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Does the Denon AVR-3802 offer 'noticable' sound inprovement over the AVR-2802?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by tk2001, Apr 8, 2002.

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  1. tk2001

    tk2001
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    A friend of mine is thinking of getting the AVR-2802 but is also interested in the 3202 but doesn't wish to spend the extra money if he doesn't have to.

    Does the AVR-3202 offer a 'noticable' inprovement in sound over the AVR-2802 to justify the extra £100?

    Or are the improvements just in the extra power output and extra features?
     
  2. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    I think you need to demo both on the same system and make up your own mind.
     
  3. MartinCo

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    its more like £150+ price difference btw.

    I compared both and couldnt see the difference..
    very very minor... a few threads on the diffs if you search.

    I went with the 2802 and spent the difference on myself.
     
  4. Craig_Nike

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    Id like to hearn more peoples opinions on this as well.

    Why do people come and say - go and listen for yourself - and not offer any more advice or opinions ?

    Obviously anybody can go and listen, thats the easy part. The reason us newbies are on this forum is to get opinions from more experienced people on what THEY thought. Before or after we go and listen.

    Surely quite a few people have made this exact comparison and have an opinion on it.

    As for my opinon (in my limited experience) - I dont think it would be a big enough difference to the ear. But certainly the extra features look impressive!
     
  5. MartinCo

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    Craig, there's really not much difference at all.

    the sound is very very similar.. if not the same between 5.1 & stereo sources...
    both were infinitely better than my previous Sony amp,
    and the Sony 1070 I tested separately a few weeks before.

    DPII makes a huge difference with both on tv/video sources.

    as for the extra features... like what?


    there isnt that much feature-wise different either..

    bit of extra power (15w), 2 rear centre outputs instead of 1,
    and a slightly better remote..(I already have a Pronto so).

    the only real difference is that anyone has been able to point out for me, is the Denon 3802 has 7.1 input rather than the 5.1 on the 2802... but both are ready for DVD-A & SACD.
    a pretty small difference you would agree.
     
  6. tk2001

    tk2001
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    Surely for the extra £150 there must be a difference in sound quality. Denon simply can't justify the extra £150 purely on extra features & inputs can they?

    BTW TO ALL AVR-3202 OWNERS: why aren't you defending your amp?
     
  7. MartinCo

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    both are great amps... just depends on what you want to spend.

    £500 is a nice round figure, so below this is a pretty good starting point for most people... plus other makes are muscling in a bit more now.. Marantz in particular... (soon to be the same company?)

    but as for a "noticeable" sound improvement.. I dont think there is... very very slight..

    both have pretty much everything you could want.. every sound format, setting, feature.. should be able to cope with everything for the next 2-3 years.

    I spent the difference on my dvd player and speakers to get a more balanced system.
     
  8. NickBull

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    £150 would pay for the extra watts and the extra channel of amplificatiuon.

    I listened to both, the difference was lost on me, so I opted for the 2802. I ordered one from Empire direct for £492 inc postage. Had it a week and I am very impressed.

    It might be only 90 watts per channel but in comparison to Sony STRDB925 I had before, it has a lot mor power (sony 100 watts allegedly).

    I now have £150 to spend on DVD's etc plus a great amp to boot (not literally of course, I beleive it invalidates the warranty!)

    Nick
     
  9. Bonesy

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    me and my mate got 2802s, which do improve on our old sonys, and PLII is great.
    For us, justification of paying over £500 for a 3802 wasn't there.

    the 2802 remote is hilariously big, and looks 10 years old. but I've got used to it now.
    I have blown my speakers with it, so I probably could do with a bit more power, although it certainly is loud.
    and when I bought it, I thought I was wasting money on all the connectors on the back that I never thought I'd use. Now I have a projector, and want to 2802 to do s-video and component switching, I am now thanking my lucky stars.

    I agree with nickbull, the £150 you are paying is for bigger and more amps, and the different remote.

    Ironically, I now could justify buying a 3802, just for more power (my lounge is big). actually, fancy buying a 2nd hand 2802? 4 months old?
     
  10. MartinCo

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    Nick, having had the Sony myself, I know it was 100w rated in stereo, probably something like 65W in surround sound.
    both of these figures are rigged anyway, so more likely the Sony 925 was more like 85 stereo/60w surround in reality...

    this explains why the 2802 has more power... its 90w rating is accurate.
     
  11. damtom1

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    Bonesy....What sort of money would you want for the Denon?I,m thinking of buying one or maybe the Marantz.
     
  12. Bonesy

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    blimey, not sure, only first thought of selling it earlier. give me a day or two and I'll post in the right forum, and pm you.
     
  13. Timh

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    I also own the Sony 925, I remember when it was tested, the review said it actually only outputted 48 watts per channel in surround mode. Like many others I am comtemplating upgrading to the Denon AVR-2802, not just for all the extra surround options but also for componant switching, I expect it would blow the socks of my Sony :D

    p.s Can DTS-ES matrix decoding be used with 5.1 DTS, so the rear centre can be used.
     
  14. MartinCo

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    Tim... not quite sure exactly what you mean by this..

    the 2802 can do DTS-ES matrix & discrete... ie with rear centre output.
    you can also apply the effect to normal 5.1 DVDs, both DD & DTS so the rear speakers are used all the time.

    and yes... the Denon 2802 does sound miles better than the Sony 925. the Sony did me proud, but was pretty average for stereo.
     
  15. Timh

    Timh
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    Martin

    That answers my question :)

    Cheers
     
  16. Craig_Nike

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    I'll let you guys get away with comparing a current 2802 with 6.1 to your old Sony 925's once - but not many times.

    Sure, its OK to say the new Denon is better than your old 925 Sony (which has been replaced 4 times now), but dont keep saying it like a direct comparison between the 2 is fair ?

    I'm sure if compared the 5 yr old Denon with a 1070 there would be a difference too.......not to mention the placebo effect of WANTING to LOVE your new pride and joy - no matter if it is 5% or 50% better.
     
  17. MartinCo

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    Craig, fair point, they aren't directly comparable as models now, though they did cost me about the same money 2-3 years apart... so comparable for me!

    as is, I think Tim and others were wondering more about the comparision since me & NickBull had gone the same upgrade route.

    before buying, I did test a Sony 1070 out at the same time as the Denon.

    both were very good for movies... not much in it. the Sony sounds good with action movies.., but not as good with music/ concert footage. the Denon was more even with everything. the Denon had PLII which was a big plus - huge difference there, and support for all the EX/ES 6.1 formats.

    the Sony 1070 was very average playing CDs... absolutely slaughtered by the Denon in this area.
     
  18. NickBull

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    I wasn't meaning a direct comparison, I was just trying to highlight the power output. Those extra watts certainly make it sound more assured.

    It's plenty powerfull enough for my 18 foot by 10 foot room, even with 10 foot ceilings I couldn't listen to it at full whack.

    It's an upgrade, same price, but newer technology and i am very please. My main point is that if you don't need extra power then the 2802 sounded very similar to my ears. The 2 rear centres didn't make any difference in my opinion, and a single centre is easier to place in my room.

    Both are great amps and it's definately worth shopping round for bargains.

    The stereo reproduction is what swung it over an equivelent sony! I couldn't aford an Arcam which is supposed to be best in stereo.

    On that point too, I still prefer music in plain old stereo, PLII music and Neo 6 Music are ok, but steroe seems to have more authority!
     
  19. MartinCo

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    similar here... 13 x 23 ft room filled with no problems.

    you can always wire the 2 rear speakers in serial if need be, even with one rear centre output (recommended by Mission).

    agreed with the prologic II and neo6 for music... very thin sound.

    am I the only one here who like the 5 channel stereo mode?
    I run in stereo for proper listening, but the 5 channel option is pretty good... nice wide soundfield with none of the thinness of prologicII& neo. also very good for when you have people around and dont want to blast the poor sods next to the front speakers.
     
  20. NickBull

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    The 5/6 ch stereo (is that an oxymoron?) is good, same weighty sound as stereo but a bit more dispersed.

    I like things simple, PLII is great for the odd non 5.1 DVD, Blade runner, Dark City etc sound vastly better than normal PL.

    I avoid any processing on DD or DTS, no DSP modes at all, this gives the best sound I think.

    The Dynamic compression settings are good when I'm watching late at night and Girlfriend is in bed. The denon seems to have very high peaks, it seems a lot more dynamic than the Sony, probably due to updated amplification and power suppiy.
     
  21. Timh

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    From the sounds of it PLII is pretty good, but I haven't read many comments on the 6.1 sound from descrete, matrix & EX, what are your comments on these sound formats, are they much better than 5.1 sound formats?

    Cheers
     
  22. NickBull

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    6.1 does create a more involving rear sound stage. It's good to have but I don't think I'd miss it if I hadn't needed to upgrade my old amp.

    I sometimes leave it on by mistake when listening to 5.1 coded sources, it still seems to sound pretty good.

    Haven't had that much of a play with it all yet, someone else will probably have a better opinion of it but at least my reply will get this thread back to the top of the page!

    Nick
     
  23. Timh

    Timh
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    Thanks Nick :)
    Would anyone else like to comment?

    Cheers
     

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