Do the HD formats ever have 4% Speed up?

T

Tommy Angelo

Guest
The main reason I only ever bought movies on US DVDs was because of the 4% speed up on PAL DVDs.

Are there any circumstances where UK HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray will not play at the original speed?
 

Duncan Harvey

Novice Member
Ironically we're all set for 4% slow down, as 25p/50i material may well be mastered at 24p to ensure compatibility.

If you were a manufacturer would you be confident that the public knew how to or had successfully updated their firmware so as to be able to display 25p?
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
All current disc are without speed up. I expect this to be the same for ALL films.
 
I only watch PAL, and I can't physically see the speed up. I have looked hard for it believe me.
 
T

Tommy Angelo

Guest
Is the speedup even noticeable except when you look at the total playtime of the movie ?
It's not something I have ever seen on screen but I have noticed it when there is a song I know in a movie. The only R2 DVD I own is I, Robot. As soon as Stevie Wonder starts playing I know its too fast and it bugs me.

I want to see and hear the movie as the director intended, not sped up.
 

Duncan Harvey

Novice Member
Its entirely subjective. Personally I do notice speed-up, thats why 95% of my collection is R1.

But this debate, along with 3:2 pulldown has been done to death.

Whilst ALL films should indeed be released in 24p, there is a growing amount of HD material finalised in 25p, eg the BBC's output. Given the inability of the public to be able to programme their VCR's, I severely doubt they'll be able to download and install new firmware, hence I expect 25p material to be slowed down and issued at 24p.

Sad really, and I hope I'm wrong.
 
It's not something I have ever seen on screen but I have noticed it when there is a song I know in a movie. The only R2 DVD I own is I, Robot. As soon as Stevie Wonder starts playing I know its too fast and it bugs me.

I want to see and hear the movie as the director intended, not sped up.
Can you be sure that your Stevie Wonder music is playing at the right speed? For many years we have played music at the wrong speed.
 
I assume you are joking :rolleyes: if not please explain?
Well record decks were never accurate, you set them by eye, but the timing would soon slip out again. Computers have juddery playback, they have an internal timer which is not accurate really.

I suppose that dedicated CD players should be quite accurate, not really sure, but what I'm saying is that nobody cared when we had record decks.
 
T

Tommy Angelo

Guest
The old record deck I have is very cheap and has a strobe to set the speed.

I would think anything digital would be pretty much spot on all the time.
 

Rich777

Novice Member
I have to retune my guitar to practice while watching a pal disc, very annoying/upsets my intonation !
 
Didn't realise that 4% speedup was so audibly noticable. I have a player that can do 4% speedup, I will have to listen to the difference between the two.

Edit: No, I can't audibly notice any difference even with 14% change in speed.

Try downloading Soritong and listen for yourself.
 
T

Tommy Angelo

Guest
Didn't realise that 4% speedup was so audibly noticable. I have a player that can do 4% speedup, I will have to listen to the difference between the two.

Edit: No, I can't audibly notice any difference even with 14% change in speed.

Try downloading Soritong and listen for yourself.
Okay, I just did a blind test. I got someone to set Sonique to either play a song I know either at 100% or 104% speed. I left the room while it was set and came in to listen. I did this with five songs and could always tell when the song was playing too fast.
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
Can't say i've ever noticed speedup myself.

Wish I could say the same abuot the though:rotfl:
 

ianh64

Novice Member
Okay, I just did a blind test. I got someone to set Sonique to either play a song I know either at 100% or 104% speed. I left the room while it was set and came in to listen. I did this with five songs and could always tell when the song was playing too fast.
Did you cover your watch up?

Seriously, can someone explain how pitch correction is performed on sped up material? So what we hear is at the correct pitch but just 4% faster.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Many times nowdays it is electronically compensated I believe for films though I can't confirm this.
 
T

Tommy Angelo

Guest
I think its like an image artifact, if you never look for it you often wont notice it.

I admit that I never had a clue about 4% speed up untill I read about it, but after that I could sometimes hear it in movies.
 

sanderton

Novice Member
All current disc are without speed up. I expect this to be the same for ALL films.

If the disk contains a 1080i/50 version of the film, as UK disks surely will, then it will have the speed up.

With modern audio pitch conversion technology it's no longer an issue really.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
1080i/50 based material will be native video source and there will not be an issue. 24p is being done as 24p (film) and this means we will not have speed up. I know of NO plans to put 24p material on the discs at 25p with speed up so at last speed up is a thing of the past for UK buyers.
 

MikeK

Novice Member
Yes, it's goodbye speedup :smashin: and hello motion judder :thumbsdow -

It's a matter of opinion which is more distracting!

Of course, if you buy a display which does IVTC properly and can display synced 1080p video at 48 or 72Hz (ie remove the 2:3 pulldown pattern from the video and display it with either 2:2 or 3:3 pulldown) then neither is an issue any more - not so many about though, but I believe some recent Pioneer plasma sets can do this (72Hz)!
 

sanderton

Novice Member
1080i/50 based material will be native video source and there will not be an issue. 24p is being done as 24p (film) and this means we will not have speed up. I know of NO plans to put 24p material on the discs at 25p with speed up so at last speed up is a thing of the past for UK buyers.

Well the player has to ultimately output 1080i/50 whether the disk has 1080p/24 on it or not, so the conversion has to be done somehow. If it's not done with a 4% speed up (which couldn't be done in player) how is it done? If it's by doubling then duplicating two frames to take 1080/24 to 1080/48 to 1080/50 that will have horrendous motion judder. Give me 4% speed up every time!

Or are you saying players will only output 1080i/60 with its 3:2 judder?
 
Well the player has to ultimately output 1080i/50 whether the disk has 1080p/24 on it or not, so the conversion has to be done somehow. If it's not done with a 4% speed up (which couldn't be done in player) how is it done? If it's by doubling then duplicating two frames to take 1080/24 to 1080/48 to 1080/50 that will have horrendous motion judder. Give me 4% speed up every time!
Yeah that's how it's done. Hi-def Juddervision is the new standard for DVD's.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Well the player has to ultimately output 1080i/50 whether the disk has 1080p/24 on it or not
No it doesn't. The players outputs at 60 Hz using 3:2. It introduces judder. Conversion of 24 to 50 is MUCH MUCH worse on judder. Some do not like 3:2 judder , others don't see it at all however if you don't like judder then there are devices (VPs) and techniques even built into displays like plasmas that can now take signal like [email protected] and generate a judder free variant like [email protected] which many new devices now accpet / display without judder. There is no solution for speed up however.
 

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