Do you support the Johnson deal [3 October version]?

Do you support the Johnson deal as detailed to Parliament on 3 October 2019?


  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
It is a no from me but I was surprised by the vocal support for it in the main thread. The deal seems to be a load of nonsense aimed to excite Tories rather than be a sensible offer, but some seem to think it's good.

It will be interesting to see the split in votes.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
It is a no from me but I was surprised by the vocal support for it in the main thread. The deal seems to be a load of nonsense aimed to excite Tories rather than be a sensible offer, but some seem to think it's good.

It will be interesting to see the split in votes.
I wasn't surprised :D
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Go on then, how many gave it "vocal" support?

None, it's a text platform :laugh:

Seriously though, how many are supporting it?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Go on then, how many gave it "vocal" support?

None, it's a text platform :laugh:

Seriously though, how many are supporting it?
I wouldn't assume anyone as that wouldn't be fair (and likely start a war :D ), but I think most who want to leave with a deal appear happy with it. Even perhaps with those who have also preferred No Deal.

Looking at it another way, I've not seen any objection to the deal from any Leavers. Unless I've missed it. For which I apologize.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't assume anyone as that wouldn't be fair (and likely start a war :D ), but I think most who want to leave with a deal appear happy with it. Even perhaps with those who have also preferred No Deal.

Looking at it another way, I've not seen any objection to the deal from any Leavers. Unless I've missed it. For which I apologize.
Why would there be. On the surface of it that is not a bad deal for the U.K. unlike the previous proposal which had some serious red line in it that are for the U.K.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I was amused at those on here who actually supported May's deal.
 

sebbykin

Distinguished Member
It's not a deal. Any proposal is a good thing as it allows for further negotiations.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
It's not a deal. Any proposal is a good thing as it allows for further negotiations.
I thought it would be useful to see how many people support the plan as proposed to Parliament. I think the final iteration will be very different and perhaps we can have a seperate poll on that in due course.

But in the meantime it is a chance for people to express support, or not, for Johnson's plan.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
I support the proposal as further negotiations and a deal is better than leaving without one in my opinion. As such voted yes.
 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
It's probably not going to be that different from May's deal, just a few words changed here and there. That's if Johnson compromises to get to the negotiation stage. Which he probably won't, based on his do or die pledge.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
It's probably not going to be that different from May's deal, just a few words changed here and there. That's if Johnson compromises to get to the negotiation stage. Which he probably won't, based on his do or die pledge.
That is because in general the WA wasn’t so bad. It’s the backstop arrangements that cause the problem. All it needed was a tweak, but the EU kept on saying non.
 

kav

Distinguished Member
No but it can be built and negotiated upon to reach something workable.
 

kav

Distinguished Member
Not likely enough time without an extension though. All part of Johnson's plan.
Yes agreed. I said earlier 31 January would probably be enough time to work something out now that the UK government is showing they're willing to compromise. If they fail to extend it won't be for any good reason, it will be because of Johnson's hubris.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Yes agreed. I said earlier 31 January would probably be enough time to work something out now that the UK government is showing they're willing to compromise. If they fail to extend it won't be for any good reason, it will be because of Johnson's hubris.
Yeah if he is serious about getting a deal then he'll extend if the EU say they will work with the proposal.

They could end up calling his bluff on it in fact. Then he will get the blame if they offer and he refuses.

An extension just means we stay members and they'll get to see what happens in a GE. A win win for them.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
What is the point of an extension when there are no specific issues being raised?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
What is the point of an extension when there are no specific issues being raised?
I don't believe for one minute Johnson is serious about this. But let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a moment and say he is.

If the EU say they can work with the proposals he's put forward, but further negotiation is needed to thrash out the finer details to a mutually agreeable arrangement, then it would be irresponsible to not extend the deadline.

In reality what is a few more months when we've waited 3 years? If it means securing a deal that avoids a no deal. And thus putting an end to this phase.

There should be no-one displeased with this; it delivers on the referendum, avoids No Deal, and Johnson becomes the man that sorted Brexit and proved all his doubters fools.

What can possibly go wrong? o_O :laugh:
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
If Boris agrees an extension he is toast
I think most reasonable people would be happy with a short extension if the Prime Minister was closing in on a deal. Johnson sold his leadership bid on a "million to one" chance of no deal so his supporters clearly want a deal. He has much work to do before his deal is acceptable:

1. He needs to sort out the Stormont position to eliminate any DUP veto.

2. He needs to ensure that Northern Ireland (if not the whole of the UK) stays in the Customs Union to protect the GFA and the EU Single Market.

3. He needs to sort out the contradictory waffle emerging from his Government and give clear, precise plans that can be scrutinised.

...and after all that he needs to get the deal approved by the EU Parliament and Westminster. The latter will also need to pass all the necessary legislation. That is a lot to get done in 15 days. With the Tory conference done and dusted, Johnson can now bend and flex as required and, I think, also gives him space for a small extension.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
I don't believe for one minute Johnson is serious about this. But let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a moment and say he is.

If the EU say they can work with the proposals he's put forward, but further negotiation is needed to thrash out the finer details to a mutually agreeable arrangement, then it would be irresponsible to not extend the deadline.

In reality what is a few more months when we've waited 3 years? If it means securing a deal that avoids a no deal. And thus putting an end to this phase.

There should be no-one displeased with this; it delivers on the referendum, avoids No Deal, and Johnson becomes the man that sorted Brexit and proved all his doubters fools.

What can possibly go wrong? o_O :laugh:
As I have said several times, when there are specifics then I fully agree. But everyone keeps on being vague about which clauses or what points to use a possible extension for. Funnily enough, that is exactly the reason the EU originally wouldn't entertain an extension.

This situation needs to come to a close. You close by being very clear about what is outstanding and where there is disagreement. The time has past for general statement like what ROI is doing, and how Corbyn is reaction to this.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
I think most reasonable people would be happy with a short extension if the Prime Minister was closing in on a deal. Johnson sold his leadership bid on a "million to one" chance of no deal so his supporters clearly want a deal. He has much work to do before his deal is acceptable:

1. He needs to sort out the Stormont position to eliminate any DUP veto.

2. He needs to ensure that Northern Ireland (if not the whole of the UK) stays in the Customs Union to protect the GFA and the EU Single Market.

3. He needs to sort out the contradictory waffle emerging from his Government and give clear, precise plans that can be scrutinised.

...and after all that he needs to get the deal approved by the EU Parliament and Westminster. The latter will also need to pass all the necessary legislation. That is a lot to get done in 15 days. With the Tory conference done and dusted, Johnson can now bend and flex as required and, I think, also gives him space for a small extension.
1 Why? Why start interfering in a political system that was chosen locally, and they got into a mess locally. Interfering with the balance of power is not good. Besides, that doesn't sit with the party as we all know.
2 :confused::confused::confused::facepalm: That would not be leaving the EU. That is just daft and will drag this on forever.
 

gamerste

Active Member
Do or die we will leave on the 31st October.
If he doesn't take that extension if it gets handed to him by the EU to continue to work through a deal,where does he go then.
He says he wants a deal but what if he then refuses to talk to the EU about a deal?
And insists it's no deal?
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
I think most reasonable people would be happy with a short extension if the Prime Minister was closing in on a deal. Johnson sold his leadership bid on a "million to one" chance of no deal so his supporters clearly want a deal. He has much work to do before his deal is acceptable:

1. He needs to sort out the Stormont position to eliminate any DUP veto.

2. He needs to ensure that Northern Ireland (if not the whole of the UK) stays in the Customs Union to protect the GFA and the EU Single Market.

3. He needs to sort out the contradictory waffle emerging from his Government and give clear, precise plans that can be scrutinised.

...and after all that he needs to get the deal approved by the EU Parliament and Westminster. The latter will also need to pass all the necessary legislation. That is a lot to get done in 15 days. With the Tory conference done and dusted, Johnson can now bend and flex as required and, I think, also gives him space for a small extension.
He has a deal that can get through Parliament - if he changes it to what you want it wont get through Parliament.

So any extension is pointless - he will be toast.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
He has a deal that can get through Parliament - if he changes it to what you want it wont get through Parliament.
If he doesn't change it, then it won't pass by the EU which makes the Westminister arithmetic academic.

So any extension is pointless - he will be toast.
He won't be 'toast'. I think the vast majority of us realise that Johnson has a record of 'mistruths' so what he says and does don't always match. An extension can be put in that category and I don't think people will mind if he can cite a meaningful purpose, i.e. an extension to get a deal over the line.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
If he doesn't change it, then it won't pass by the EU which makes the Westminister arithmetic academic.
so the only option is to leave with no deal


He won't be 'toast'. I think the vast majority of us realise that Johnson has a record of 'mistruths' so what he says and does don't always match. An extension can be put in that category and I don't think people will mind if he can cite a meaningful purpose, i.e. an extension to get a deal over the line.
Those against Johnson want him gone now and those supporting him will only continue that support if he does what he says. If he goes back on his word he is toast - and he knows it.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Those against Johnson want him gone now and those supporting him will only continue that support if he does what he says. If he goes back on his word he is toast - and he knows it.
Have you seen the latest Government submission to the ongoing Scottish court case? Johnson will request an extension if no deal has been agreed by 19 October.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Or he can say he has in good conscience done everything he could within the law to leave on the 31st but his hands are now tied by those too cowardly to go to the ballot box. It might even work.
 

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