Does a business have to do any type of work?

imightbewrong

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There is this story: 'Gay cake' row: Judge rules against Ashers bakery - BBC News

Short version - a judge has ruled against a baker who refused to make a pro-gay-marriage promotional image because of their religious beliefs.

On the surface this appears to be an equality thing - but they would have served the customers - they just didn't like their icing.

This got me thinking if I ran a bakery or t-shirt printers, or car signage firm, and someone came in with something I found deeply offensive but legal (I dunno, something about vaccines being evil, or wanting some white supremacist stuff, or that there should be more x-factor on television) does a business have the right to say 'sorry, we don't do that type of thing here' or do I just have to grin and bear it?
 
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Nope, not based on race, colour or sexuality - that's against the law. You can be refused treatment and service on other grounds tho.
 
Interesting.
So if I ran a printing firm and someone came in wanting leaflets advertising a psychic, I wouldn't be able to tell them to get lost on the grounds they're charlatans?
Suppose I could just lie and say too busy (due to unforeseen circumstances)
 
Nope, not based on race, colour or sexuality - that's against the law. You can be refused treatment and service on other grounds tho.

Nope what? :) I know you can't discriminate on who you serve, but can you discriminate on what you do? That's a distinction I hadn't considered before.
 
Interesting.
So if I ran a printing form and someone came in wanting leaflets advertising a psychic, I wouldn't be able to tell them to get lost?
Suppose I could just lie and say too busy (due to unforeseen circumstances)

Not sure you can discriminate against psychics? But I think if you said because you peddle false hope and nonsense and disgust me, I'm not printing your twaddle - you still fall fowl of the law. I think the only place that can do it and get away with it, is pubs.
 
Nope what? :) I know you can't discriminate on who you serve, but can you discriminate on what you do? That's a distinction I hadn't considered before.

No, as in not within the law. You choosing to be offended by whatever it is, would be your problem.
 
But doesn't this happen, overtly, all the time in the business world? "We refuse to work with company X as they export missiles to Africa". I know at university we used to work with the MOD but refused any projects which were linked to 'killing people' ("We'll make you a better route finder, but not a better missile guidance system").
 
Interesting.
So if I ran a printing firm and someone came in wanting leaflets advertising a psychic, I wouldn't be able to tell them to get lost on the grounds they're charlatans?
Suppose I could just lie and say too busy (due to unforeseen circumstances)

But if they are psychic they must have known that you wouldn't do it
 
But doesn't this happen, overtly, all the time in the business world? "We refuse to work with company X as they export missiles to Africa". I know at university we used to work with the MOD but refused any projects which were linked to 'killing people' ("We'll make you a better route finder, but not a better missile guidance system").

I regularly act as an intermediary between a Nigerian client and a very well known industrial name who refuses to deal with Nigeria.
I'm not suggesting any racist connotation, I think it's more based on the somewhat 'loose' payment arrangements Nigerian companies can have.
I don't see why you can't please yourself who you deal with.
It must be a case of 'only an issue if someone makes it an issue'.
 
I'm just amazed it's an issue at all. If someone comes into my t-shirt shop and wants 1000 'XXXX people are scum' t-shirts printed for a rally, do I really have to do it? You can replace 'scum' with other words.
 
I disagree with this judgement. They should have to serve him as a gay man but not have to produce any product that don't want to.

So if he bought a chocolate cup cake, yes they should serve him. Gay cakes, no, entirely up to them. They wouldn't make that cake for a straight person either so I don't see how they discriminated against him.
 
I disagree with this judgement. They should have to serve him as a gay man but not have to produce any product that don't want to.

So if he bought a chocolate cup cake, yes they should serve him. Gay cakes, no, entirely up to them. They wouldn't make that cake for a straight person either so I don't see how they discriminated against him.

Yes this is what I'm getting at. No 'people' were discriminated against here. Indeed they said:

"We've said from the start that our issue was with the message on the cake, not with the customer and that we didn't know what the sexual orientation of Mr Lee was, and it wasn't relevant either. We've always been happy to serve any customers who come into our shops.
 
What if a baker refused to supply a bat mitzvah cake on grounds that they weren't Jewish and felt Jews angered their God or a florist refused to provide flowers for a black woman's funeral. Afterall why do beliefs have to be based on religion to be sincerely held?

Its fine to tolerate intolerance when someone else bears the brunt, I guess.

As for claims the bakery had a "right" to reject the request, they clearly didnt. Gay man wins discrimination case suddenly, and suspiciously, people yearn for the halcyon days of no blacks, no Irish.

You cannot discriminate against a protected group.
 
Gay man wins discrimination case suddenly, and suspiciously, people yearn for the halcyon days of no blacks, no Irish.

You cannot discriminate against a protected group.

Isn't it stupid that that bakery has to make that cake for a gay man but doesn't have to make it for a straight man?

That in itself is discrimination.

So to get to eat a sweet Bert an Ernie cake, I have eat a cock? Ridiculous.
 
Yes this is what I'm getting at. No 'people' were discriminated against here. Indeed they said:

"We've said from the start that our issue was with the message on the cake, not with the customer and that we didn't know what the sexual orientation of Mr Lee was, and it wasn't relevant either. We've always been happy to serve any customers who come into our shops.

Oddly the defendants dont get to decide if they discriminated against someone.

They were asked to provide a service and they refused to comply. They are a business and arent allowed to if it is determined that decision is based on the customer's sexual orientation, race, gender or disability.

How comfortable are we with:

"I said I would serve the disabled woman a cake but putting "Support disability rights" conflicts with my own views so i refused"

I suspect less so
 
How comfortable are we with:

"I said I would serve the disabled woman a cake but putting "Support disability rights" conflicts with my own views so i refused"

I suspect less so

I'm comfortable with that. That isn't discriminating against her but with an idea.
 
I'm comfortable with that. That isn't discriminating against her but with an idea.

if they refused to cater a mixed race wedding?

after all its not the people they object to there either, merely there cerrmony.

Crux of matter seems to be 'straight person "comfortable" with gays being refused service.'
 
if they refused to cater a mixed race wedding?

after all its not the people they object to there either, merely there cerrmony.

Crux of matter seems to be 'straight person "comfortable" with gays being refused service.'

I don't think they should be compelled to cater anywhere they don't want to. Seriously, who would hire racist caterers for a mixed race wedding?
 
As a business owner I reserve the right to produce work for who I like based on my own decisions. Law or not, if I don't want to do it I won't and I'd rather pay a fine if it went against my own beliefs.

I can't think of a scenario where this might actually happen as I'm very easy going but I still believe I have that right to choose and if I lose custom because of that then that's my loss.
 
They were asked to provide a service and they refused to comply. They are a business and arent allowed to if it is determined that decision is based on the customer's sexual orientation, race, gender or disability.

In this case they didn't even know the customer's sexual orientation.
 

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