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Do we welcome the new 1080p DLPs?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Welwynnick, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Many of the DLP RPTV makers are introducing 1080p sets in the rest of the World, and the UK will surely tag along eventually. There have been many remarks in related threads about whether this is a good thing. Some people say there is no point having 1080p sets if there is no 1080p material - that is broadcast or recorded. These comments are often added as throw-away remarks in other threads to support another point, but it seems to be unresolved, and I wanted to thrash this out in it's own thread.

    The HD standards are 720p and 1080i, and HD displays have so far only met the needs for 720p. While there are a couple of 1080i CRT TVs, the real meat of the 1080 market will be met with digital / fixed pixel / flat panel displays.

    While CRTs can be either interlaced or progressive scanning, digitals are invariably progressive, so the only displays with native 1080 resolution will be 1080p. Meaning that there will be NO 1080i digital displays. So if you want to watch 1080i material at native resolution, you will have to have a 1080p display.

    You don't have to have a source of 1080p material to watch on 1080 displays. You can feed them 720p and that will be upscaled by the display. You can feed them 1080i, and the display will de-interlace it. And I understand that the Samsungs at least will do that by de-interlacing directly to 1080p, and not going through the intermediate 540p route that raises so many eye brows, and deflates expectations.

    Of course, 1080p broadcasts are probably too much to expect for a long time (if ever), but we will probably get 1080p directly from HDDVD or Blu-Ray before too long, and then everyone will be happy. But before that, we can still take good advantage of 1080p with what we will have.

    And there are more issues ........

    Nick
     
  2. malso

    malso
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    i've just read that we might get 1080p HD broadcast from the BBC in the year 2010........this might be when analogue is finally switched off for good!..........but who knows for sure.....all of this needs clarification

    but when i saw HD in comparison to a really good standard analogue signal, in currys this week, on the new LG plasma........they both looked the same.....the screen was split in two, with the standard on the left and HD on the right......one side was slightly darker than the other, other that this; they both looked the same; i kid you not :( :( :rolleyes:

    YES, the overall quality was fantastic from both..........but I saw no ``big deal`` :suicide:
     
  3. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    All current plasmas have resolutions limited to 1366 x 768 at the most. I’m only talking about 1080, which has about twice the number of pixels, and the improvement will be invisible on current plasmas. Having seen the difference on suitable systems, I think it is significant step up over 720/768, and very much worth having.

    I happen to think that DVD properly upscaled to 720 or 768 can often be close to 720p HD if there is not to much rapid motion. But 1080 is the big step up.

    Several people have mentioned what Currys are doing now, so I’ll have to take another look. Everything I have seen so far, apart from the usual PC-fed Sagem demonstration, has done nothing but convince me to hold on to my money.

    Nick
     
  4. evolution400

    evolution400
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    Well we haven't even got sky hi def yet which is going to be 720p I can't see us getting 1080p broadcasts until probably 2010 lol :)
    In 2010 I bet you will be able to get a 60" DLP for £1000 or less so I would say save your money.
    Even though it upscales the picture you feed it still nothing compares to real Hi Def anyone who has downloaded some sample TS or WMV clips will tell you that.
     
  5. Razor

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    Evo :hiya:

    If you think WMV is good wait untill you see the likes of Blue Ray and HD-DVD. The bitrate is much higher and therefore the picture is even better. Were all in for a treat next year, I personally can't wait. :clap:
     
  6. NicolasB

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    And 1080i, for which you will need a 1080p screen.
     
  7. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    .....and a 10,000:1 contrast level that will blow all current UK models right out the water!
    Paul
     
  8. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Hence the interest.

    I've been waiting for something that might rival a 9" CRT. Didn't think it would arrive so soon or so reasonably priced.
     
  9. Razor

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  10. malso

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    you what!.........ha ha :suicide:
     
  11. malso

    malso
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    yes that's true :smashin:

    but blowing our tvs out of the water wont be hard, because all the best stuff is in the U.S.A and Japan. :mad:

    just take a look at Samsung U.K, only 4 DLP's
     
  12. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Sorry, perhaps I ought to clarify - thought everyone knew what the yardstick was.
    I meant a 9" CRT projector.
    The indisputable top of the stack in video reproduction.
     
  13. LV426

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    It's not what I'd choose; even with unlimited resources and a dedicated room. No way. "Undisputed" is a bit strong. It may well be your (and others') opinion, but it isn't mine.
     
  14. evolution400

    evolution400
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    Too Right !
    They just need to decide on a standard now instead of all this war nonsense :)
     
  15. evolution400

    evolution400
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    I doubt many programmes will be in 1080i anyway maybe coronation street for the ful effect ?
    :rotfl:
     
  16. dunsters

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    This came in this morning on my PC-Pro email :- :thumbsdow

    News

    [CD/DVD drives]
    Tuesday 23rd August 2005

    Blu-ray and HD-DVD - no merger in prospect 1:21PM
    The backers of Blu-ray and HD-DVD have given up hope of reaching an agreement to merge the two technologies and create a single standard for next-generation, high-definition DVDs, according to a Japanese newspaper. Yomiuri says that both Sony, the main force behind Blu-ray, and Toshiba, HD-DVD's creator, have conceded that even if an agreement could be reached there is no longer sufficient time to develop a single format before the launch of compatible products.

    'Late August is the practical time limit,' said Yoshihide Fujii, Toshiba's corporate senior vice president.

    A Sony spokesman said that the failure of talks back in May had been the cut-off point.

    Nonetheless neither would rule out unification in the future, though it now appears that movie studios and disc buyers will have to choose one or the other once the first players, discs and - possibly crucially - the Blu-ray equipped PlayStation 3 are released over the course of the next six to nine months.


    Simon Aughton
    Cheers:hiya:
     
  17. NicolasB

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    There are quite a number of cinema films that have already been converted to 1080i for release on D-Theatre. Granted, there would have to be an MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion.

    1080i is far and away the most sensible format for cinema, while 720p is more suited to sports broadcasts. A cinema film broadcast as 720p is giving you 25 unique frames per second with each frame being 1280x720. The same film in 1080i is 25 unique frames per second with each frame being 1920x1080 - no contest, really, but also absolutely no point if you're watching on a 1280x720 screen.
     
  18. evolution400

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    I am not disputing the quality of 1080i and I am fully aware of the 720p and 1080i resolutions thank you. I am just stating that there has been no definate announcment from SKY stating how much material and what it will be broadcast in i.e 720p or 1080i I agree with you that 1080i should be for movies and TV eps like 24, lost etc
     
  19. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    That is remarkable restraint. Only on dissenter. Most people are all too quick to jump in with their opinion of what is the latest and greatest.
     
  20. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Sky has said that the hardware will support both 720p and 1080i and that it is up to the broadcaster to decide which they want to use. You are right that we haven't yet had any announcements about which will be used. (Fingers crossed for 1080i on Sky Movies HD).

    The reason I brought it up is that every time anyone mentions a 1080p screen someone jumps in and rubbishes the idea by saying that there aren't any 1080p broadcasts and won't be for years. I wish people would appreciate that (CRT aside) you need a 1080p screen to be able to watch 1080i properly. :)
     
  21. multiply

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    I agree. In the meantime, I can't wait to see the picture definition at 1080 from my Sony Betamax
    :cool:
     
  22. gpender

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    Sure "undisputable" is a bit strong.....but it wouldn't be your choice.....really... even with "unlimited resources and a dedicated room".... :confused:

    I like the way you've offered up that "opinion" without even suggesting what yours really is.......

    Damn right! It has become a little tedious the rubbishing of desires/wants/needs of 1080p....at times it's as if something totally alien has been mentioned! I see the fact that Sky's hardware will be capable of delivery of both formats as a reasonable indication that Sky Movies HD might be 1080i.....and even then we've still got d-theatre.......

    Sure if I had the dough I'd jump on a 720p screen now and wait and see....and if I had to change in 18/24 months to a 1080p screen who cares....but I don't have that level of disposable income and I wonder if those that rubbish the idea of the 1080p screen do either...

    I'm not knocking anyone that's buying anything now :) I just think it's not ridiculous to be waiting on the next gen either.....I knew there was a reason that big ugly glowing thing is still hanging from my ceiling...........
     
  23. LV426

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    Because I don't want to lead this thread (which is about HiRes DLP RP TVs) in another direction.
     
  24. Boris Blank

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    Nice little review/report from a professional calibrator about the new 1080p Samsungs http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/5/Number/731606/page/0/fpart/3/vc/1

    In a nutshell, they are superb!

    I'm hanging in by my fingernails at the moment, there are some really great deals on the 50" 720p Samsungs but the prospect of owning the 1080p model is holding me back (just barely) from snapping one up. Problem is, we have no idea when the new models will arrive. A French forum think it may be October, if so great but no idea if thats true or not.
    Paul
     
  25. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    I was just about to give up prattling on about the new 1080p sets - nobody seems to appreciate what a big deal they are - I think I'll keep it to myself. In the States they're big on user reviews, which are usually positive ( like the Top Gear JDPower survey reports on Hyundais ) so don't carry much weight with me.

    But there have been several respected, professional ISF calibrators who have come out and given them some very good assessments. So good, with a suitable external video processor they could be mentioned in the same breath as the £13k Sony Qualia 006. With better contrast.

    They're selling the 61" sets for little more than 3000 dollars, and they just might be the best TVs ever. But I can't even find a US distributor to quote to ship to the UK.

    There's a couple of technical problems yet, though.
    The HDMI inputs will only accept up to 1080i - the VGA input is needed for 1080p. That's not acceptable, and it's got to change. The frame rate is only 60 Hz, so motion will never look right.

    Yup, can hardly wait fior the European ones.

    Nick
     
  26. chedmaster

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    i'm pretty sure ALIS plasma displays (1024 pixels alternately lit) display 1080i absolutely natively, without de-interlacing it. they simply cut a tiny bit off the top and bottom. 'bout the only thing theyre good for IMO :) .
     
  27. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    ALIS panels only have 1024 pixels horizontally, against 1920 for proper 1080, so they would still have to scale down pretty heavily. There's been some debate about whether all the pixels in ALIS panels are independantly addressible. I'm not sure what the answer is, but native 1024x1024 seems to be questionable.
     
  28. NicolasB

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    Yeah - at best, an ALIS panel will be downscaling 1920 horizontal pixels to only 1024. That's not displaying it natively.
     
  29. chedmaster

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    forgot about horizontal :rolleyes:

    they can be addressed independently i read a massive chat by one of the techies at fuji on AVS forum ages ago
     
  30. Boris Blank

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    I missed these until now - the new Sony SXRD 006 Qualia RPTV sets in the US seem to be gaining some ground. At $3999 (£2300) for the 50" set, it has 1080p and a very good black level although picture is said to be better than the DLP's.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=498008&page=1

    I wonder if the war between DLP and SXRD will bring us cheaper sets in the UK?
    Paul
     

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