Do you guys think Epson & JVC are releasing new projectors this year?

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I do agree with you that there is always room for improvement, it’s just that the N5 took such a lot of saving and selling of other stuff for me personally, that the changes would have to be titanic to make me want to upgrade. And I don’t believe the next range will be improved by anything like the degree the N series has since its release.

Yes a laser engine would be great but how likely is that for anything near the existing price? And I don’t understand the Sony approach to projectors now, they used to be brilliant. If anything, for me Epson could do something amazing with a laser and bring it in under the N5 or N7 - that really would be an incredible proposition and look what they’ve achieved with the 9400 for half the price of the cheapest JVC.


Is the 9400 really that much of an accomplishment? I used to own a 9400 and now have a 9300 and they're essentially the same projector in real term usage outside of:
1. HDR slider
2. 18gbps HDMI chipset.

I think the fact that JVCs are so expensive and Epsons are.. well just sensibly priced and in line with their previous prices; have made people forget how little progress Epson have made compared to JVC.

JVC did a chassis redesign, DTM, they've increased their lumens throughout the past few generations (since X5000) whilst maintaining a phenomenal contrast etc. Their software and preset options are light years ahead of Epson too.


I think if anything, Epson even with the 9400 have been stagnant if you bring into context the 9300. Both similar contrast, both similar lumen output, both very similar picture processing, and both faux 4K (aka not native), both same dark chip LCD, both use even the same bulbs, remote, chassis.

Epson are due a massive overhaul IMO.

Both companies have had nearly 3 years worth of R&D between generations now to release something which can really change the PJ world. Its a massive oppurtunity as covid has caused a lot more people to do home cinemas.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
For someone like myself, who is ready to buy in the next month or so, do you think it's worth waiting until September time to see if they bring out new models, allowing me to pick up something like a reduced Epson 9400? Didn't realise that September was a usual release point.


Yes, definitely wait. If you need to buy something to get you by, buy something which is around the £1000 second hand which will hold its resale value very well.

For example, a second hand JVC X5000 or an Epson 9300 will likely not drop that much further in resale value and will still give you PQ nearly equal (in 9300 case) or better (in the X5000+ case) than the 9400.

9400 is a phenomenal PJ FYI and an absolutely beast for value for money; but I think even the biggest 9400 fan will not argue that its now a bit old and one of the oldest Epson projectors re: life span.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
I couldn’t stand the motion on the 9400, as excellent a projector as it was and it really doesn’t have any competition at that price point.

Agreed that laser even at 1-2k more than current pricing of the n series would tempt current owners into upgrading.

I don’t think that JVC will bring new models though, they didn’t keep the free DTM update for a newer series and that was released only some months ago. That decision tells me they are doing well sales wise and simply wanted to solidify sales further knowing that the upcoming Sony lacked DTM. Why would you release revised N series, which I’m sure are ready, when you can continue sales with little competition for a while longer? Sony didn’t present enough of a sales detractor for them to warrant release of a new lineup.

I think we’ve entered a period of stagnation in terms of competition. Epson could bring it back with a vengeance by releasing a LS10500 successor, I’d probably buy one in a heart beat (depending on motion). Sony are great but require more outlay due to the lack of any on board DTM, and at those price points you would be mad not to consider DTM as essential in your setup.

JVC are really sitting too comfortably right now, they can hold off release of new models and recoup more R&D cost than they probably planned for years ago when designing N series (not a bad thing for them financially). Anyone researching projectors higher tier than the 9400 are weighing up only two brands, Sony or JVC. With the additional outlay for an external DTM solution on the Sony front it leaves JVC sitting pretty with its already great, now new and improved baked in DTM solution. For many buyers that’s plenty good enough a DTM solution, and cost saving, even at the £7-8K mark is still important to many buying these machines.

JVC are really just waiting on Sony or Epson to make a competitive move IMO.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
ffers compared to the competition!
I couldn’t stand the motion on the 9400, as excellent a projector as it was and it really doesn’t have any competition at that price point.

Agreed that laser even at 1-2k more than current pricing of the n series would tempt current owners into upgrading.

I don’t think that JVC will bring new models though, they didn’t keep the free DTM update for a newer series and that was released only some months ago. That decision tells me they are doing well sales wise and simply wanted to solidify sales further knowing that the upcoming Sony lacked DTM. Why would you release revised N series, which I’m sure are ready, when you can continue sales with little competition for a while longer? Sony didn’t present enough of a sales detractor for them to warrant release of a new lineup.

I think we’ve entered a period of stagnation in terms of competition. Epson could bring it back with a vengeance by releasing a LS10500 successor, I’d probably buy one in a heart beat (depending on motion). Sony are great but require more outlay due to the lack of any on board DTM, and at those price points you would be mad not to consider DTM as essential in your setup.

JVC are really sitting too comfortably right now, they can hold off release of new models and recoup more R&D cost than they probably planned for years ago when designing N series (not a bad thing for them financially). Anyone researching projectors higher tier than the 9400 are weighing up only two brands, Sony or JVC. With the additional outlay for an external DTM solution on the Sony front it leaves JVC sitting pretty with its already great, now new and improved baked in DTM solution. For many buyers that’s plenty good enough a DTM solution, and cost saving, even at the £7-8K mark is still important to many buying these machines.

JVC are really just waiting on Sony or Epson to make a competitive move IMO.
im pretty sure dtm on jvc was released more than months ago mate
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
im pretty sure dtm on jvc was released more than months ago mate
Im talking about the 3.50 update - that was quite significant. It was only released some months ago.

It was a reactionary move to the new Sony release, very timed and deliberate to show the N series prowess in that area. I’m sure if JVC knew the at that time upcoming Sony had any real DTM competition on board they would have considered saving the update for a revised N series in response.

F2637A56-CD86-418D-A32D-F85B7438B1AA.jpeg
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Im talking about the 3.50 update - that was quite significant. It was only released some months ago.

It was a reactionary move to the new Sony release, very timed and deliberate to show the N series prowess in that area. I’m sure if JVC knew the at that time upcoming Sony had any real DTM competition on board they would have considered saving the update for a revised N series in response.

View attachment 1536400

Yeah but DTM frame adapt has been there for ages.

Since 3.1 hdr has been on point

releasing new firmware shouldn’t mean you don’t release be hardware imo. What jvc are doing every company should be doing this day in age
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Yet we aren’t seeing that behaviour from Epson and Sony…

Releasing improved DTM with the v3.50 update was a big move and made the current N series more tempting for potential buyers as the new generation Sony came to market. DTM was on point but that update made a large difference.

What incentive does JVC have to release new machines currently? I’d love for them to release an updated range, but why would they at this time?

I would be extremely happy to be wrong and have a reason to upgrade.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yet we aren’t seeing that behaviour from Epson and Sony…

Releasing improved DTM with the v3.50 update was a big move and made the current N series more tempting for potential buyers as the new generation Sony came to market. DTM was on point but that update made a large difference.

What incentive does JVC have to release new machines currently? I’d love for them to release an updated range, but why would they at this time?

I would be extremely happy to be wrong and have a reason to upgrade.

I think Epson and Sony are behind the times

I don’t think JVC are interested in having the best projector available. They are interested in the making the most money and refreshing their line to provide tangible reasons for people to continue upgrading will provide them with this.

why do companies ever release new models? To get existing customers and new ones to buy a new one.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Agreed, however I think they’re interested in having the most competitive projector available, which they do. I don’t think sales are lacking or dwindling.

N series chassis is ready for a laser light source so they likely have something ready, but again, financials are king and currently they lead the market and have great sales, so why release a revised model now?

Epson really need to release their native 4K product to get things started.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I wish I could speculate as to what any of these manufacturers are intending to do but I can’t. I don’t agree that JVC can sit on their laurels because they have offered more than when the N series was launched, as with every consumable product you have those that just have to have the latest kit and I am sure there will be many who have a current N series will jump at its replacement in the same way we change to the latest iPhones despite it offering little improvement. If JVC already have a replacement near compilation then expect it to be launched on time.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Those who upgrade to the latest kit every release don’t make up the majority of JVC’s N series sales. Just as those who upgrade year on year with iPhone don’t make up the majority of that years iPhone sales.

Product roadmaps change and just because a product is ready and corporate agree 2021 is the year when they roadmap it back in 2018 doesn’t mean it sees release. Sitting on ones laurels certainly comes into things, but the fact that no competition has arisen to the level of the N series offering and you have supply chain issues left, right and centre at present… I can’t see it being a release year for JVC.

Can you give any reasons that make competitive and financial sense for JVC to do so this year?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I wish I could speculate as to what any of these manufacturers are intending to do but I can’t. I don’t agree that JVC can sit on their laurels because they have offered more than when the N series was launched, as with every consumable product you have those that just have to have the latest kit and I am sure there will be many who have a current N series will jump at its replacement in the same way we change to the latest iPhones despite it offering little improvement. If JVC already have a replacement near compilation then expect it to be launched on time.


Agreed. jVc historically have released projectors with incremental upgrades very frequently. Sadly I think covid had just ruined the tech community for a couple of years.

gpu land we’ve seen similar stagnation ;(
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Those who upgrade to the latest kit every release don’t make up the majority of JVC’s N series sales. Just as those who upgrade year on year with iPhone don’t make up the majority of that years iPhone sales.

Product roadmaps change and just because a product is ready and corporate agree 2021 is the year when they roadmap it back in 2018 doesn’t mean it sees release. Sitting on ones laurels certainly comes into things, but the fact that no competition has arisen to the level of the N series offering and you have supply chain issues left, right and centre at present… I can’t see it being a release year for JVC.

Can you give any reasons that make competitive and financial sense for JVC to do so this year?
I didn’t say the majority but a not insignificant amount will be upgrades by existing customers. Like I said I haven’t a clue what any of these brands have in store for us but I reckon if the R&D and tooling has already been done then it would be illogical not to release especially as Covid hasn’t went away and more people than ever are looking at home entertainment rather than venturing out to the local cinemas.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
What people seem to be forgetting is the worldwide shortage of parts at the moment.

Trying to release a new product in the middle of it all spells recipe for disaster, JVC are already struggling with back orders on their current range (they have been pretty much since launch).

Covid has delayed many things, I ordered my new car last month, I’m getting quoted deliver March 2022!! Things won’t improve for a while and I’d be surprised if you see any new JVC model for at least another 12-18 months.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
What people seem to be forgetting is the worldwide shortage of parts at the moment.

Trying to release a new product in the middle of it all spells recipe for disaster, JVC are already struggling with back orders on their current range (they have been pretty much since launch).

Covid has delayed many things, I ordered my new car last month, I’m getting quoted deliver March 2022!! Things won’t improve for a while and I’d be surprised if you see any new JVC model for at least another 12-18 months.
Yeah your point about parts supply is a very valid one that I clean forgot about.

That’s a seriously long time for a car delivery from time of order, what’s the car? A business colleague ordered his Ferrari F8 back in December 2020 and it was delivered June, of any brand I reckon it would have been one of the slowest.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Yeah your point about parts supply is a very valid one that I clean forgot about.

That’s a seriously long time for a car delivery from time of order, what’s the car? A business colleague ordered his Ferrari F8 back in December 2020 and it was delivered June, of any brand I reckon it would have been one of the slowest.
Ferrari F8….nice!!

I’ve ordered a Porsche Taycan
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Sitting on ones laurels certainly comes into things, but the fact that no competition has arisen to the level of the N series offering and you have supply chain issues left, right and centre at present… I can’t see it being a release year for JVC.

Can you give any reasons that make competitive and financial sense for JVC to do so this year?
What people seem to be forgetting is the worldwide shortage of parts at the moment..
Yeah your point about parts supply is a very valid one that I clean forgot about.
:smashin: I’m glad we got there via mb3195 reiterating it.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Ferrari F8….nice!!

I’ve ordered a Porsche Taycan
That’s interesting, the brother is debating between it and the E Tron GT. Going this Tuesday to drive both back to back as he’s sampled the Taycan already. If the dealer quotes March delivery I reckon that will rule out the Taycan for him as he’s car goes back end of January.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
Trying to release a new product in the middle of it all spells recipe for disaster, JVC are already struggling with back orders on their current range (they have been pretty much since launch).
People seem to forget that most manufacturers are facing parts shortages. One example that springs to mind is vehicle manufacturing, sadly longer lead times have become the new normal.
 

djpaulc247

Distinguished Member
One thing to consider as well is shipping costs, prices from China / Far East are ridiculous now which affects buying and selling costs of products.

A 40’ container used to be less than $2,000 to U.K. port but it’s now $15,000+
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Parts shortages I agree with

JVC maximising profit I don’t.

if they could release a new line, I think every manufacturer would.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Parts shortages I agree with

JVC maximising profit I don’t.

if they could release a new line, I think every manufacturer would.
That was the point I was trying to make, if the R&D etc has been done you would want to reap the costs back ASAP. But parts is an issue for sure.
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
They are reaping the costs back and some more… allowing return to run on for longer than originally planned helps them grow and fund new ideas, it’s not a bad thing. If sales are still high and demand sometimes outstrips supply at times why on earth would you not allow your future R&D pot to grow?

Epson are doing just this with the 9400.

It doesn’t always make sense for manufacturers to push out the latest and greatest no matter what. If the competition is not there, the brand isn’t suffering a lack of innovation image, sales are still perfectly good, so why release what you have?

Projector sales are a magnitude slower than the fast paced world of mobile phones and GPU’s; for projector companies it doesn’t make sense to push out what you have at every opportunity.

Again, I would love to see new models, but I don’t think it’s realistic this year.

Do you have any reasoning as to why JVC would release this year? I can see why Epson would (supply chain issues aside).
 

markymiles

Distinguished Member
Agreed, they are running a business after all!! If sales drop that is often a trigger in a products life cycle to innovate and release new products. Absolutely no need for Epson who are leading their price point and JVC who are leading theirs to do anything right now as their sales are still doing just fine.

I haven't seen a single post on the internet saying either will be releasing a new product any time soon, just people getting impatient and speculating.

Not much has changed in requirements for PJ's ie 4K, HDR, WCG. That's about it. It's not like there's new tech needed as they are obsolete.
 

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