Answered Does anyone use HDMI Control successfully on Denon or Marantz AVRs?

daveb975

Well-known Member
I have always hated HDMI Control/CEC, but am once again toying with the idea of switching it on purely because the ARC functionality is inexplicably part of the same standard.

I have got a Marantz SR7010 in one room and a Denon X4000 in another. The only connection between the two systems is that one source is shared to both amps via an HDMI splitter.

This morning I reset my Nvidia Shield box which is connected to the Marantz amp and it obviously came back on with HDMI control enabled. It is NOT the shared source.

When turned the Shield on it activated the amp in the OTHER room and turned it to the TV Audio input! When I turned the Shield off, it turned the other amp off.

My question is, should I bother persevering with HDMI Control or will it just throw up annoying anomalies like this all the time?

I should note, I'd only be using it for ARC as the actual control is covered by a Harmony remote.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Most devices have independent options for separately controlling whether to enable or disable the "power on from remote device" and "power off remote device" options. For complex scenarios, it is often better to disable this functionality where it doesn't act as desired.

In your case the Shield switched the TV, which switched the amplifier. The reason is that the TV is set up to use the amplifier for sound over ARC, the Shield is an A/V source and therefore provides sound, and you are presumed to want to hear something. As such, the logic is impeccable and by no means anomalous, even if it differs from your wishes.

More annoying are cases such as universal players which automatically signal the TV to turn on when powered up, even though I'm playing a CD or SACD. This is illogical, but nevertheless almost universal.
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
Most devices have independent options for separately controlling whether to enable or disable the "power on from remote device" and "power off remote device" options. For complex scenarios, it is often better to disable this functionality where it doesn't act as desired.

In your case the Shield switched the TV, which switched the amplifier. The reason is that the TV is set up to use the amplifier for sound over ARC, the Shield is an A/V source and therefore provides sound, and you are presumed to want to hear something. As such, the logic is impeccable and by no means anomalous, even if it differs from your wishes.

More annoying are cases such as universal players which automatically signal the TV to turn on when powered up, even though I'm playing a CD or SACD. This is illogical, but nevertheless almost universal.
Thanks. It sounds as though further investigation, might be worth it. There are few things I don't understand though.

1. Most of my devices just seem to have HDMI-CEC on or off, no halfway house with respect to power commands being repressed.

2. In my case, the Shield TV is the only device with HDMI-CEC switched on. It is off on both the TV and the AVR, so I don't totally understand how they can be controlled and passthrough commands.

3. Whenever I have experimented in the past with all devices turned on, my AVR always seems to turn to the 'TV Audio' input even if I want to use a completely different source to provide a picture to the TV. I guess this is just the opposite anomaly to your CD case?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
ARC.:(
Arseache Random Complications.:mad:
My life doesn't need these complications.:nono:
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
ARC.:(
Arseache Random Complications.:mad:
My life doesn't need these complications.:nono:
Indeed. That is how I feel about it at the moment, but certain things make me want to use it. For example, on my second system (based around a Denon X4000), I can't watch Netflix in HDR with DD+ sound.

I can either watch it in HDR with sound through the TV, or through any of my other devices with full sound but no HDR. I could upgrade to a newer amp, but the £500+ cost to change seems a bit excessive given all other functionality and sound will remain the same.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
ARC never seemed to work properly on my old Sony TV and Denon 2310 receiver. Change channel and the receiver would switch off, add the Sky HD box into the mix, oh dear. Guarantee it was your's truely who messed it up but I soon switched HDMI control off and didn't even bother setting it up on the Panny.

Nothing quite like sitting down surrounded by individual remotes when watching the box.:)
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
Nothing quite like sitting down surrounded by individual remotes when watching the box.:)
That is my other problem. I use Harmony and I think it is great, but it ARC/CEC works against it when it is turned on.

Another option is to programme the Harmony to undo the 'damage' done by ARC/CEC, but I am just worried that I'd be chasing problems all of the time. Harmony is great once up and running, but is a faff to set up first time or when I change equipment.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I had two simple systems where this worked: My previous main system with a Panasonic LCD TV and a Marantz SR6010 and my second room with a smaller version of the same TV and a Marantz NR1605 slimline AVR. Both worked perfectly when using the TV remote; even my elderly MIL could use either system. Turning on and off the AVR seemlessly when the TV remote was used to turn on the TV, the sound control operating the AVR instead of the built in speakers.

However, I replaced my main room AVR for an Arcam, which sounds lovely, but I have switched off ARC/CEC because it just doesn't work at least 50% of the time. Instead I use a Harmony in the main room (which seems to work well unlike the post above), but I'd prefer being able to leave out the standard TV remote for use by visitors.
 

Alexxxx

Active Member
It's a pain in the backside to be honest with you. I managed to set it up more or less properly with all the controls tuned off on denon X4200 and only ARC turned on. However, if the last input on the AVR was TV audio and or if I used AVR for ARC the last time the tv was on and I'm turning just the TV on, it still turns on my AVR on....major pain, especially if you have harmony as it messes up the process and I do not have the AVR remote handy.

Best suggestions would be try and turn everything off and then anable 1 by one to see which controls and features work. That applies to both the tv and AVR.
 

Access

Active Member
I think the key is that it works in simple setups, anything more complex and it starts to fall down. I have never been able to get it to work properly and ended up like you using a Harmony remote.

Now the only mionor bug I get is when the Sky box updates it always turns HDMI control back on, not a major prob, just a bit annoying.
 

Sufc1989

Active Member
I've switched it off on my denon x6200 and 3313BD player because it doesn't work properly with my harmony remote. However, if you use the denon app, then it works fine but this app only controls the denon kit and I wanta 1 for all remote to manage all my devices.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
If CEC is off on the TV and both AVRs, ARC will not work and I don't understand how the NVidia can be doing anything to the other AVR.

One problem you may be facing is that some HDMI splitters have serious problems with CEC. At the same time, your description in post #1 seems to imply that you actually require an HDMI switch, CEC supporting switches are normally better behaved, but not all support ARC correctly, since they don't know how to route back through the switch to the source. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you have (manufacturer and model)?
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
If CEC is off on the TV and both AVRs, ARC will not work and I don't understand how the NVidia can be doing anything to the other AVR.

One problem you may be facing is that some HDMI splitters have serious problems with CEC. At the same time, your description in post #1 seems to imply that you actually require an HDMI switch, CEC supporting switches are normally better behaved, but not all support ARC correctly, since they don't know how to route back through the switch to the source. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you have (manufacturer and model)?
If it is switches and splitters that cause a problem, then my system is bound to attract it!

I have got a Virgin TiVo that feeds both AVRs through a Neet 1x2 HDMI splitter, that is what I was referring to in the first post.

Also, the output from the Denon X4000 goes into a Ligawo 3090064 5x1 HDMI switch. I use this as I have only one HDMI cable buried in my wall and I want my PS4 Pro, Samsung K8500 and Nvidia Shield to send 4K/HDR material direct to my TV without having to go through the HDMI 1.4 AVR.

I have used this setup for some time prior to getting the Shield last week and it worked fine, hence me suspecting the Shield. I checked last night, and CEC is definitely switched off on the Shield.
 
It's a pain in the backside to be honest with you. I managed to set it up more or less properly with all the controls tuned off on denon X4200 and only ARC turned on. However, if the last input on the AVR was TV audio and or if I used AVR for ARC the last time the tv was on and I'm turning just the TV on, it still turns on my AVR on....major pain, especially if you have harmony as it messes up the process and I do not have the AVR remote handy.

Best suggestions would be try and turn everything off and then anable 1 by one to see which controls and features work. That applies to both the tv and AVR.
Have you switched off the control function on the TV side? I have the C6 and I have ARC enabled but control switched off on the TV. That way it will just not send the signal but it will send the audio. Seems to work perfectly that way and the harmony controls power on/off.
 

Alexxxx

Active Member
Have you switched off the control function on the TV side? I have the C6 and I have ARC enabled but control switched off on the TV. That way it will just not send the signal but it will send the audio. Seems to work perfectly that way and the harmony controls power on/off.
Thanks, will give it a go tonight... I think i tried switching the control off but the was no sound coming through, I can't remember
 

Bobrizz718

Novice Member
Most devices have independent options for separately controlling whether to enable or disable the "power on from remote device" and "power off remote device" options. For complex scenarios, it is often better to disable this functionality where it doesn't act as desired.

In your case the Shield switched the TV, which switched the amplifier. The reason is that the TV is set up to use the amplifier for sound over ARC, the Shield is an A/V source and therefore provides sound, and you are presumed to want to hear something. As such, the logic is impeccable and by no means anomalous, even if it differs from your wishes.

More annoying are cases such as universal players which automatically signal the TV to turn on when powered up, even though I'm playing a CD or SACD. This is illogical, but nevertheless almost universal.
I have always hated HDMI Control/CEC, but am once again toying with the idea of switching it on purely because the ARC functionality is inexplicably part of the same standard.

I have got a Marantz SR7010 in one room and a Denon X4000 in another. The only connection between the two systems is that one source is shared to both amps via an HDMI splitter.

This morning I reset my Nvidia Shield box which is connected to the Marantz amp and it obviously came back on with HDMI control enabled. It is NOT the shared source.

When turned the Shield on it activated the amp in the OTHER room and turned it to the TV Audio input! When I turned the Shield off, it turned the other amp off.

My question is, should I bother persevering with HDMI Control or will it just throw up annoying anomalies like this all the time?

I should note, I'd only be using it for ARC as the actual control is covered by a Harmony
Most devices have independent options for separately controlling whether to enable or disable the "power on from remote device" and "power off remote device" options. For complex scenarios, it is often better to disable this functionality where it doesn't act as desired.

In your case the Shield switched the TV, which switched the amplifier. The reason is that the TV is set up to use the amplifier for sound over ARC, the Shield is an A/V source and therefore provides sound, and you are presumed to want to hear something. As such, the logic is impeccable and by no means anomalous, even if it differs from your wishes.

More annoying are cases such as universal players which automatically signal the TV to turn on when powered up, even though I'm playing a CD or SACD. This is illogical, but nevertheless almost universal.
 

Bobrizz718

Novice Member
If CEC is off on the TV and both AVRs, ARC will not work and I don't understand how the NVidia can be doing anything to the other AVR.

One problem you may be facing is that some HDMI splitters have serious problems with CEC. At the same time, your description in post #1 seems to imply that you actually require an HDMI switch, CEC supporting switches are normally better behaved, but not all support ARC correctly, since they don't know how to route back through the switch to the source. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you have (manufacturer and model)?
Hi. My name is Bob and I was browsing this forum on this particular thread that was originally posted by “daveb975” and responded to by “Mark.Yudkin” It quickly caught my attention since I am having a similar issue which may be related to HDMI control. My “problem” does not involve a splitter but rather two separate devices in what I consider to be, a fairly typical home audio/home theatre setup. It involves a Marantz SR 6012 AV receiver and a DirectTV HD receiver with a “Genie” remote. The remaining devices in my system are a plasma TV, blu ray player, and two audio CD players. The Marantz and the DirectTV receiver are connected via HDMI, in the usual fashion, to allow both multi channel playback of HD programming AND arc/pass-through functionality, on the majority of occasions when I choose NOT to power up the Marantz AVR. The problem I’m having is that the Marantz powers on EVERY time I simply turn on TV/Direct TV receiver. I know that both the TV itself and the satellite receiver are supposed to come on together, but why should the Marantz power up too? Mind you, this happens regardless of me using the “Genie” remote or the HD receiver front panel button when powering on. What’s the big deal? , you might ask. Simply just turn off the Marantz, right?
This is where the real issue occurs. Once it happens, when I go to use the Marantz later on, it will not output ANY audio. Pop in a blu ray - select the proper input source - I get video, but no sound. If I try the CD input - and attempt to play an audio CD - the track plays , but again, no audio. And if I select the input source to which the DirectTV receiver is connected - again, I get video but no sound. Here, I’ll mention that fortunately, this “glitch” is never permanent. After calling Crutchfield, one of their techs suggested a “soft reset”, which is simply unplugging the Marantz for 2 or 3 minutes and then reconnecting. Normal function does , in fact, return! They also suggested leaving the DirectTV receiver powered on all the time and to just use the TV remote, exclusively, to turn the system on and off. While all the above does appear to work, it’s not a perfect solution, IMO. Inevitably, there will be ( and have been) numerous times when someone grabs the wrong remote - which necessitates another reset. Mind you, the problem occurs when both turning on AND turning off the DirectTv receiver using either the remote or the front panel button .
What to do next? I’m sure Crutchfield would’ve gladly approved an exchange, had the purchase been within the last 60 days, but it was purchased over a year ago. Does this sound to anyone like an internal defect with the Marantz? If so, I am still well within Marantz’ 3 year warranty. Yet, I don’t relish the thought of lugging it to an authorized service center ( hopefully near my home) and waiting weeks for them to troubleshoot/repair it - only to find that the problem still occurs when I reconnect it at home!. I also have a suspicion that the issue may lie with the DirectTV equipment - since the problem began right after they switched out their receiver (was just a routine upgrade to my existing equipment). Coincidence? I’m not sure, nor do I expect to get much help or admission of accountability from Direct TV. In a perfect world, if this issue is equipment related, I would love to get it fixed once and for all. In a less than perfect one, I’m certainly not happy with having to unplug and reset a $1000 component, each and every time this glitch? occurs! Not to mention the long term effect (maybe?) the repeated “resets” could have on the unit.
I’m hopeful that someone has come across this issue before and can offer some insight. Any and all opinions/suggestions are welcome. It has all been very frustrating for me that I have not been able to enjoy this product fully after spending a significant (for me anyway) amount of money on a brand that I considered to be a sound (pun intended) choice! Thanks, in advance, for any help
 

GoingGoingGone

Distinguished Member
Hi. My name is Bob and I was browsing this forum on this particular thread that was originally posted by “daveb975” and responded to by “Mark.Yudkin” It quickly caught my attention since I am having a similar issue which may be related to HDMI control. My “problem” does not involve a splitter but rather two separate devices in what I consider to be, a fairly typical home audio/home theatre setup. It involves a Marantz SR 6012 AV receiver and a DirectTV HD receiver with a “Genie” remote. The remaining devices in my system are a plasma TV, blu ray player, and two audio CD players. The Marantz and the DirectTV receiver are connected via HDMI, in the usual fashion, to allow both multi channel playback of HD programming AND arc/pass-through functionality, on the majority of occasions when I choose NOT to power up the Marantz AVR. The problem I’m having is that the Marantz powers on EVERY time I simply turn on TV/Direct TV receiver. I know that both the TV itself and the satellite receiver are supposed to come on together, but why should the Marantz power up too? Mind you, this happens regardless of me using the “Genie” remote or the HD receiver front panel button when powering on. What’s the big deal? , you might ask. Simply just turn off the Marantz, right?
This is where the real issue occurs. Once it happens, when I go to use the Marantz later on, it will not output ANY audio. Pop in a blu ray - select the proper input source - I get video, but no sound. If I try the CD input - and attempt to play an audio CD - the track plays , but again, no audio. And if I select the input source to which the DirectTV receiver is connected - again, I get video but no sound. Here, I’ll mention that fortunately, this “glitch” is never permanent. After calling Crutchfield, one of their techs suggested a “soft reset”, which is simply unplugging the Marantz for 2 or 3 minutes and then reconnecting. Normal function does , in fact, return! They also suggested leaving the DirectTV receiver powered on all the time and to just use the TV remote, exclusively, to turn the system on and off. While all the above does appear to work, it’s not a perfect solution, IMO. Inevitably, there will be ( and have been) numerous times when someone grabs the wrong remote - which necessitates another reset. Mind you, the problem occurs when both turning on AND turning off the DirectTv receiver using either the remote or the front panel button .
What to do next? I’m sure Crutchfield would’ve gladly approved an exchange, had the purchase been within the last 60 days, but it was purchased over a year ago. Does this sound to anyone like an internal defect with the Marantz? If so, I am still well within Marantz’ 3 year warranty. Yet, I don’t relish the thought of lugging it to an authorized service center ( hopefully near my home) and waiting weeks for them to troubleshoot/repair it - only to find that the problem still occurs when I reconnect it at home!. I also have a suspicion that the issue may lie with the DirectTV equipment - since the problem began right after they switched out their receiver (was just a routine upgrade to my existing equipment). Coincidence? I’m not sure, nor do I expect to get much help or admission of accountability from Direct TV. In a perfect world, if this issue is equipment related, I would love to get it fixed once and for all. In a less than perfect one, I’m certainly not happy with having to unplug and reset a $1000 component, each and every time this glitch? occurs! Not to mention the long term effect (maybe?) the repeated “resets” could have on the unit.
I’m hopeful that someone has come across this issue before and can offer some insight. Any and all opinions/suggestions are welcome. It has all been very frustrating for me that I have not been able to enjoy this product fully after spending a significant (for me anyway) amount of money on a brand that I considered to be a sound (pun intended) choice! Thanks, in advance, for any help
Have you tried turning off HDMI Control on the Marantz? It should then ignore any power on commands coming from the other devices.
 

Bobrizz718

Novice Member
Have you tried turning off HDMI Control on the Marantz? It should then ignore any power on commands coming from the other devices.
I believe I tried that before. But I’ll try it again just to rule out the possibility. Would turning off HDMI control affect any other functionality aspects, such as keeping the AVR’s “switching” duties intact? Thanks though!
 

GoingGoingGone

Distinguished Member
I believe I tried that before. But I’ll try it again just to rule out the possibility. Would turning off HDMI control affect any other functionality aspects, such as keeping the AVR’s “switching” duties intact? Thanks though!
Not as far as I know. However it may stop ARC being available but you can try it and see.
If using this function, use a TV compatible with ARC (Audio Return Channel) and enable the HDMI Control function of the TV.
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
I’m not sure why HMDI Control/CEC would cause that particular behaviour, but it certainly sounds as though you have got it switched on if the Marantz is turning on with other devices.

Unless you absolutely need it for any reason, I’d recommend making sure it is turned off in all of your devices, including the TV.

CEC is deeply flawed, inconsistent across brands and not worth the hassle in a lot of systems.
 

Bobrizz718

Novice Member
I’m not sure why HMDI Control/CEC would cause that particular behaviour, but it certainly sounds as though you have got it switched on if the Marantz is turning on with other devices.

Unless you absolutely need it for any reason, I’d recommend making sure it is turned off in all of your devices, including the TV.

CEC is deeply flawed, inconsistent across brands and not worth the hassle in a lot of systems.
Thanks for the feedback from everyone. I’ll go back into the setup menu and make the above change and see what happens. Still puzzled as to why the Marantz would suddenly not be able to output audio - on ANY input source - until I did the “unplug” reset each time!. Has anyone ever heard of that happening before as a result of the whole ARC/CEC/HDMI control thing? Hope it’s not due to a defect in the receiver.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
It is always difficult to resolve the concurrent requirement of "I want to use the AVR" and the "I want to bypass the AVR" when using ARC, as ARC doesn't really support the second option. Rather it assumes that if you tell the TV to use the AVR, then you meant it, and unless you tell the TV never to power up any source, it will attempt to do so.

Go through every attached HDMI device's configuration and make the absolutely consistent with each other over each option. Having the Marantz ignore power controls whilst the TV sends them makes for schizophrenic behaviour. HDMI CEC is a full chain system - the AVR acts as a switch and therefore routes control commands to other devices. If one of the other devices has a conflicting behaviour, you again get split personality behaviour.
 

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