Does CENTRE speaker have to match front LEFT/RIGHT?

joysleep1

Active Member
There are three main benefits to going dual:

1. Improved (flatter) frequency response at MLP due to fewer/smaller nulls
2. Higher SPL output capability
3. Reduction/elimination of subwoofer localisation

I went with dual subs for the first time last year in pursuit of #1 but the improvement in SQ from #3 alone would have been worth the upgrade which really surprised me. IMO #2 is the least important.

Also, just because you have dual subs it doesn't mean that you'll get a more even response - for that to happen you have to put them in the right locations. For example, this is what dual subs do in my room if they're both up front like most people have them (this is a REW prediction but the measurement is very similar).

View attachment 1667965

To get rid of that massive null from 35-55Hz the subs have to be positioned in the rear corners. Add a MiniDSP and the FR is now extremely flat (+/-1dB) from 18-80Hz.

Wow you dive into the science like a pro.

Fair enough. But if you go dual then surely it has to be same driver and type of subwoofer/size and so on right?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Wow you dive into the science like a pro.

Fair enough. But if you go dual then surely it has to be same driver and type of subwoofer/size and so on right?

When I added sb12+ to sb13 up bass was bit less "one sided" as you before could tell a little sub was on the left side... Like comparing one speaker that is disconnected to both pairs wired less drastic to that comparison but same principle
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Fair enough. But if you go dual then surely it has to be same driver and type of subwoofer/size and so on right?
Ideally they'll be the same (or very similar) subwoofers but some people have achieved excellent results with different subs. It's just much harder to do.
 

Conrad

Moderator
Wow you dive into the science like a pro.

Fair enough. But if you go dual then surely it has to be same driver and type of subwoofer/size and so on right?
The main considerations are the frequency ranges that the subs cover, and the phase of the subs.
If you have a 15" sub that handles <20Hz but then add an 8" sub that doesn't, you might get benefits where they're working together but the larger sub will still be doing all the low end. Plus you'll be limited in terms of SPL by the smaller sub.

Ported subs have large phase changes around the transition from. driver to port. If you mix ported subs that different tuning transition points then it can be very difficult to get a good response.

Matching subs is easiest, non-matching sealed subs is next easiest, ported subs need some effort. Matching any subs should really include at least a mic and something that allows the application of delays and EQ.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I guess you could put the less capable closer like next to sofa?
 

David Alexander

Active Member
Gosh I just had to pay the 118 pounds import charge.

This is becoming seriously expensive.
I kinda regret purchasing this. I could have gotten the bk passive sub in excellent condition for 400 pounds delivered.

Granted that sub looks a bit boring and wouldn't perform aswell but I reckon it would have been decent enough.

HHopefully the xtz will outperform on another level and will be worth it.
Hi, I did mention that at the current price on their website the delivered to UK price would be in the region of £645.

Also, for whatever reason, the credit card payment I made to XTZ last November wasn't processed until February this year. I'd kind of forgotten about it until the charge came through :facepalm:
 

joysleep1

Active Member
Hi, I did mention that at the current price on their website the delivered to UK price would be in the region of £645.

Also, for whatever reason, the credit card payment I made to XTZ last November wasn't processed until February this year. I'd kind of forgotten about it until the charge came through :facepalm:

Hmm thats strange. I think i have been charged.

Anyways, just waiting for Thursday to set this bad boy up.
 

David Alexander

Active Member
Hmm thats strange. I think i have been charged.

Anyways, just waiting for Thursday to set this bad boy up.
No idea why it took they took so long, maybe it was a credit card thing, or they were delaying processing for some tax accounting.

To second Conrad and Mr Wolf, you can run multiple subs, and even mix ported with sealed but you really could do with a measurement mic, REW freeware and some way of implementing EQ (i.e. a miniDSP 2x4HD), before you get to the level of the AVR EQ calibration.

I run dual 12.17 Edge along with a REL HT 1003 (sealed) but to get that right took some work with all of the above, and a bit of internet research. It’s fun though, and acoustically worthwhile.
 

joysleep1

Active Member
No idea why it took they took so long, maybe it was a credit card thing, or they were delaying processing for some tax accounting.

To second Conrad and Mr Wolf, you can run multiple subs, and even mix ported with sealed but you really could do with a measurement mic, REW freeware and some way of implementing EQ (i.e. a miniDSP 2x4HD), before you get to the level of the AVR EQ calibration.

I run dual 12.17 Edge along with a REL HT 1003 (sealed) but to get that right took some work with all of the above, and a bit of internet research. It’s fun though, and acoustically worthwhile.
Wow nice work for setting that up.

I am going to stick to one I'm afraid. No space to put another one and i dont have the expertise to calibrate 2 anyway.

I am a newbie in this field.
But glad i took the step of getting a 5.1 set up.

Btw, i know the concept of upfiring atmost speakers are poor but are they effective at all? I can probably get away with placing some speakers on top of my towers for height affect. I know my seating distance is far and that nothing would be better than actual speakers on ceilings or wall speakers closer to the sofa but i just cant get permission for that plus dont want to have speaker wire visible.

My ceiling is 8f high. Regular concrete wall.
Will try to show some photos when i get a chance
 

David Alexander

Active Member
I know my seating distance is far and that nothing would be better than actual speakers on ceilings or wall speakers closer to the sofa but i just cant get permission for that plus dont want to have speaker wire visible.
That will probably your issue. Upfirers have a reflection 'sweet-spot' and your seating position wont be in it with your MLP that far away from your mains.
 

David Alexander

Active Member
Yes and no to a degree, although probably more no I'm afraid.

I think their like a beam, think angle of incidence and angle of reflection from school physics. You can angle them but the resulting bounce reflection will be more diffuse, so not so good.
 

joysleep1

Active Member
Yes and no to a degree, although probably more no I'm afraid.

I think their like a beam, think angle of incidence and angle of reflection from school physics. You can angle them but the resulting bounce reflection will be more diffuse, so not so good.
Hmm yh thought it would be a long shot.

I will def push it when we get our extension renovated. Would love to get some ceiling ones.

When the time comes i will back for some advice about that.
I just wish i did this a year ago when we renovated. I was smart enough to install speaker wire under the floorboard for the surround sound but did not foresee potentially installing ceiling wires.
 

David Alexander

Active Member
Thinking more of using the cable run out to the rears from the AVR. You basically use the existing wire to pull either the second wire or fishing line through the same run. Did you run the rear cable run yourself?
 

joysleep1

Active Member
Thinking more of using the cable run out to the rears from the AVR. You basically use the existing wire to pull either the second wire or fishing line through the same run. Did you run the rear cable run yourself?

No i got my builder to do it.

I just told him i want one pair of wire from the tv to the back left side room and one pair to the right back side of the room.

Maybe i should have done 2 pairs each and then i could extend from there. Oh well

So he did exactly what i asked.
 

David Alexander

Active Member
Nope, as long as the wire in the cable run is able to run freely and there's enough space you use the existing wire to pull the new length through.
  • Disconnect one end of the old cable
  • Tape the new cable to the old cable. Any strong tape (both tearing strength and adhesive strength) will do - the stronger the better.
  • Use the old cable to pull the new cable through to the destination.
  • Untape the new cable and pull through an additional complete length - i.e., the same length as you had to pull the first time.
  • Tape the middle of the new cable - which is a location that will become the starting point - to the end of the old cable.
  • Pull the new cable back down. You will now have the old & new cables in the right place.
You could do this yourself or ask the builder who installed your wire to see if the idea is sound.
 

joysleep1

Active Member
Nope, as long as the wire in the cable run is able to run freely and there's enough space you use the existing wire to pull the new length through.
  • Disconnect one end of the old cable
  • Tape the new cable to the old cable. Any strong tape (both tearing strength and adhesive strength) will do - the stronger the better.
  • Use the old cable to pull the new cable through to the destination.
  • Untape the new cable and pull through an additional complete length - i.e., the same length as you had to pull the first time.
  • Tape the middle of the new cable - which is a location that will become the starting point - to the end of the old cable.
  • Pull the new cable back down. You will now have the old & new cables in the right place.
You could do this yourself or ask the builder who installed your wire to see if the idea is sound.
Hmm i could look into that potentially.
 

joysleep1

Active Member
Hi

Just wanted ppl opinion on Biamping.

Now that i have 2 channels spare right now, would there be any benifit to bi-apming my tower speakers?

I have plenty of cable so thats not an issue but dont want to do it just for the sake of it.

Is there any advantage in actually doing this?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Hi

Just wanted ppl opinion on Biamping.

Now that i have 2 channels spare right now, would there be any benifit to bi-apming my tower speakers?

I have plenty of cable so thats not an issue but dont want to do it just for the sake of it.

Is there any advantage in actually doing this?

I'd say worth it in decent hifi system but not av. I went from front three biamped to regularly powered front three in av. Hifi is biamped
 

David Alexander

Active Member
As just posted:
  • Bi-amping using two separate amps may be worthwhile on some speakers.
  • Bi-amping using spare channels on your existing AVR probably not worthwhile.
I currently run a 2 Ch + subs through a Arcam 2 Ch AVR so don't do it. Tried it before with a budget range Onkyo AVR where I had spare channels and it didn't do anything appreciable through MA BR6 towers at that time.
 

joysleep1

Active Member
As just posted:
  • Bi-amping using two separate amps may be worthwhile on some speakers.
  • Bi-amping using spare channels on your existing AVR probably not worthwhile.
I currently run a 2 Ch + subs through a Arcam 2 Ch AVR so don't do it. Tried it before with a budget range Onkyo AVR where I had spare channels and it didn't do anything appreciable through MA BR6 towers at that time.
Hmm ok forget it then

I mean the sound sounds amazing anyway so i thought there was no point but just in case there was something i was missing.

Thanks for the advice
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
As said biamping with multiple dedicated amps of sharing avr? I've done the former
 

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