does a blu ray 3d dvd player have better sound and can i assume 2 hdmi's is a gimmick

gbmitie

Active Member
thinking of upgrading my old blu ray dvd player to a 3d blu ray and swamped with tech specs, so narrowed to a panasonic with 2 hdmi and a sony s780. want to explore streaming/u tube etc.

But will those 2 hdmi ports feature become redundant or essential in the future?

Also is it true that I will get better sound with a 3d player as bit rate can be much higher?

I found this titbit from a usa site "

You'll understand the saying “music to my ears” when you hear the impressive audio quality of the 3D Blu-ray players we've reviewed. Technology like Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and LPCM blow all other DVD players out of the water with their claims of mimicking the original movie's studio master soundtrack at 24.5 Mbit/s in comparison with the 18 Mbit/s rate of a standard blu-ray player."

gbmitie
 
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xit2050

Well-known Member
Also is it true that I will get better sound with a 3d player as bit rate can be much higher?

I found this titbit from a usa site "

You’ll understand the saying “music to my ears” when you hear the impressive audio quality of the 3D Blu-ray players we’ve reviewed. Technology like Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and LPCM blow all other DVD players out of the water with their claims of mimicking the original movie’s studio master soundtrack at 24.5 Mbit/s in comparison with the 18 Mbit/s rate of a standard blu-ray player."

Sounds like rubbish to me...
 

madhouse

Active Member
But will those 2 hdmi ports feature become redundant or essential in the future?
gbmitie

hiya,
2 hdmi ports are usually useful if you wish to connect 1 directly to a TV and the other to a projector, so no need to switch cables over. Similiar to some of the surround receivers out there that also have 2 hdmi outputs for the same reason.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
THe reasoning behind having 2 HDMI outputs on a 3D Blu-ray player is in order to provide provision for older AV amps that lack the ability to passthrough 3D. You connect one output to a 3D display for the video and the other HDMI output to your older AV amp for the audio. This is useful because you can't access the HD audio used on Blu-ray titles via optical or digi coax so you'd need the HDMI to AV amp connection to get the HD audio.

The 3D BD discs have the same audio as that used on the 2D versions of the same films. The 3D players have no audio benefits in comparison to the 2D players and both playback PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio equally well.
 

Kilian

Novice Member
At least with some players the second HDMI output is audio only (with non-3D blank video) so you can pass audio to a non-HDMI 1.4 receiver. The audio spec is the same on 2D and 3D BD. It's the same audio track whether on a 2D or 3D version of the same release.

That quote from toptenreviews.com looks very much like a misquote off the DTS-HD whitepaper on p.4:

XLL Extension for Lossless Audio coding, a bit-for-bit recreation of the original master recording using variable bit rate encoding as high as 24.5 Mbps for Blu-ray Disc and 18.0 Mbps for HD DVD formats

The paper talks about the maximum possible bitrates for the dts-HD MA encoded stream on BD and HD DVD, but these are theoretical and not what is typically found.

It's easy to calcuate the bitrate of the uncompressed PCM track:
7.1 24-bit 96kHz: 8*24*96kHz=18.4Mbps
5.1 24-bit 192kHz: 6*24*192kHz=27.65Mbps (this is the max. audio bandwidth on BD)

Divide the PCM sampling rate by 2 to 3 to get the Dolby TrueHD or dts-HD MA sampling rates, as they normally achieve 2-3 times compression.

If you take a normal film BD, with 6CH 24/48 tracks, the PCM sampling rate would be 6.9Mbps and typically the Dolby TrueHD or dts-HD MA would be from 2 to 3.5Mbps.

So it's nothing like 18 or 24.5 Mbps as misquoted in the toptenreviews article.
 

gbmitie

Active Member
thanks all, all this high tech is leaving me floundering, I have a denon 2310 amp/receiver and is this regarded as too old for 3d tv?

gbmitie
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
thanks all, all this high tech is leaving me floundering, I have a denon 2310 amp/receiver and is this regarded as too old for 3d tv?

gbmitie

It lacks the ability to passthrough full blown sequential 3D as found on 3D blu-ray titles. The HDMI interface conforms with the version 1.3 specifications and at least version 1.4 is required for sequential 3D. The interface can passthrough side by side 3D as used by sat and cable TV as well as the signal being used for 3D games.
 

owen021173

Well-known Member
dante01 said:
It lacks the ability to passthrough full blown sequential 3D as found on 3D blu-ray titles. The HDMI interface conforms with the version 1.3 specifications and at least version 1.4 is required for sequential 3D. The interface can passthrough side by side 3D as used by sat and cable TV as well as the signal being used for 3D games.

Dante, you seem to be pretty clued up on this subject so if the OP doesn't mind I'm in a similar position, 2 yr old denon , new 3d player needed
Apart from the panny 310 are there any other 2 hdmi players around
I know of the oppo but that's currently £500
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Dante, you seem to be pretty clued up on this subject so if the OP doesn't mind I'm in a similar position, 2 yr old denon , new 3d player needed
Apart from the panny 310 are there any other 2 hdmi players around
I know of the oppo but that's currently £500

I think the Panasonic option is the only one that meets low budget requirements? The Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD offers dual HDMI output, but at a price similar to the OPPO 93. The CA Azur 651BD is basically the same player as the OPPO.
 
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owen021173

Well-known Member
dante01 said:
I think the Panasonic option is the only one that meets low budget requirements? The Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD offers dual HDMI output, but at a price similar to the OPPO 93. The CA Azur 651BD is basically the same player as the OPPO.

Ok cheers Dante
To save clutter on op's thread would you mind if I pm'd you ?
 

deblee

Novice Member
I think the Panasonic option is the only one that meets low budget requirements? The Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD offers dual HDMI output, but at a price similar to the OPPO 93. The CA Azur 651BD is basically the same player as the OPPO.

Thanks for that, been searching the forums to an answer to that.
I have the Sony STR-DN1000 and have recently bought a Panasonic ST30 3D TV, looking at getting a 3D BD player and liked the budget Panasonic 110 as this gets good comments and reviews but then someone mentioned 3D audio!
If I did get this model & played a 3D bluray through it would I just get no sound?
I realise it would be best to get the 310 but after buying the St30 I have budget constraints
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
… but then someone mentioned 3D audio!
If I did get this model & played a 3D bluray through it would I just get no sound?

All BD players have the same audio output capabilities. All the players can output the audio formats found on both DVD and Blu-ray discs. The audio associated with 3D titles is the exact same audio as found on 2D discs and the players do not differ in this respect. There's no such thing as 3D audio, 3D refers to the video and has no bearing on the audio.

You cannot play 3D titles on a 2D player. You can play 2D movies on a 3D player.

You will get audio from any player you buy, regardless of model or it being 2D or 3D.
 
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deblee

Novice Member
All BD players have the same audio output abilities. All the players can output the audio formats found on both DVD and Blu-ray discs. The audio associated with 3D titles is the exact same audio as found on 2D discs and the players do not differ in this respect. There's no such thing as 3D audio, 3D refers to the video and has no bearing on the audio.

You cannot play 3D titles on a 2D player. You can play 2D movies on a 3D player.

Ok thanks I understand a bit better now but what I was asking is if when playing a 3D film via the Panasonic 110 connected to my Sony STR-DN1000 via HDMI would I get HD sound from the film or indeed any sound at all (I know some titles have different audio streams)?
If I do then what is the point of going for the 310?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Ok thanks I understand a bit better now but what I was asking is if when playing a 3D film via the Panasonic 110 connected to my Sony STR-DN1000 via HDMI would I get HD sound from the film or indeed any sound at all (I know some titles have different audio streams)?
If I do then what is the point of going for the 310?

The STRDN1000 has the ability to decode HD audio so you would get HD audio via that AV receiver via HDMI. It would be limited to 2D video passthrough though. The 3D video would need to be routed via the other HDMI output of the player directly to the TV while audio is sent via the other HDMI output to the AV amp.
 
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deblee

Novice Member
The STRDN1000 has the ability to decode HD audio so you would get HD audio via that AV receiver via HDMI.

You mention that this receiver doesn't pass through the full blown sequential 3d from 3d films so would I just need to connect via HDMI direct to TV then?
If I do this then I lose HD audio, hence the need for 2 HDMI's?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You mention that this receiver doesn't pass through the full blown sequential 3d from 3d films so would I just need to connect via HDMI direct to TV then?
If I do this then I lose HD audio, hence the need for 2 HDMI's?


The 3D video would need to be routed via the other HDMI output of the player directly to the TV while audio is sent via the other HDMI output to the AV amp.

If you don't use the amp at all and just output to the TV then you'll be limited to non HD audio formats and to the formats your TV has the ability to decode. TV's are usually limited to Dolby Digital. This will obviously be mixed down into 2 channels so that it can be output via the TV's speakers. Not all TVs with DD decoding can passthrough multichannel audio, but some can output it via their optical audio output.
 
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deblee

Novice Member
B**ger, will defo need the 310 with 2 HDMI's then, wish I had bought a 3d receiver when I got mine now
 

deblee

Novice Member
If you don't use the amp at all and just output to the TV then you'll be limited to non HD audio formats and to the formats your TV has the ability to decode. TV's are usually limited to Dolby Digital. This will obviously be mixed down into 2 channels so that it can be output via the TV's speakers. Not all TVs with DD decoding can passthrough multichannel audio, but some can output it via their optical audio output.

mmm I think the TV does output DD through its optical port so I guess I could do that, ie HDMI from 110 to TV then optical to receiver, would I get DD from the receiver that way (if selectable from disc) or just 2 channels?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
mmm I think the TV does output DD through its optical port so I guess I could do that, ie HDMI from 110 to TV then optical to receiver, would I get DD from the receiver that way (if selectable from disc) or just 2 channels?

If your TV has the ability then yes, you'll be able to passthrough DD 5.1. Note that multichannel DTS, PCM and the HD formats will not be supported.
 

Kilian

Novice Member
Apart from the panny 310 are there any other 2 hdmi players around
I know of the oppo but that's currently £500

Pioneer BDP-LX55

mmm I think the TV does output DD through its optical port so I guess I could do that, ie HDMI from 110 to TV then optical to receiver, would I get DD from the receiver that way (if selectable from disc) or just 2 channels?

No need to route audio through TV.

You can still have 2CH HD audio as PCM (player does decoding and downmixing to stereo) to pass to TV via HDMI if TV can accept it and plays through TV speakers. Usually it's no more than 16-bit or 24-bit 48kHz for BD films.

Or you can use optical or coaxial from player to receiver (the 110 has optical out) for DD and dts 5.1 audio, or 2CH PCM, and HDMI to TV for 3D video.

So it is a compromise, either lossy MCH or only 2CH 'HD' PCM.
 

deblee

Novice Member
okay so optical from player to the Sony for sound, then HDMI to TV for 3D pics from the same 3d disc?
So I lose HD sound on "anything" output from the 3d bluray player.
Would be nice I guess to have 2 HDMI's so I can have that but not such a big deal I guess:(
 

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