Do you feel you still have a voice in the UK?

Everything is about Brexit now. The BBC spent a day talking about the royal engagement and after a bit of that started asking, "shouldn't we deal with the real issues like Trump and Brexit instead?"

Everything is "because Brexit," "despite Brexit." Today the news is people aren't skiing because Brexit.

Is the ski industry on a slippery slope? - Is the ski industry on a slippery slope?

Apparently no one will be able to go to Europe ever again.
 
Is this a thread on Brexit?

Rancid's law - If an AVforum general discussion continues long enough, someone will bring up the subject of Brexit
 
Is this a thread on Brexit?
I think it is inevitable in the context of this topic. Most likely if the sentiment wasn't felt like this, and concerns like the OP voiced were dealt with and able to be discussed without being afraid to be constantly labelled when you say one wrong word in the mind of someone else, then it is entirely possible that Brexit wouldn't be happening.

We'll never know for certain, but I am not surprised it is mentioned in this context.
 
Do you realise if the EU had stayed as the common market we wouldn't be leaving, hence how much disruption they caused?We have shown the EU that people can be pushed too far. The weaker pound has also benefited our balance of trade, our exports and increased tourism. Also we have hit records levels of employment despite the government prediction of what would happen if we left.
New trade deals with the rest of the planet, not be shackled to a failing bureaucracy, not be the EU's cash cow, independence.
Really? Who knew that was your thought?
Exactly. I don't want to pay the EU anything or be shackled to it. I seriously hope no deal is reached.
He has a radio programme. If only there was some kind of resource where you could enter questions and get answers...

The problem is that many people don't understand that the Common Market was ( and is) the most satisfactory interaction that Europe can have. Federal Europe will never happen there are too many divisions in politics, economies and legal systems despite the meddling of Brussels. Bailing Greece out was a classic example, Greece being a country who should never have been allowed membership in the first place but being allowed in on a nod and a wink. There are simply too many takers and not enough contributors in the EU, The EU itself has not ever managed to get its own accounts signed off due to huge anomalies that wont be explained. Its a great idea which was never thought through properly and doomed to fail and one we are well rid of. I'd rather be on the lifeboat than the Titanic and why should the UK be dragged downed by the decisions of faceless unelected Eurocrats who showed their true colurs when we elected to leave. Trade Agreement ( Common Market) yes, EU no lets get back to where we used to be. And how wanting to leave this mess makes anyone racist I cannot for the life of me see.
 
It's fine to dislike loud people. Not racist. Assuming and judging, and treating all Americans because you think they're all like that, that's racist.

Totally racist. Fine to hate the Nazi party for starting the war or perhaps even the man who killed your father, but judging all Germans for something they had no part in or even knew about is racist.

American - not a race
German - not a race

This is exactly the sort of confusion I was talking about in my post on the first page of this thread. Trying to teach my 11 year old exactly what constitutes racism is a proving problematic, because (I believe) she's growing up in a world where the word 'racist' is used when people of the same race say something unpleasant about each other.

Maligning all Americans because the few you meet are a bit loud, or branding all Germans 'Nazis' is not racist, it's a stereotype. Okay, in Germany that particular stereotype, if publically used can land you a 6 month jail sentence, but it wouldn't be a 'racism' offence.

Stating that all black people are muggers would be racist, because an entire race of people are being singled out solely based on the fact that their race differs from yours.

I agree that it can be confusing. What if you said a white muslim was a suicide bomber? I would say it's not racist, but some might deem it to be...

I'll just finish by saying that when using the word 'you' in this post, I mean it from the reader's point of view, not yours @SteakAndCake :smashin:
 
This is exactly the sort of confusion I was talking about in my post on the first page of this thread. Trying to teach my 11 year old exactly what constitutes racism is a proving problematic, because (I believe) she's growing up in a world where the word 'racist' is used when people of the same race say something unpleasant about each other.

Maligning all Americans because the few you meet are a bit loud, or branding all Germans 'Nazis' is not racist, it's a stereotype. Okay, in Germany that particular stereotype, if publically used can land you a 6 month jail sentence, but it wouldn't be a 'racism' offence.

I'd say prejudiced would be more fitting, but it could even be xenophobia if that's a common way of thinking about foreigners for them.

Racism, xenophobia, prejudice are all terms used to describe very similar reactions to people that are different, be that physically, the accident of birth place or by religion or culture. Racism just seems to have been adopted as a catch all term.
 
I'd say prejudiced would be more fitting, but it could even be xenophobia if that's a common way of thinking about foreigners for them.

Racism, xenophobia, prejudice are all terms used to describe very similar reactions to people that are different, be that physically, the accident of birth place or by religion or culture. Racism just seems to have been adopted as a catch all term.

Plus some people think that you cannot be racist unless the perpetrator holds a position of power over the victim. It's the power aspect that moves the harm from prejudice to racism.

Of course, in the West, this can simply mean being white due to innate white privilege so it doesn't really make a difference in real terms.
 
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Racism, xenophobia, prejudice are all terms used to describe very similar reactions to people that are different, be that physically, the accident of birth place or by religion or culture. Racism just seems to have been adopted as a catch all term.

Usually those who love to point out that there's a difference have an agenda for doing so.
 
Usually those who love to point out that there's a difference have an agenda for doing so.

They're also the ones who play the 'he called me racist' card because they're too bigoted to accept that bigot doesn't mean racist.
 
Plus some people think that you cannot be racist unless the perpetrator holds a position of power over the victim. It's the power aspect that moves the harm from prejudice to racism.
Then those people are simply wrong.

What "moves" prejudice to racism is when that prejudice is based on the person's race, when its based on someone's sex it makes it sexism etc etc
 
There seems to be an increasing desire nowadays for people to assign themselves to categories and then use this taxonomy to determine who they agree with and who they don't. The whole in-group, out-group thing - if you're in my gang, I agree with you, and if you're not, I don't.

The natural evolution of such groups is to fragment into ever-smaller groups as they distinguish themselves by their specific value systems, and in turn ignore or put down others who don't share their specific value system. What's funny is that taken to its natural conclusion, the end result of these fracturing of groups into sub-groups is...the individual. And, in the West at least, this was self-evident for a long time, which is why Western societies are founded on the principle of the individual being free to do as they please in society (as long as they do not break the law, obviously).

This is why I always try to take people as they come. I don't really care what your race or religious beliefs or sexual orientation or gender are - what I do care about is how you conduct yourself and what you say, and I try to make my judgements on that. There are great people and assholes in all walks of life - it doesn't do anyone any favours to dismiss individuals due to them belonging to specific categories. Just my take on it.
 
The vast majority are either doing everything they can to wreck the process or get reverse the decision or at the very least waiting for it all to go tits up, just so they can say “see, we told you, we were right along”

And you think that Farage and his ilk would have just said, "Oh well, that's the way it goes chaps, lets get cracking on making this European Union thing work, shall we" if the outcome and been 48/52 remain? I'll give you a clue, no he would not, because he said as much before the referendum when he thought he was going to lose.
 
I don’t suppose he would have done. I’m sure he would have continued campaigning for another referendum in the future.

The difference being, had Remain one, we’d still have the status quo, he wouldn’t be putting obstacles in the way of our negotiating position.
 
The difference being, had Remain one, we’d still have the status quo, he wouldn’t be putting obstacles in the way of our negotiating position.
So you don't consider actively campaigning against something as an obstacle? Remain campaigners aren't putting obstacles in the way of our negotiating position, we have no negotiating position, apart from "Please can we keep all of the benefits but none of the drawbacks of being in your club." Surprisingly, this is not working out very well.
 
Probably better suited to the existing Brexit thread in the Politics section.

Who’s asking for all the benefits? Just a trade deal beneficial to both sides.
 
There are great people and assholes in all walks of life - it doesn't do anyone any favours to dismiss individuals due to them belonging to specific categories. Just my take on it.

Looks like you've contradicted yourself there?
 
Looks like you've contradicted yourself there?

"Great" and "asshole" are subjective qualities which cross objective taxonomy. One person's great is another's asshole but whether somebody is black, gay, or Muslim isn't up for debate.

So Great and Asshole aren't the boxes Kav discussed. People don't put themselves in an asshole box do they?
 
"Great" and "asshole" are subjective qualities which cross objective taxonomy. One person's great is another's asshole but whether somebody is black, gay, or Muslim isn't up for debate.

So Great and Asshole aren't the boxes Kav discussed. People don't put themselves in an asshole box do they?

Kev's discussion started with technical classifications; but the last part, which I highlighted, introduced two categories which lie outside the technical terms of reference.

Hence my question.
 
So when the lady was talking/speaking out to Gordon Brown about immigration and jobs was she a bigot?as Gordon suggested

An ignorant loudmouth, definitely. Does that make her a bigot?
 
Of course we have a voice. We've just stuck two fingers up to Brussels.
Only 52% of voters stuck their fingers up at Brussels: the other 48% still haven't excepted the outcome. They variously say that the 52% are racist, old and too thick to understand and have stolen their future.
 

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