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does my friend know what hes talkin about??

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by twinny82, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. twinny82

    twinny82
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    my friend keeps sayin to me i will not be able to get my system sounding as good as his he has a kenwood hifi from about 10 years ago with some mission 780s and a cheap kef sub he says because not many systems these days have graphic equalizers so u cant play with the sound does he know what he is on about up to now i only have some quad 11L im lookin for an amp and cd player i have about £600 to spend on each any ideas as im new to this?? :lease:
     
  2. GrahamC

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    No he doesn't know what he's talking about. :rotfl:
     
  3. roversd1

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    Tell him that the TAG McLaren Audio AV32R Dual Processor has the equivalent of a 20,000 slider control 'graphic equaliser'....
     
  4. Crustyloafer

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    Once you get your cd and amp together your system is likely to significantly outperform his. He hasn't a clue what he is talking about.
     
  5. twinny82

    twinny82
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    obviously ur all gonna know more than him but he says hes heard one of his mates systems and he has all cyrus stuff and some mission 782s i dont know that much yet but from what i know cyrus are really good and he says the it all sounds a bit flat not as good as his kenwood iv heard his kenwood and it does sound good once again does he just have no idea what he is talkin about??
     
  6. GrahamC

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    Just because he has his set up the way he likes the sound .... to sound, doesn't mean it's right. You can paint a horse pink and you will still have a horse but it's SO wrong... :cool:
     
  7. twinny82

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    but i would have though the cyrus would totally put his to shame he said its because you cant set it up like his kenwood because it doesnt have a graphic equalizer so you cant tweak the sound like u can with his is he right??
     
  8. GrahamC

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    Sorry I'm not going to answer you anymore. You asked the question and I've given you my opinion. Equilized sound from anything is not as good as a natural life like sound from good equipment. Equalisers distort/shape sound from what the equipment produces which should indecate that the equipment is not producing an natural/satisfactory sound in the first place.
     
  9. jw250

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    No, he is not right at all. Graphic equalizers add no quality to a system at all. In fact, in true hifi terms, they reduce quality - the more devices the signal travels through between the source (CD say) and the speakers will cause 'loss' in detail and quality - its unavoidable - all graphic equalisers do is offer the ability to artificially 'boost' or 'flatten' certain elements of the sound. It has no bearing on the quality whatsoever, other than interfering with it - reducing it. The mission 780s that your friend has are fine speakers, the 782s are simply a floorstanding version - a bit more bass, slighty different mid-range. Your friend uses a sub to get the lower bass instead which may be more 'bassy' (in terms of quantity) than the 782s, which I bet is the reason he thinks they sound 'flat'. More likely that they don't go 'boom'. When you get your set-up add a small REL Quake subwoofer or better to your Quad 11Ls and they will sound far far better then the Kenwood set-up (and set it to a low level - you want 'punch' in your bass, not 'boom')

    Graphic equalisers really are just a gimmick - in a recording studio where you have hundreds of adjustments to make the master copy the way they want it to sound on the CD then fine but the rubbish you get on the high-street electronics do nothing that bass and treble adjustments don't do. Buy a copy of What HiFi, it has a good educational bit at the back which will teach you some important basics about how to set-up a HiFi that suits your taste. If your friend is happy with his hifi then great, but if you use your own ears and do your own homework on hifi then you'll find that his system is not the way to go. Good luck.
     
  10. twinny82

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    thanks alot i understand alot better now i knew it couldnt be right about the equalizer or else they would still be gettin used just needed someone to explain it :thumbsup:
     
  11. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    I totally agree with what jw250 has said about graphic (un)equalisers!
    I have never had a graphic EQ on any opf my separates, and when I did have it on an all-in-one system it was kept flat (ie unused!).
    I am a part time sound engineer and do use a graphic EQ unit for live gigs, but this is a 48 band EQ unit that does offer real advantages with reduceing boomy bass and making vocals stand out. IMO an 8 band (or whatever) EQ on a HiFi is just a gloryfied version of bass & treble controls that in many cases make the sound worse, not better.

    Mark.
     
  12. stevos

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    How you expect a song to sound is subjective, we all have our own ideas of what makes a good track.

    If you want to hear the music how the studio intended (mixed by pro's) then there is no need for a EQ.

    However, a lot of people don't, and want either a lot more bass (your friend by the sounds of things) less bass or more mid range.

    So does a EQ make the music sound better, well that is up to you. It will however move away from how the music is meant to sound.

    If you have small speakers and but the bass right up, are you really increasing the depth of the bass or just making what you do have sound loader. Well simple physics will answer this.

    I remember a Clarkson program where he compared a Japanese hifi (lots of buttons to treak the sound) with a British one (no buttons). He said if you play with the Japanese hifi all day you may just about get it to sound as good as the british one. I agree with this opinion.
     
  13. superpixel

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    There's no reason you can't use an outboard equaliser in a hi-fi setup, budget professional equipment is no longer tat - they have excellent noise levels, quality components and have probably been used on all of your favourite CDs. I use my mixer as a pre-amp most of the time because even it's basic EQ is essential for my setup and my record collection, and because there is absolutely no subjective degradation through my budget 12-channel studio mixer compared to my once £1100 Audiolab pre-amp (through 2xAudiolab 8000P and Kef Reference 3 speakers).

    Anyone who's recorded and mastered audio will know they are used at all stages, poncey audiophiles worried about introducing distortion are worrying about 40 steps too long down the road.

    A Behringer or Alesis parametric EQ at around £200 street price will make your friend greener than his Kenwood level bars - I'd use a cheap Sony CD player as transport, the equaliser as DAC, then buy £900 worth of the best quality amplification for the Quads.
     
  14. stevos

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    Sounds like good advice to me.

    One of the reasons i wouldn't even consider it, is that it would be far to much effort. If you want to do it properly, you would have to adjust the 12 channels for each track / cd you listened to.

    Can't be having with that.

    For my money a decent hifi is the best compromise.
     
  15. twinny82

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    dunno what to think i like the sound of my mates nice bass from the sub and the treble sounds real nice and on songs with guitars on you can hear it really well u can hear the finger on the strings i just wanna beat his system with mine lol ;)
     
  16. Sniper

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    Buy 2 eqs, no 3 - 1 for each ch and a final one for both! :rotfl: That way you'll have 3x your friend's performace! (just kidding - DON'T DO IT!)

    Look - let your friend be, congratulate him on his unbeatable sound. He's one lucky man, as he's so happy with his sound he won't be upgrading anytime soon.

    As far as where to put your money, there are too many answers! I would get a a pre & a decent hi-current amp and match them to an £600 player (many good ones around). Then again others will suggest differently!

    Enjoy!
     
  17. Harry T2

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    I will join in the chorus, which says your friend does not know what he is talking about.

    For the sake of this argument does your friend also drive the “best” car, know the “best” restaurant, drink the “best” water etc.

    What your friend has done is manipulate the sound of his system to cater for “his” personal tastes and potentially, issues with his components and room acoustics at the expense of introducing some signal degradation.

    There is nothing wrong with this, however to say it is the “best” does not reflect the he has configured his system for his own personal tastes and situation.

    From a purist’s point of view, if a flaw in my system began to decrease my listening enjoyment, I would attack the situation by what I thought was causing the problem - whether that is a component, placement or room acoustic issue.

    From a radical’s point of view, the same thing may be done with an equaliser. This, however want address issues that I may have (or others would find) with the sound stage, dynamics, attack and other that hi-fi enthusiasts terms used to describe aspects of a system.

    With regard to advising you on components to “beat” or friends system, I wouldn’t recommend you spending such a significant amount on your first system. It is very hard with people recommending second hand kit. The reality is that you are taking this advice on blind faith. Yes, it will drive your pound further, but it may not necessarily give you the best result to cater for your tastes and situation. IMHO, second hand becomes an option as your awareness and appreciation of your system develops and you have a core system that components can be introduced and compared against with your previously known standard.

    When it becomes time to advise my children on purchasing their first system, I would recommend they look at a system at or slightly above their level of appreciation. Even if they could pay for a Ferrari, they wouldn’t have the level of understanding or ability to appreciate what a Ferrari is capable of.

    You already have a fine building block with the Quad’s, add to that (as an indication of the level I would be looking at) an Arcam CD73T CD Player, a Rotel RA-02 amp, some stands etc, and you will have a system that is capable of reproducing the “fingers on the strings” and should give you many hours of enjoyment. It would allow you to listen to the system as a whole before purchase (minus your room) as many dealers stock Arcam + Rotel + Quad. It also provides a core system that will benefit from improvements in any of the components.

    I think I should stop now, as I sound like a boring old f**t who doesn’t listen to the music, but will simply critique the sound.
     
  18. binbag

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    Take the music you like best on your friends system into a shop that will let you play or set up a demo for you. Tell them what your speakers are and about the room it'll be set up in. Listen to the advice they offer. Then let your ears and your heart do the rest - when you hear 'it' you'll know.

    BTW Don't worry too much about beating your friend - he hasn't impressed anybody here.
     
  19. mjn

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    Well, it does depend on how many LED's his Eq has...... :rotfl: :D :devil:
     
  20. twinny82

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    :rotfl: funny mjn but i am just learnin thanks for all the help everyone i knew my mate couldnt be right but i gotta be honest it does sound ok any way im sure i bit more readin up on here and i will be on the right track
     
  21. ChrisNic

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    It may sound ok but have you gone to a decent hifi shop and listened to a "proper" system. Im have every faith that it would blow your mates system into the water. Hey how about you take him with you!
     
  22. twinny82

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    well the is a few ppl heard another persons system who lives near and he has all cyrus stuff good cables and some mission 782s and every 1 who has heard both says the kenwood sounds better iv never heard it for myself yet but arnt cyrus meant to be really good i just dunno how that many ppl can say a kenwood hifi from about 10yrs ago can sound better than cyrus setup??????
     
  23. Radiohead

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    Do they all drive Saxo's and Corsa's as well by any chance?
     
  24. Knightshade

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    I'd beware making comments like 'It can't possibly be better' I have a very good friend who built his system over the years. It looks like it belongs in a rubbish tip (I believe it even has some parts from Philips)It certainly wouldn't take pride of place in a living room but the sound is undeniably up there with the best. Years of modifying and tweaking has brought his music system close to audio nirvana. You wouldn't give him more than £50 for the whole lot, until you heard it.....
    If your friend really has something special then fair play. Doesn't mean you can't get better though..... :devil:
    Patience and trial and error usually pay off in the end. Careful matching of equipment is better than having expensive badly matched equipment.
     
  25. Mr Good

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    I've never heard so much bollo(ks in all my life! Is your friend in his mid fiftys, collects beer mats and visits Meatloaf forums???
     
  26. Knightshade

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    Afraid I'm not in the habit of listening to b*******s. I prefer music.......
     
  27. gerbilly

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    With excellent speakers and with 600 quid to spend on a cd player and for your amp, you will blow his junk out the water mate. :D
     

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