Do you guys think Epson & JVC are releasing new projectors this year?

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Agreed. jVc historically have released projectors with incremental upgrades very frequently. Sadly I think covid had just ruined the tech community for a couple of years.

gpu land we’ve seen similar stagnation ;(
I think personally this is a good thing. The incremental updates that have been made available through the almost yearly updates JVC used to do were much less significant than JVC has done for free firmware updates to the N series in the form of the DTM upgrade. Previously that would have been the kind of feature JVC would have milked a new model out of.

This is better for the consumer - free significant feature updates, used values of projectors not being hammered because after a few month's ownership they're an old model, etc etc.

Just look at the previous ranges; X3/X30/X500, then X5000, X5500, X5900 - what really got better for the consumer across those ranges, other than mostly small firmware features that could have just as easily been added to the earlier models? There were some lamp and light path improvements between the X500 and X5000, but you're looking at pretty much 10 years of shipping projectors in basically the same design.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
And now we’ve said all of that JVC will come out with an all new miniaturised laser design in the N series price points. QMS and other aspects of the 2.1 spec are all on board.

Epson will make a native UHD laser LS10500 successor that undercuts the latest laser n series from JVC and everybody is happy.

We can certainly dream. :laugh:
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Yeah I saw the chat on a similar AVS thread. Fascinating stuff. Perhaps Epson are working hard on their laser followup for the consumer space. LS10500 successor with native UHD, maybe even a bit of on board DTM.

At this point I feel like that’s more likely than JVC releasing new models.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Would be nice, but with JVC seemingly only getting 1280-1600 lumens in the N series chassis with laser for the simulation market, I'm not sure it will happen yet, as I'm not sure that would be compelling against the brighter Sony units.


Ouch. Lumens very important. I'd take more lumens on a bulb over a laser personally.

I'd be pretty happy with an N5 packing 2100 lumens or some form of upgrade like that. For those with bigger screens or who are planning to upgrade screen size,would feel a little safer with some extra lumens.

I wouldn't want to lose lumens in order to get a laser packed into the chassis. As much as I do adore the advantages of laser... I feel for HDR on smaller screens and even SDR on larger screens (140''+) the lumens are more important than instead on+off, stability and fade to black.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
It would be the stability and convenience of a laser light source for me. Minimal drift over time and simply not having to mess about with lamps would be great.

How loud would a miniaturised laser in an Nseries chassis be? Flight sim and scientific projection aside, you take laser projection for the home market currently in a Z1 size, shrink it down whilst simultaneously boosting the lumens. Considering that the Z1 is loud enough for many to be kept in another room, how loud would a smaller version be?! Im all for laser in an N series design but if the thing is sounding like it wants to take off it might not be time to switch from lamps just yet.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I have a question, I need to upgrade but funds only allow £2k max. Looking at 2nd hand. Would you go for the Epson TW9400 (with part warranty left) or a native 4k Sony which are 5 years old now (and no warranty)?
which Sony is it mate? Some of the older ones are not very good lumen wise
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
I would see what you think of the Epson motion handling. Ken raises a good point about the lumens of the older Sony’s, 9400 is nice and bright, I couldn’t stand the motion on it though.
 

howieeb

Active Member
Like many people i'd like more lumens and contrast on the 4K JVCs. HDMI 2.1 support etc too. But don't think this will happen. I'd settle for better DI implemtnation - people are still complaining re. yellow fringing - and something a little more reliable and consistent between batches. I'm not saying the current crop are bad, far from it, but there are too many blue stipes issues going on on on AVS and the variance in contrast/lumens between units seems more than usual. Given the time between iterations I don't think these wants are too far fetched and anythign else would be gravy.
 

Superhans

Active Member
Forgive my ignorance but why is it so problematic to increase lumens on a bulb projector? Is it the extra heat and noise? I always assumed you had to balance out lumens and contrast. Some cheaper projectors seem to have 2500 lumens?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I would see what you think of the Epson motion handling. Ken raises a good point about the lumens of the older Sony’s, 9400 is nice and bright, I couldn’t stand the motion on it though.


I agree. Don't think motion is that good on Epson. Luckily I've come from a LG OLED which has pretty crap motion so it was trading blows.

My Sony HW40ES was smooth as butter.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Forgive my ignorance but why is it so problematic to increase lumens on a bulb projector? Is it the extra heat and noise? I always assumed you had to balance out lumens and contrast. Some cheaper projectors seem to have 2500 lumens?
i think u hit the nail on the head mate; contrast.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
I agree. Don't think motion is that good on Epson. Luckily I've come from a LG OLED which has pretty crap motion so it was trading blows.

My Sony HW40ES was smooth as butter.
Ive just gone back to LG OLED with the C1, the motion is better than it was a few years ago but the JVC projector it might be replacing is still better .
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Ive just gone back to LG OLED with the C1, the motion is better than it was a few years ago but the JVC projector it might be replacing is still better .
I've heard the C1 with its new trumotion cinema setting is great. when I had my CX it was not good at all. The inherent OLED stutter I couldn't get on with, especially anime. :(

which jvc is it replacing?
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
It’s replacing an X9500, possibly :laugh: I’m still in two minds about letting it go. I did have a CX and didn’t think much of its motion handling, but changed out for the C1 for the change in motion you point out. Only arrived today so haven't had much chance to check it out.

Next step is probably to the Sony side if the motion is bothersome.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
It’s replacing an X9500, possibly :laugh: I’m still in two minds about letting it go. I did have a CX and didn’t think much of its motion handling, but changed out for the C1 for the change in motion you point out. Only arrived today so haven't had much chance to check it out.

Next step is probably to the Sony side if the motion is bothersome.

I've heard the C1 motion is really good and trades blows with the Sony from most reviews. If you game, then the HDMI 2.1 options on the LG make it a clear step up from the Sony OLEDs.

with oleds, i think motion interpolation is always needed tbh... and sony I've heard has over processed this year and has baked in picture and motion interpolation which is never good..!
 

DaViD Boulet

Standard Member
The JVC "N" series getting laser light source (and possibly HDMI 2.1) may not be a dream after all.

This has also been posted at AVS:


Naturally this is not yet confirmed by JVC... and likely won't be confirmed or refuted until their Cedia event. However, it does appear to be a credible report.

Using google translate, here's a noteworthy snippet:

BLU-ECENT LASER LIGHT​

The most spectacular innovation is undoubtedly the laser light technology BLU-Ecent, which JVC implemented years ago in the Pro models. These are now also moving into the housings of the JVC DLA-N series. The projectors were designed three years ago to accommodate conventional UHP lamps as well as support other lighting technologies such as lasers and LEDs. This is made possible by the modular design.

BLU-Ecent is similar to the previously used UHP lamps of the N series, except that white light is produced by a

lamp. Instead, blue laser diodes are used in the projector. The blue light is captured and passed through a partially reflective filter. This filter reflects some of the blue light unchanged to illuminate the blue D-ILA panel. The rest of the light goes from the filter to the phosphor element (see graphic above). Red and green are emitted from the yellow light.






According to my current information, the luminous efficacy is quantified as follows: – 2,000 lumens for the 4K laser entry-level model – 2,500 lumens for the medium 4K laser model – 3,000 lumens for the top laser model This means a significant increase in luminous efficacy compared to the N series.



More should not be possible for technical reasons at the moment, because in addition, the cooling can apparently not be granted. This probably requires much larger packages so that the D-ILA chips are not damaged.

The advantage of BLU-Ecent laser light technology is its longevity.

The service life is up to 30,000 hours. To illustrate this service life in practice. With five hours of film fun per day, that's over 16 years.

advantage of
BLU-Ecent laser technology is that no so-called laser speckle is generated.
These are effects that look like image noise. In addition, the color space P3 is to be fully covered within the Rec.2020 color spectrum.

 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The JVC "N" series getting laser light source (and possibly HDMI 2.1) may not be a dream after all.

This has also been posted at AVS:


Naturally this is not yet confirmed by JVC... and likely won't be confirmed or refuted until their Cedia event. However, it does appear to be a credible report.

Using google translate, here's a noteworthy snippet:

BLU-ECENT LASER LIGHT​

The most spectacular innovation is undoubtedly the laser light technology BLU-Ecent, which JVC implemented years ago in the Pro models. These are now also moving into the housings of the JVC DLA-N series. The projectors were designed three years ago to accommodate conventional UHP lamps as well as support other lighting technologies such as lasers and LEDs. This is made possible by the modular design.

BLU-Ecent is similar to the previously used UHP lamps of the N series, except that white light is produced by a

lamp. Instead, blue laser diodes are used in the projector. The blue light is captured and passed through a partially reflective filter. This filter reflects some of the blue light unchanged to illuminate the blue D-ILA panel. The rest of the light goes from the filter to the phosphor element (see graphic above). Red and green are emitted from the yellow light.






According to my current information, the luminous efficacy is quantified as follows: – 2,000 lumens for the 4K laser entry-level model – 2,500 lumens for the medium 4K laser model – 3,000 lumens for the top laser model This means a significant increase in luminous efficacy compared to the N series.



More should not be possible for technical reasons at the moment, because in addition, the cooling can apparently not be granted. This probably requires much larger packages so that the D-ILA chips are not damaged.

The advantage of BLU-Ecent laser light technology is its longevity.

The service life is up to 30,000 hours. To illustrate this service life in practice. With five hours of film fun per day, that's over 16 years.

advantage of
BLU-Ecent laser technology is that no so-called laser speckle is generated.
These are effects that look like image noise. In addition, the color space P3 is to be fully covered within the Rec.2020 color spectrum.



It doesn't seem like these are comparable to the N-series if the prices quoted are to be believed.

If they are matching the price of current N-series; fine. But as far as I'm aware, this seems to be a separate range whilst letting the N5 and N7 continue to co-exist?

To me, it feels like JVC have just extended their pro series if the quoted pricing is to be believed lol.

I think £6.5k is already a lot of for an N5. If they are pushing the price bracket further for the next gen laser editions of the units; then we are going into mental pricing terrirtory lol.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
The added expense is a lot compared to the N series currently on sale but if you are the type to use a projector like a regular TV then the combination of bulbs and pro calibrations would justify the price.

I’m hoping that in the near future this will either drive down the price of the regular N series or gee up Epson to introduce a 4k unit of their own.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The added expense is a lot compared to the N series currently on sale but if you are the type to use a projector like a regular TV then the combination of bulbs and pro calibrations would justify the price.

I’m hoping that in the near future this will either drive down the price of the regular N series or gee up Epson to introduce a 4k unit of their own.


Epson are in trouble IMO. And as far as I know they have no CEDIA presence so unlikely any new products to show us.

They are behind in resolution, contrast, features and tone mapping which translated to worse HDR and SDR performance across the board.

Their only saving grace is JVC have decided not to compete in their price bracket. If JVC pull a budget model out of their butt then Epson are in trouble lol.
 

Eddie 209

Novice Member
Hello all - this is my first post.

Epson 9400 (and the 9300 beforehand) seems to have been the very dominant projector in that price range for several years now. From reading reviews of the new LG810 looks like it really upsets that situation. The combination of both laser and dynamic tone mapping offers two reasons to favour it over the 9400. If LG start to take customers away from EPSON then I would expect Epson to do something about it.

I have no knowledge of market or product development. But it looks to me like some dynamic tone mapping for Epson would be a realisable enhancement, and it wouldn't require as much re-engineering as moving to laser or a native 4K chip.

Does anyone have thoughts around that?
 

markymiles

Distinguished Member
Hello all - this is my first post.

Epson 9400 (and the 9300 beforehand) seems to have been the very dominant projector in that price range for several years now. From reading reviews of the new LG810 looks like it really upsets that situation. The combination of both laser and dynamic tone mapping offers two reasons to favour it over the 9400. If LG start to take customers away from EPSON then I would expect Epson to do something about it.

I have no knowledge of market or product development. But it looks to me like some dynamic tone mapping for Epson would be a realisable enhancement, and it wouldn't require as much re-engineering as moving to laser or a native 4K chip.

Does anyone have thoughts around that?
I think that would be sensible from Epson. Maybe try and tweak the cinema filter so it doesn't lower the light output as much also. Then they would be in a more competitive position for HDR.

4K would require a completely new design so that may not happen?!? Not so important anyway in my opinion. Resolution isn't so noticeable in all the comparison's I've seen and not the determining factor for image quality.
 

Harold88

Member
The combination of both laser and dynamic tone mapping

You forgot another thing, a very poor contrast ratio of 300:1.

Is it possible to have something more decent, above 1000:1 but with laser dimmed very much, to the point where is not usable on any screen larger than 100 inch.

Unfortunately this LG is not designed very well, despite having the latest technology inside.

An old Benq W2000 will blow it out of the water contrast wise.
 
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