Dolby Atmos - Only worth it with 4K Blu-ray?

RayP

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I've realised I can add Dolby Atmos to my 5.1 system with the addition of two Kef R50 speakers and changing my Yamaha RX-A3010 AV amp for an RX-A3060.

However, I'm wondering if Atmos can only deliver with suitable encoded 4K Blu-ray DVDs. Is that the case or can it also successfully manipulate a 5.1 signal from Sky Q or Blu-ray DVDs?

I've read the Atmos article but it wasn't clear what media you would need.
 
It can matrix any sound format to Atmos.
I'm currently watching Saving Private Ryan and it sounds awesome up mixed to Atmos.
 
Thanks Racquel, that's helpful. Otherwise it would have very limited appeal. You watching Blu-ray?

What type of Atmos speakers do you have? In-ceiling or upfiring?
 
Thanks Racquel, that's helpful. Otherwise it would have very limited appeal. You watching Blu-ray?

What type of Atmos speakers do you have? In-ceiling or upfiring?
I've been experimenting with matrixing 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 to Atmos for a few days now. Yesterday I watched Star Wars Ep. 2 and 3 and both were amazing.
I moved my two surround back speakers from my 7.1 system and mounted them on my ceiling.
 
Hey Ray. I'm currently loving (and I do mean LOVING) Atmos via current regular 1080p BDs and UHD BDs. I keep my Dolby Surround Upmixer permanently on so I'm getting matrixed 7.2.4 from all BDs/UHDs.

I've upgraded to UHD solely to access the Atmos soundtracks that aren't available on the same 1080p BD - my display is a regular 1080p PJ, but the difference in sound from a full on Atmos track (my AVR doesn't do DTS:X as it's too old [emoji22] ) is well worth it.

I'm a full on 3D nerd but the minute I heard Gravity in Atmos, where the 2D/Atmos version is superior to the 3D/regular 5.1 soundtrack, I knew I was sold!
 
Just to add that it is not just 4k UHD Blu Ray Discs that have Atmos or DTS: X encoded content. Some standard 1080p Blu Rays also have Atmos / DTS: X tracks. They are more prevalent on the 4k versions though.

However, yes the upmixers can work very well. I've not come across very many instances at all where the upmixer did a really bad job. Typically it works very well for movies / tv. Less so in my experience for 2 channel music. Others seem to have reported good results with proper 5.1 concert soundtracks so if you have a few properly encoded concert Blu Rays you could even get good mileage out of the upmixers there too.

However swapping to a new Yamaha RX-A3060 is a pretty hefty expense for Atmos if you are a little uncertain as to the benefits of immersive audio. If that is the only reason for the upgrade I'd probably try to grab a Atmos demo first before shelling out that kind of money.........unless the cost to you isn't a big deal of course ;).
 
Get a Marantz 7010 at around £799 its a reasonably cheap way to get into Atmos/DTS X and is a fantastic avr for the money.
 
I've been experimenting with matrixing 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 to Atmos for a few days now. Yesterday I watched Star Wars Ep. 2 and 3 and both were amazing.
I moved my two surround back speakers from my 7.1 system and mounted them on my ceiling.

Ceiling speakers are not an option for me. Cutting holes in lounge ceiling and horrendous wiring routing make it a big no-no. That's why I'm interested in the R50s.
 
Hey Ray. I'm currently loving (and I do mean LOVING) Atmos via current regular 1080p BDs and UHD BDs. I keep my Dolby Surround Upmixer permanently on so I'm getting matrixed 7.2.4 from all BDs/UHDs.

Is the upmixer a separate box to your AVR?

I've upgraded to UHD solely to access the Atmos soundtracks that aren't available on the same 1080p BD - my display is a regular 1080p PJ, but the difference in sound from a full on Atmos track (my AVR doesn't do DTS:X as it's too old [emoji22] ) is well worth it.

I'm a full on 3D nerd but the minute I heard Gravity in Atmos, where the 2D/Atmos version is superior to the 3D/regular 5.1 soundtrack, I knew I was sold!

So there are two versions of Gravity - one with Atmos and one without. How confusing is that? It also suggests that Atmos can be provided on BD disks and not just UHD.
 
Just to add that it is not just 4k UHD Blu Ray Discs that have Atmos or DTS: X encoded content. Some standard 1080p Blu Rays also have Atmos / DTS: X tracks. They are more prevalent on the 4k versions though.

Gravity appears to be one example but looking at the versions on sale at Amazon I can't see mention of Atmos in the specs.

However, yes the upmixers can work very well. I've not come across very many instances at all where the upmixer did a really bad job. Typically it works very well for movies / tv. Less so in my experience for 2 channel music. Others seem to have reported good results with proper 5.1 concert soundtracks so if you have a few properly encoded concert Blu Rays you could even get good mileage out of the upmixers there too.

By upmixers do you mean a separate box or something integrated into a 4K AVR? I really wouldn't want a separate box. I would also use it purely for films. As a former hi-fi enthusiast I'll only listen to music in stereo and in direct mode.

However swapping to a new Yamaha RX-A3060 is a pretty hefty expense for Atmos if you are a little uncertain as to the benefits of immersive audio. If that is the only reason for the upgrade I'd probably try to grab a Atmos demo first before shelling out that kind of money.........unless the cost to you isn't a big deal of course ;).

I'll certainly be having demos of Atmos before making any decision. What prompted me becoming interested was the upward-firing R50 from KEF. Those would sit quite nicely on my B&W front pair. And before I moved to an AVR I had Audiolab 8000C/P pre-power amps so wanted an AVR amp that would do the rest of my system justice. The RX-A3010 has done that so the 3060 seems a logical choice.
 
Is the upmixer a separate box to your AVR?

So there are two versions of Gravity - one with Atmos and one without. How confusing is that? It also suggests that Atmos can be provided on BD disks and not just UHD.

Yeah, the upmixer is built into the AVR - its like a DSP mode, you engage it as a mode and it stays on, upmixing all sources until you flick it off or engage another mode. Before this, I never bothered with any DSP modes at all, preferring like you to just listen to the 'pure' track on the disc.....but the Dolby Upmixer is so darn good that I leave it on for everything (including my Xbox sessions): its like it literally just lifts a layer of sound 'up' from the standard 5.1/7.1 core tracks - obviously not as good as a proper Atmos track, but it does enough to add an extra something to the soundtracks.

And yes again, I'm afraid - two versions of Gravity (3 if you count the 3D one as well! There's a thread in the BD forum specifically about the Atmos version - its tricky to find apparently, but some one posted a link to it). Its the way of the world though isn't it - double and triple dipping to get the best transfer (even now companies like Arrow are re-releasing older films with improved 4K scans!), the best extras and now the best sound (although luckily, we've not had too many regular BDs re-released just with Atmos tracks - in fact, apart from Gravity I can only think of the US versions of Leon, Fifth Element and BSs Dracula that have done this). But....c'est la vie! I have been wary of upgrading to new transfers before, but some of them really are night and day better (the Arrow re-release of Dario Argento's Deep Red for example looks so much better than the previous version projected on a 92" screen its untrue).

As to Atmos/DTS:X itself, like you said I can't recommend enough getting to a decent demo room and listening to it - for some its a night and day improvement, for others its not. So before splashing the cash on a new AVR, defo check it out to make sure you're one of the ones who love it!!!
 
I've just had a quick flick through my Blu Ray collection (non -4k as I don't yet have a 4k tv) and Jupiter Ascending, Mad Max, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtues, Batman vs Superman & Terminator Genisys all have Atmos tracks included. I'm sure there are others - those were just the first 5 I came to!

As Coz said, the Dolby upmixer and DTS upmixers are part of the standard modes available on Atmos / DTS : X capable receivers. Certainly the Yamaha RX-A3060 will have both. They were added through firmware updates a while back for most of last years receivers. I think this years will have them included as standard.

The Yamaha RX-A3060 is a great receiver by all accounts. I had a Yamaha RX-A2040 a while back and was very pleased with it. If you are able to demo I would also consider the higher end Marantz & Denon models which will be in a similar if not lower price range than the Yamaha. They'll probably sound a bit warmer so it depends if you like that or not. Also, Audyssey (the Room EQ for Denon & Maarntz) has it's own slight quirks to get used to but I've found it to be at least on par with Yamaha's YPAO. There are some great deals around on last years models though so it could well be worth seeing what is still available. It doesn't appear as though this year's models are a major improvement over last years in the majority of circumstances but they are a LOT more expensive comparatively!
 
One other thing to mention re Atmos/DTS:X, I know I've banged about getting a demo.....but after spending the best part of 2 months getting my garage converted, having 7.2.4 installed, and FINALLY (god it seemed like an age!) sitting down with Transformers: Age of Extinction, Expendables 3 and TNMT on good old regular BD.....it left me a bit underwhelmed. I expected far more pronounced overheads, far more spot effects, just far more of everything from above me.......

Disappointingly, I watched the next few non-Atmos BDs and something just sounded.....missing. Switching back to an Atmos title (the mighty John Wick) and it was like the sound was just turbo-charged. A combination of my calibration being done technically correct (with a SPL), leaving the surrounds and overheads a tad quiet for my liking, and me not expecting the Atmos 'bubble' - the fact that Atmos really does create a 3D bubble round you: less jolting spot effects, more immersion into the soundtrack (standing up, the overheads are almost always in constant use, mostly for the score and ambience, plus those lovely spot effects).

A couple of tweaks with my set up (turning the overheads and surrounds up - what can I say, I'm shallow!!! :cool: ) and me getting used the multi-dimensionality of these new fangled soundtracks and I'm now a massive convert.

So even with the demo, it might be worth checking out an film soundtrack that you know well in vanilla 5.1/7.1 that also has an Atmos soundtrack available and do an A/B comparison, as there is a danger that a pure listen to it won't meet expectations.

Sorry for the rambling - I've become a bit of an evangelist about these new soundtracks!!!!
 
Yeah, the upmixer is built into the AVR - its like a DSP mode, you engage it as a mode and it stays on, upmixing all sources until you flick it off or engage another mode. Before this, I never bothered with any DSP modes at all, preferring like you to just listen to the 'pure' track on the disc.....but the Dolby Upmixer is so darn good that I leave it on for everything (including my Xbox sessions): its like it literally just lifts a layer of sound 'up' from the standard 5.1/7.1 core tracks - obviously not as good as a proper Atmos track, but it does enough to add an extra something to the soundtracks.

Ah so you're using one of those many DSP modes available on AVRs. I've rarely used those preferring to take the 'pure' signal from the disk. Something to investigate when I have a demo. Probably at RS or Superfi. I see you're located in Stockport. I'm just down the road in Cheadle Hulme. So the AVR is giving you a sort of pseudo-Atmos effect then? Am I right in assuming you have ceiling speakers and not upward-firing? Did you consider those?

And yes again, I'm afraid - two versions of Gravity (3 if you count the 3D one as well! There's a thread in the BD forum specifically about the Atmos version - its tricky to find apparently, but some one posted a link to it). Its the way of the world though isn't it - double and triple dipping to get the best transfer ....

What an absolute dog's dinner! If Atmos can't even be shown as a feature when choosing a disk how do they expect the format to sell? :(

As to Atmos/DTS:X itself, like you said I can't recommend enough getting to a decent demo room and listening to it - for some its a night and day improvement, for others its not. So before splashing the cash on a new AVR, defo check it out to make sure you're one of the ones who love it!!![/QUOTE]

Demo will make a decision easy. Plus how well any AVR can deliver a pseudo-ATMOS sound.

Thanks, you've been very helpful. :thumbsup:
 
Anytime Ray - yeah, I'm in Marple and I got all my kit from Richer Sounds in Stockport (who were very helpful, as are the guys in Superfi just a few doors up on Hillgate). As it was part of a full on garage conversion, I didn't need to consider upfirers so 4 ceiling speakers it was.

Good luck with the demo (the shops'll sort you out but if you're struggling I'm sure I could arrange for you to pop round and have a listen to my admittedly budget kit! Any excuse to disappear into the garage for a few hours........;)) and let us know your thoughts on it all :smashin:
 
I've just had a quick flick through my Blu Ray collection (non -4k as I don't yet have a 4k tv) and Jupiter Ascending, Mad Max, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtues, Batman vs Superman & Terminator Genisys all have Atmos tracks included. I'm sure there are others - those were just the first 5 I came to!
Thanks. Just checked my meagre collection of BD and none have it as far as I can see. I didn't have a microscope handy though for reading the tiny text. :(

The Yamaha RX-A3060 is a great receiver by all accounts. I had a Yamaha RX-A2040 a while back and was very pleased with it. If you are able to demo I would also consider the higher end Marantz & Denon models which will be in a similar if not lower price range than the Yamaha. They'll probably sound a bit warmer so it depends if you like that or not.

When I auditioned the Yamaha I also listened to the Pioneer (similarly priced) using my own B&W CM4s. The Pioneer was a little bright for my taste. I used to have a Denon AVC-A10SE until 2012 when it finally gave up the ghost. I do like the sound the Yamaha produces with my B&Ws though.

There are some great deals around on last years models though so it could well be worth seeing what is still available. It doesn't appear as though this year's models are a major improvement over last years in the majority of circumstances but they are a LOT more expensive comparatively!

I bought my 3010 in 2012 when the 3020 had just come out so saved a load on that. But now that 4K is around and there are no more foreseeable sound formats this AVR should be my last assuming it is reliable. The retailers seem to have fixed prices but depending on whether I like what I hear with an Atmos demo I'll try my bartering skills especially if the KEFs are part of the deal.

Do you have upfiring or downfiring speakers?
 
Get a pair of R50s, correctly position and configured they add a big dimension to the front soundstage. There are plenty of 1080p blu ray discs available, the last one I bought was Star Trek Beyond. The two pseudo upmixers are also very good, that Dolby Surround and DTS Neural X and again add that extra dimension to your sound.

However don't expect to be bombarded with sound effects bouncing off the ceiling. When individual object based sounds move above you, as intended by the sound direction, you will hear them. What you will get with the R50s is a bubble of sound and personally I find that very satisfying. If you want to hear just how good that can be then you must buy the Atmos encoded Everest.
 
Anytime Ray - yeah, I'm in Marple and I got all my kit from Richer Sounds in Stockport (who were very helpful, as are the guys in Superfi just a few doors up on Hillgate). As it was part of a full on garage conversion, I didn't need to consider upfirers so 4 ceiling speakers it was.

Good luck with the demo (the shops'll sort you out but if you're struggling I'm sure I could arrange for you to pop round and have a listen to my admittedly budget kit! Any excuse to disappear into the garage for a few hours........;)) and let us know your thoughts on it all :smashin:

Thanks Coz. How handy being able to convert a garage. I have one too but it has to remain as a garage. I always like to do my homework first so I'm fully prepared when I walk into the shops. Having two 50 yards apart in Stockport is very useful.

Your offer is very kind. let me see how I get on with an up-firing demo on non-Atmos media. I think that will be key to whether I go down that route or not.
 
Get a pair of R50s, correctly position and configured they add a big dimension to the front soundstage. There are plenty of 1080p blu ray discs available, the last one I bought was Star Trek Beyond. The two pseudo upmixers are also very good, that Dolby Surround and DTS Neural X and again add that extra dimension to your sound.

I'm quite fortunate that I'm able to position my CM4s so they're well away from side and back walls so get a quality soundstage from them. The rears are right behind me and wall-mounted and with the sound correctly balanced do provide a good all-round level of immersion. It sounds like AVRs have come on a long way since 2011 when the 3010 came out.

However don't expect to be bombarded with sound effects bouncing off the ceiling. When individual object based sounds move above you, as intended by the sound direction, you will hear them. What you will get with the R50s is a bubble of sound and personally I find that very satisfying. If you want to hear just how good that can be then you must buy the Atmos encoded Everest.

I appreciate the effect is subtle. I wouldn't expect to hear a great deal coming from above except when the situation demands it. You only tend to notice how much extra speakers add when you remove them and the sound becomes very one dimensional.

One thing not mentioned so far. I subscribe to Sky Movies via Sky Q. How do those sound in a pseudo-Atmos mode?
 
Do you have upfiring or downfiring speakers?

Hi Ray,

I personally have a bit of a hybrid setup. I have smallish Dali Fazon satellite speakers wall mounted near the ceiling and angled quite sharply down and towards the listening point. Not as good as ceiling speakers but they do give a good approximation of having sound coming from above and then panning forward to back and left to right where appropriate. Like you cutting holes in the ceiling was a bit of a non-starter!

I'm very happy with the effect though. I've played around with running them as height speakers and as ceiling speakers and actually prefer having them setup in the receiver as though they were ceiling speakers. I've not had a chance to hear up-firing speakers but many people seem to be very happy with them.

You're lucky to have two stores nearby. Hopefully you'll be able to get a good demo!! :smashin:
 
Get a pair of R50s, correctly position and configured they add a big dimension to the front soundstage. There are plenty of 1080p blu ray discs available, the last one I bought was Star Trek Beyond. The two pseudo upmixers are also very good, that Dolby Surround and DTS Neural X and again add that extra dimension to your sound.

However don't expect to be bombarded with sound effects bouncing off the ceiling. When individual object based sounds move above you, as intended by the sound direction, you will hear them. What you will get with the R50s is a bubble of sound and personally I find that very satisfying. If you want to hear just how good that can be then you must buy the Atmos encoded Everest.

Fully agree with this. Even with my lesser performing Onkyo upfirers the difference isn't so much about feeling that the sound is coming from overhead as a fullness in the sound you're experiencing compared to a non Atmos track.

Along with Everest I'd respectfully add 13 Hours, which has a stellar audio mix IMHO.
 
Thanks everyone. Really used info gleaned from this discussion.

However no one has mentioned Sky and its UHD service. Is it reasonable to expect that their UHD films would also include the Atmos channels?

Having recently upgraded to their Sky Q service it doesn't seem unreasonable that if Atmos is available on the 4K Blu-ray DVD version of Everest it would also be available on the Sky broadcast.
 
Thanks everyone. Really used info gleaned from this discussion.

However no one has mentioned Sky and its UHD service. Is it reasonable to expect that their UHD films would also include the Atmos channels?

Having recently upgraded to their Sky Q service it doesn't seem unreasonable that if Atmos is available on the 4K Blu-ray DVD version of Everest it would also be available on the Sky broadcast.

BT are the only broadcaster using Atmos currently (and that's for football). That isn't to say Sky won't do it in the future.
 
The first broadcast am aware of is BT, announcing Atmos with its 4k live broadcasts of Premier ship, starting January. Analysts consider Sky will be forced to follow, but heard nothing.
 
If BT are going to provide Atmos on their sports channel I think it's only a matter of time before Sky do with the amount of media they have that can take advantage of it.
 

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