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Do you need a progressive scan DVD player..

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by CrackDown, May 26, 2003.

  1. CrackDown

    CrackDown
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    when you want to view dvds using a projector? Will there be obvious noticable differences between one and a normal DVD player?

    Thanks
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Depends on the projector and it depends on the DVD player. Not all PJ's have same de-interlacing abilities just as not all PS DVD players are of same performance.

    Gordon

    Give us an example of what you are considering
     
  3. CrackDown

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    A Sanyo Z1
     
  4. Aydon

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    I would also be interested in this.

    I am getting a Z1 and have a Sony DVP-S725 (Which I belive is NOT Prog scan).

    I have been informed that it might be worth while paying out for an i-scan pro (Or similar) to make the picture better.

    Would be interested in people's thoughts.
     
  5. severnsource

    severnsource
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    I would say that it's not worth buying an external deinterlacer for the Z1.

    Some people have criticised the Z1s scaler, but I think that it is actually pretty good. The only artifacts that I see that could be blamed on it are the occasional appearance of line pairing on mid tones.

    I have tried using a PC with various software DVD players which are supposed to improve quality, partly by doing the scaling/ deinterlacing with the PC, but the improvement in quality is minimal (apart from being able to see all the raster).

    Bill
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    What graphics card did you use?

    Did you use the vga output?

    Gary.
     
  7. severnsource

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    The graphics cards in the computer that I used had the ATI radeon 9000 chipset. I think they were a no name clone, but I tend to lose track of which cards are in which computer.

    Yes, I used the VGA output, as I use RGB for my other sources. Using s-video and composite certainly do reduce the image quality.

    Bill
     
  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Ok - no probs there then. :)

    I seem to remember that someone had seen a noticable improvement using a HK DVD25 with PS into their Z1, and had posted pics too - definately a better image.

    I just wondered why you weren't seeing the same improvements...

    Gary.
     
  9. calscot

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    severn source,

    I've got a very poor opinion of the Z1 deinterlacer and plan to buy a prog scan dvd player when the next generation of them come out.

    If you're saying that it won't improve the picture then I'm very, very worried...

    The Z1 produces loads of interlacing artifacts - line twitter on thin horizontal lines, jaggies on bright diagonal lines (eg the strip chrome on the top of a car door, lines on football pitch), moire on fixed patterns and parallel lines, low resolution on moving scenes.

    It is not unwatchable but I would definitely prefer to have them removed as it makes the picture less immersive as it's less realistic.

    There is no way it does pixel by pixel, motion adaptive deinterlacing but probably does a basic bob and weave based on large sections of the screen.

    PC deinterlacers do not have the best reviews here. The iScan Ultra has the best review overall and you can get it for around £525 which is pretty good since it was originally about a grand. Out of my price range though.

    I'm waiting for the new Sony 9 series which should be about £270 and give me a better DAC and SACD as well as prog scan.

    Cheers,
    Callum.
     
  10. baltar

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    I also have asked myself the same question. How does Progressive scan improve my picture on my Nec vT440 projector. I have a Sony DVP-S725D DVD-player.

    The answer is quite simple: connect your projector to your computer and look if see any difference.

    I didn't see any difference between my interlaced Sony DVP-S725D and my computer but in this way you can't look at the two images together so only a significant image improvement will be noticeable.

    I think that the Sony DVP-S725D is quite a good interlaced player.


    Good Luck.
     
  11. avanzato

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    calscot:

    Prog scan from my Panny S75 DVD into my Z1 is *much* better than the PJ can produce from an interlaced source, it looks smoother.

    IMO the Z1 seems to have a good scaler but a basic de-interlacer.


    severnsource:

    I tried a HTPC on the Z1 and prefer the picture from the DVD player. Also having to reselect the VGA picture sttings on the Z1 every time it was restarted got to be a major pain.
     
  12. joe davis

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    hi .Do you need a progressive scan DVD player..
    i have got nec vt440 projector to pc vga output. graphics card geforce4 ti4200. and it is not as good as my.pioneer dv737 prog scan .big improvement to the picture.
     
  13. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hi Joe,

    that's unusual for a DVD player to be better than an HTPC, though I wonder if it's because you're not using a Radeon card.

    Because the HTPC is generaly far better at deinterlacing and scaling than any DVD player or projector, you normaly get a better, more detailed picture.

    However, I do find that some software players bring out a lot more unwanted background noise that can detract from an otherwise excellent image, and in some case I've actualy prefered something like a Pioneer 656 because it can produce a smoother more solid image, with little noise which can be distracting.

    Progressive scan is another step forward in image quality from interlaced, and nearly always produces a better picture.

    Gary.
     
  14. joe davis

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    hi gary
    the software power dvd and theatertak dvd.

    as you say. not using radeon card.

    progressive scan looks the best to me.






    thanks joe.
     
  15. calscot

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    That's funny, if you go to the secrets site you'll find reviews which totally state the opposite.

    The software players are particularly bad at video deinterlacing and as well as when there are bad flags or edits. They also seem to introduce noise. None of the software players are recommended and are very dependent on the video capture card and graphics card. All of them also have the 4:2:0 chroma bug.

    It's hard to imagine that a free software deinterlacer will be better than a good (and expensive) hardware one like Faroudja or Silicon Image and if I'm wrong, are people really stupid buying DVD players with them?

    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  16. calscot

    calscot
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    PS I thought the main reason for using PC was the 1:1 pixel mapping? This can't be done by a DVD player.

    It's also a cheap solution for DVD, deinterlacing and scaling.

    It's especially cheap due to the fact it can also be used as for Internet, PVR, MP3 Jukebox, CD ripping and burning, games machine and of course as a PC!

    Cheers,
    Cal
     
  17. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I'm currently using PowerDVD XP4 with my HT1000 (Radeon HTPC), and I'm getting a better picture than I saw with some standalone players. So much so, I'm no longer in a rush to get one. However, as I mentioned before, I do prefer a less detailed image that has a smoother look to it than the images I was getting with WinDVD, which were quite harsh and noisy in comparioson.

    As for the chroma upsampling error, I haven't seen it in my htpc, and I do play Toy Story 2 quite a lot. :)

    The newer pjs with Faroudja etc do a good job, and so you no longer need a htpc. It wasn't that long ago that data projectors were all that were really affordable for home cinema, and thay had appaling deinterlacers and scalers, so htpc was a necessary evil.

    Home theater projectors have come along way in 3 years, and those with half decent scalers will only ned a half decent player to get an acceptable image. :)

    Gary.
     
  18. dis

    dis
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    Hi gary
    Thanks for the info
    Sorry a bit late with the return my computer was up the creek speak to you again
    Thanks once again……dis
     
  19. Rob.Screene

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    I think Gary ment that the HTPC is good at deinterlacing film mode DVD's, which technically isn't deinterlacing, but is 2:2 or 2:3 pulldown removal and can be done perfectly with no interlacing or deinterlacing artefacts. For this, I agree with Gary that the HTPC is very good.

    It's when the DVD is video mode, interlaced material or badly flagged or edited film material (which is reportedly common) or just about any DVD menu sequence that the HTPC's current deinterlacing is poor.

    For example TheaterTek is apparently better with DXVA hardware accelleration disabled when watching a video mode DVD, but most users report hardware mode looks best otherwise.

    Well, that is, unless using TheaterTek with the DirectShow video post-processor; ffdshow. With this, noise reduction and bilinear scaling and shapening features are available, but DXVA cannot be used. Perhaps the dscaler deinterlacing might be useable now/soon with it?, perhaps this might include dscaler pulldown detection removal? Trouble is, it is hard to set-up and use for both NTSC and PAL and really pushes even a 2GHz+ HTPC hard, especially with DirectShow being occasionally troublesom for many users too.

    I'm thinking of trying a holo3dgraph and component outputs from my Sony 725 DVD to see it and it's fli2200 DCDi de-interlacing and good Sony MPEG decoding compares to TheaterTek. If it's notceably smoother, I'd then look at an SDI output upgade for the Sony, or probably just a new domestic player with SDI already fitted.

    In counterpoint;

    I do like being able to timeshift rental DVD's on to hard disk, and would miss that ability.

    I also like DVDautorefresh doing automatic PAL/NTSC refresh rate switching on insert (probably not important for LCD/panel users), plus the automatic wide aspect ratio switching of TheaterTek, plus the automatic region setting of RegionKiller. I think these all become a manual remote button press or two with the holo3dgraph/domestic player.

    I'd also miss the movie start feature that allows me to pre-set the soundtrack and start point when inserting a disc. But then again the Sony allows the ff over the FBI screens as part of it's region free mod.

    regards,
    Rob.
     
  20. homeroids

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    Has anyone tried using a Hollywood Plus hardware decoder on a PC to see what the results are like with progressive scan output from the PC?

    I have ordered the Pany ae-300 and should get it next week. I have a Toshiba sd-1300 DVD player (cheap model) but will definitely try the HTPC method of delivery. I got 3 PC's so using one aint going to be an issue :).
     
  21. Kramer

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    One of the other benefits of a HCPC is the ability to "pixel match" the output to your PJs native panel resolution, thereby negating any scaling necessary by your PJ.

    1:1 pixel mapping isn't achieveable with the AE300 (either via VGA or DVI), thereby negating much of the advantages derived by using a HCPC.

    Some have achieved 1:1, but only utilising some of the AE300's panels - not ideal.

    :smoke:
     
  22. browsking

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    HI,

    I'm on a really tight budget and have a panny ae100. I initially linkerd this to a lg3200e (no prog scan) picture was ok. Splashed out 150 notes on Cambridge Audio DVD 55 (prog and interlace scan) picture is hugely improved, smoother on pans, more 'film' like, sharper. Great pictures for under a grand, all in..............
     

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