Does Mirrorless match DSLR these days?

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by CFC1, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. CFC1

    CFC1
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    I'm looking at a Fuji X-E2 mirrorless camera at the minute, after a woman at my camera club bought one last month and has subsequently flogged her Nikon D600 and lenses. I was talking to her on Wednesday night and she reckons that the files that the X-E2 produced were as good as, or even better than her Nikon D600, hence her decision to sell it.

    I have been given the go ahead by her indoors to spend a few quid. Initially, I thought that I would "upgrade" my Canon 7d and get a foot on the full frame ladder with a 6D. However, after putting it through its paces last week, the 6d feels physically small in my hands and that ruled it out. I tried the 5dmkiii and that fits like a glove, but I couldn't justify blowing my load on that. :blush:

    Anyhow, I'm now wondering if the Fuji X-E2 might be a contender... I am assuming that the AF won't be fast enough to keep up with any sports that I do, so would most likely keep the 7d as well.

    I would welcome any thoughts.

    Cheers

    Calvin
     
  2. twist

    twist
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    Eh? The 6d is to small so you're considering an xe2 :confused:
     
  3. CFC1

    CFC1
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    The 6d was gonna REPLACE my 7d... I meant it was too small as my sole DSLR.
    However, if I was gonna go the whole hog and go small, would the Fuji give me similar IQ as my 7d? TBH, lugging about the 7d, 2 flashguns and a bag of lenses is no fun anymore ... especially at my age (although I'm still 10 years younger than Jim!).

    Just thinking, that's all.....
     
  4. bobbymax

    bobbymax
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    Isn't everyone younger than jim? :eek::devil:
     
  5. twist

    twist
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    I see, the xe2 will offer better iq than your 7d. Not quite ff but just about the best image quality an APSC sensor can provide IMO/E.
     
  6. Killwilly

    Killwilly
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    According to Fuji's claims at Digital Photography Review, the X-E2 has the fastest AF of any camera to date and at 7 frames per second it's no slouch in that department either.
     
  7. twist

    twist
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    According to Fujis claims, dont believe their claims, in good light they are decent in tricky/slightly low light they slow right down, Olympus kills Fuji in AF speed.
     
  8. twist

    twist
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    What sort of photography will you be doing and in what light?
     
  9. snerkler

    snerkler
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    Doesn't that depend on whether it's using phase detect or contrast detect? Apparently phase detect is very fast, but contrast detect is only average. So in good light it will be very fast, in low light it won't be brilliant.
     
  10. snerkler

    snerkler
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    D'oh, beat me to it :facepalm: ;)
     
  11. twist

    twist
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    Phase detect on the Fuji works to quite low EV, contrast goes even lower. I think hybrid sensors are still a bit of a gimmick tbh. The older Fujis with CDAF are also good in decent light. The upcoming XT1 seems pretty decent in reviews but nowadays most reviews are paid advertising so until I try the camera I take their claims with a pinch of salt.
     
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  12. CFC1

    CFC1
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    A mixture of stuff.. Studio portraits, landscapes/seascapes, trips to country houses/folk museums, portraits in low light, holiday snaps, night shots, macro, sports (inc horse racing, triathlon and soon to be rugby).

    I think that ideally, I'd like to get a smaller kit. But I realise that, For complete versatility, I'm not gonna get that in the current mirrorless cameras... yet. I want to try some street photography and want something more discrete than my 7d and 15-85 combo. Initially, I was thinking of a Fuji X-100(s) but might find the fixed focal length restrictive considering the range of things that I shoot. Effectively, it would be buying it just for the odd occasion (probably very odd occasion, as I live in the countryside) that I could do some street photography... and that might not be the best investment of my funds. At the end of the day, my 7d/15-85 combo could still do the same job, only much more visible!...and I think that's my problem. I'm not totally comfortable going out into a crowd with a big camera and shooting them. Whilst not going about it in a snidy way, it would be much easier with a small camera that won't attract as much attention.

    Then, after seeing and talking to the lady at the camera club who ditched her Nikon dslr stuff for the X-E2, it got me thinking that an X-E2 with an 18-55 and 55-200 would do me, then with the addition of an 18mm f2 if necessary, for street stuff. But after trying out a X-100S on Friday, I was impressed with the optical viewfinder ... which the X-E2 doesn't have.

    Thinking about it though, with me doing sports and macro, it would make sense to keep my 7d and bag of lenses. I dunno, it's more about convenience than anything else, I suppose... and my desire to get a new toy! My head tells me that I should stick with my Canon stuff and maybe add a used X-100 (old version) for £350 or so for street stuff... but then I think about the issues with it that were resolved in the (s) version and think that I should stretch to that. But then, I get the feeling about its lack of versatility for the stuff that I shoot! ... MY HEAD HURTS!!! :(



    THANKS FOR THE REPLIES SO FAR GUYS.:thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  13. twist

    twist
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    Ive just ordered a X100s to partner my X-pro 1, having had pretty much every CSC including the A7 I settled on Fuji as an overall package, they all have strengths and weaknesses. I liked Fuji because of the high quality primes and fantastic AWB/skin tones/colour, AF isn't great though in tricky light but the sensor and handling of these cameras is what makes them so special.

    You said you were going to run the 7D alongside so you can remove a few of those requirements, mainly those that require decent AF.

    Studio - Fuji will be fine, their TTL flashes aren't great but you can trigger pretty much any off camera flash in manual with an RF602/3.

    Landcapes etc. - Fuji will be fine, especially with the 14mm or Samyang 8mm

    Country houses - Nothing moves, Fuji has fantastic Hi ISO.

    Portraits in low light - Can be tricky, are your subjects moving (kids)?

    Holiday snaps - Perfect.

    Night Shots - It locks on but again wont track moving subjects

    Macro - 60mm + close ups or Raynox, could use 7D.

    Sports - Possible in decent light but not like your 7D, so use your 7D.

    TBH, it seems a CSC to run alongside your 7D makes perfect sense. They are doing a cracking deal on Fujis at the moment. I found the X100 (I bought 3 over various FW periods) a little frustrating and the S just seems to address a few of those annoyances. It arrives tomorrow so can update you. If I were in your position though Id look at an interchangeable mirrorless, I think you'll find you will use it for more stuff than you think. In the end I sold up all my FF DSLR stuff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  14. HNM43

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    Hello,

    From what you said, you do shoot a mixture of style (which is not easy to find one camera to fit all). I came from shoot with Nikon DSLR, and have move to mirrorless, this is just my opinion, so take it however you feel:

    If I have to do a job, for sport/fast moving subject, I would pickup a DSLR (D700/D7000), this take into consideration I have not try the Fuji X-T1 or Olympus EM1. I have more confident that I would be able to get those continue focus, panning shots.

    Apart from that, I feel that for most other thing, anything between a Olympus EM5 or Fuji X-E2 will do that job.

    I started out with Olympus EM5, and it really bring back my passion for photography, it is light, compact and fun to use. With the Olympus EM5 and a small lens, 14mm f2.5, 17mm f1.8 or 20mm f1.7, you can easily put it into your coat pocket, it is a joy to carry and shoot. Very very fast single focus (not great on continue focus).

    I also really enjoy shooting with the Fuji X-E1, it is different to Olympus camera, different, not better or worst. The body and lens is a bit bigger than the EM5, but still smaller and lighter than the DSLR, the focus is slower than the EM5, but I won't call it slow. What I like about the Fuji is that I love the control, it feel really natural, and somehow it make me think about my photography more and be more creative.

    Both camera are very good, with good enough image quality (unless you are making big poster print). The EM5 have a lot of functions that make shoot easy and fast (IBIS, touch screen, small). The Fuji X-E1/X-E2, great control, balance, with great IQ. I have used both of these cameras in Wedding event and 5K/10K run, and able to get the photos I want from them, which I'm sure it would of been easier with a DSLR, but I'm not sure it would of been as fun.

    Both of these cameras should be able to shoot "Studio portraits, landscapes/seascapes, trips to country houses/folk museums, portraits in low light, holiday snaps, night shots, macro"...however I not sure how that will do with "sports (inc horse racing, triathlon and soon to be rugby)."

    I believe that the EM1 and Fuji X-T1 both have better continue focus, but they are at a different price and size. At the end of the day, this is just my opinion, what right for me might not be for you, if you live need a camera shop, I would recommend visit them and try these cameras in your hand, it will make a big different.

    Good luck on your search.
     
  15. snerkler

    snerkler
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    Calvin, from what you've said I'd be seriously tempted to get the 5D3, possibly keeping the 7D too for sports (assuming you're working at some distance). That way you can share lenses (unless you have a bunch that are crop only) and not have to start all over again. Imagine how good your studio shots will be with a 5D3 ;) They're already superb, but with the 5D3 they'd have the extra little cherry on top :D

    As for street photography, I'm in the same boat. I don't have the confidence/balls to walk round with a DSLR shooting random strangers. But, I don't think it'd make much difference if I had a CSC tbh, they're not that much more discrete imo. Plus, I'd still feel self conscious trying to 'sneak' pics as I'd feel like a bit of a voyuer :confused: Personally for me it's a matter of taking that leap rather than worrying about how big my equipment is,... so to speak ;)
     
  16. twist

    twist
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    He cant afford the 5D3.

    Tbh, in street/people photography the size of the camera makes a huge difference to how people react towards you. Its not how you feel about using a DSLR (your confidence level).
     
  17. CFC1

    CFC1
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    Wow! That is a fantastic detailed reply and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. Very interesting indeed and making my decision to buy a little clearer.

    Thank you.
     
  18. CFC1

    CFC1
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    I know from here and elsewhere that you have been looking at the x100 and experience of the other x range, twist, and as such was hoping for your input on this thread. Once again you have been helpful in the extreme in answering all my questions and covering all bases. I think that I am now comfortable enough in the x-e2's capabilities to buy it with the 18-55 kit lens as a starter and see how I go.

    Cheers

    Calvin
     
  19. snerkler

    snerkler
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    He didn't say he couldn't afford it, just couldn't justify it ;)
     
  20. twist

    twist
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    Easy, I can read you like a book ;)

    Same thing.
     
  21. snerkler

    snerkler
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    Lol, tous chez ;)

    I did edit my post as in my wonderous skimming of posts have since realised you said it's how others react to the camera :facepalm: :blush:
     
  22. twist

    twist
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    The XE2 is nice but If I were you Id wait for the XT1, it'll be a couple hundred more and you'll have the latest model, so it wont devalue, I think the XT1 is putting the XE2 in a tough position, the XE2 isnt selling well and all of a sudden the XT1 comes in at around £200 more. If you decide its not for you, you wont lose as much on the XT1 as you will on the XE2.
     
  23. twist

    twist
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    Size wise theres not much in it... except the hump, I prefer the rangefinder look so will hang onto my X-Pro 1. They are so cheap at the mo its stupid, £879 with 2 primes (18mm + choice of 27, 35 or 60). Sell the lenses and the body only costs around £400!

    Compare camera dimensions side by side
     
  24. CFC1

    CFC1
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    Cheers snerks. I could stretch to a 5d3 but I would have to sell my 7d and efs lenses to part fund it. That would leave me with a 50mm f1.8 (with broken af ) 100 mm macro and 70-200 f4 non is. I would therefore have to spend the thick end of another grand for a 24-70 f4. Additionally losing the crop would leave my 70-200 a good bit short of length.
     
  25. CFC1

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    Cheers again. The xt1is looking interesting but is throwing up the problem of it being nearly the size of a dslr anyway.
     
  26. CFC1

    CFC1
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    That is spot on in my case! my reasoning is to reduce the potential for confrontation and get me in close to get the shots that my dslr probably wouldn't allow most of the time.
     
  27. snerkler

    snerkler
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    Fiar enough, not a good option then ;)
     
  28. twist

    twist
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    Decided yet?
     
  29. HNM43

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    Hi @CFC1

    I have a little more update, just thought you might be interest, my wife just got the Fuji X-E2, physically, it feel very much like the Fuji X-E1.

    The main point on the Fuji X-E2 is the PDAF/Continue Auto Focus. It work, it does not work anywhere close to a DSRL (like D700 or D7000), but it does work, better than the Olympus OMD EM5 and the Fuji X-E1. There are 9 PDAF point (9 point around the centre) and at 3fs, it get short for short (as long as you pan and keep the focus point on the subject). Can it take a 5K/10K run?...probably, can it take a 100m sprint?...maybe better with manual focus. For everything else, I think it will be ok for (if you are shoot studio, I'm not sure how comprehensive Fuji Flash system is comparing to Canon and Nikon)

    I have to say though,

    The way I see is, if you are have been paid doing for sports event, then I say take a DSLR, but for person use and passion I would go with the Fuji, for me the Fuji X-E1/E2 is a beautiful camera to hold (just my opinion), and with the right case/grip, it feel just right in the hand, I find it hard to put down, cameras like that can only encourage you to take more photos, and sometime limitation bring out the creative in you. I know everybody is different, try it out and see what is right for you.

    Good luck with whatever you pick.
     
  30. CFC1

    CFC1
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    Appreciate the extra info ... thanks! :smashin::smashin:
     

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