Do sanctions work ?

philmate

Suspended
The sanctions and secondary sanctions applied to Russia appear to have made the ruble the strongest since May 2015 and appear to help increase the cost of living in countries imposing them .
 

Surfer01

Active Member
The sanctions and secondary sanctions applied to Russia appear to have made the ruble the strongest since May 2015 and appear to help increase the cost of living in countries imposing them .
Correct and sanctions is the best thing that can happen to many countries as they become self sufficient creating employment.
I am speaking from experience as Britian impose sanctions on our country Rhodesia, now called Zimbabwe. There were plenty of employment opportunities for everyone as manufacturing flourished. The Rhodesian currency became stronger than the British pound.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
Correct and sanctions is the best thing that can happen to many countries as they become self sufficient creating employment.
I am speaking from experience as Britian impose sanctions on our country Rhodesia, now called Zimbabwe. There were plenty of employment opportunities for everyone as manufacturing flourished. The Rhodesian currency became stronger than the British pound.
Russia has massively improved food production since 2014 and is self sufficient in energy. They could basically recreate the Soviet Union and just trade with China and the developing world.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Russia has massively improved food production since 2014 and is self sufficient in energy. They could basically recreate the Soviet Union and just trade with China and the developing world.
No point in having high Rouble if you can't buy or sell anything. Russia is of course still going to have fuel and potatoes but not the parts to keep its industries going or build its military back up without critical parts in can't make itself.

Who knows what China will do if it could damage its own trade.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
No point in having high Rouble if you can't buy or sell anything. Russia is of course still going to have fuel and potatoes but not the parts to keep its industries going or build its military back up without critical parts in can't make itself.

Who knows what China will do if it could damage its own trade.
Those sanctions are hurting the west far more than Russia. Our farmers have no fertiliser, this winter people will freeze and inflation is skyrocketing. I am not old enough to remember the three day week but with the shortage of gas something has to give. Enjoy the heatwave while it lasts;)
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Those sanctions are hurting the west far more than Russia. Our farmers have no fertiliser, this winter people will freeze and inflation is skyrocketing. I am not old enough to remember the three day week but with the shortage of gas something has to give. Enjoy the heatwave while it lasts;)
Better that than Ukraine fall and an emboldened Russia become the constant new theat to Europe. Mafia with Nukes.

I was brought up in a house with no Central Heating and had to fill an iron tub for a bath. Sure I can cope heating one room if necessary for a year or two.

Plenty of food if not the range.

Our grandparents had to give up way more to ensure freedom in Europe.
 

dhia83

Well-known Member
Not least the defence sector which can't make much without outside inputs, and the oil sector that lacks money, technology and expertise to exploit replacement resources.

There's also all those Russians looking at empty shops, or unemployed, or being forced back on primitive alternatives.

And the energy prices situation is worse than it needs be - because of the peculiar way energy prices are set by the countries with most supply issues, There's also the falling out of Biden with the Saudis and UAE which has reduced the flow of alternative resources, - which Biden has just belatedly tried to backtrack on . And also the folly of Germany's decisions to persist with its silly anti-nuclear power programme even as the lights are threatened with going out, and the general stupidity of relying on Russian energy anyway.

Its also a very dubious assumption that Putin wouldn't have just put the oil price up anyway. Why wouldn't he , given he can make more money, and apply pressure on the west, at the same time. And many of the other shortages are the direct result of his war , not the response to try and stop it. Many others have more to do with Chinese supply issues.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
In the end, none of this matters. Russia has already won the war. Ukraine cannot replace its losses in men and materiel. Even with western aid their military will collapse. So in short the sanctions will not stop a Russian victory. They are merely an irritant.
 

philmate

Suspended
But what are the repercussions in the coming years , how long will it continue and the outage has and may touch millions of people in time , you maybe , myself included .
Why/how can Germany send ammunitions to Ukraine and still get gas . There is a large hiccup concerning this that involves Canada that could end up in tears at the moment .
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
But what are the repercussions in the coming years , how long will it continue and the outage has and may touch millions of people in time , you maybe , myself included .
Why/how can Germany send ammunitions to Ukraine and still get gas . There is a large hiccup concerning this that involves Canada that could end up in tears at the moment .
The repercussions in the coming years will be dire. Putin has just visited Iran. I dread to think what help has has offered them in return for drones. And the Middle East will be the next flashpoint. Germany can still get gas but it will be at a much reduced volume. Russia will supply as little as possible to hurt Germany. They are already talking about rationing gas. In the short to medium term this will cripple industry much like the oil crisis back in the 1970s.
 
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Vollrath

Distinguished Member
The repercussions in the coming years will be dire. Putin has just visited Iran. I dread to think what help has has offered them in return for drones. And the Middle East will be the next flashpoint. Germany can still get gas but it will be at a much reduced volume. Russia will supply as little as possible to hurt Germany. They are already talking about rationing gas. In the short to medium term this will cripple industry much like the oil crisis back in the 1970s.

If Putin had succeeded in Ukraine, the present repercussions in terms of western comfort would have been as nothing, compared with the repercussions if Russian forces were now sitting on the Polish border.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
Give it time, Belarus is going to become part of Russia;)
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
The repercussions in the coming years will be dire. Putin has just visited Iran. I dread to think what help has has offered them in return for drones. And the Middle East will be the next flashpoint. Germany can still get gas but it will be at a much reduced volume. Russia will supply as little as possible to hurt Germany. They are already talking about rationing gas. In the short to medium term this will cripple industry much like the oil crisis back in the 1970s.
Russia cutting back gas supply to Gernmany results in Russia cutting back its own income. Classic cut off nose to spite the face situation.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
Russia cutting back gas supply to Gernmany results in Russia cutting back its own income. Classic cut off nose to spite the face situation.
It may cut its income but Russia has a massive trade surplus. The fact that that oil and gas prices have gone up mean they have a lot more money than before. Something not factored in by the idiots leading the free world. Basically they hold all the cards and have us by the throat. I am honestly dreading this coming winter!
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
It may cut its income but Russia has a massive trade surplus. The fact that that oil and gas prices have gone up mean they have a lot more money than before. Something not factored in by the idiots leading the free world. Basically they hold all the cards and have us by the throat. I am honestly dreading this coming winter!
They may hold all the cards but unfortunately for them the house has most of their cash and isn't letting them use it or withdraw it. Hard to bet in the casino when the credit has been withdrawn and you can't get any chips....

For someone who holds all the cards they are making lots of nuclear first use threats with yet another blow up England with a single Sarmat missile (but this time leave Scotland and Wales untouched). 'Russia should nuke England but not harm Scotland
Handy for the UK as Scotland, of course, is where the UK ultimate retalitory force is based.
 
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lillmap

Active Member
If sanctions worked Iran would have collapsed by now. The real test will come this winter when sanctions will be limiting Russian gas supplies to Europe. Sanctions cut both ways it has raised world oil prices and thus pushed the West into inflation. It has limited grain supplies affecting food supplies to Middle-East and worse yet the poorest African countries. In the meantime, China and India are buying Russian oil at 35% discount like drunken sailors.
 

Overthefence

Standard Member
What an interesting though somewhat disheartening thread. As another member who grew up with an outside toilet, a tin bath, no central heating and lots of recycled/upcycled possessions long before those terms became fashionable, it could be that younger members will need to share some of those experiences sometime soon.
 

Vollrath

Distinguished Member
What an interesting though somewhat disheartening thread. As another member who grew up with an outside toilet, a tin bath, no central heating and lots of recycled/upcycled possessions long before those terms became fashionable, it could be that younger members will need to share some of those experiences sometime soon.

Many green-minded Russian contributors to social media appear to be sharing those experiences already, especially in the case of white goods and cosmetics.
 
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Deleted member 384351

Guest
What an interesting though somewhat disheartening thread. As another member who grew up with an outside toilet, a tin bath, no central heating and lots of recycled/upcycled possessions long before those terms became fashionable, it could be that younger members will need to share some of those experiences sometime soon.
Indeed, all thanks the western governments trying to spread so called democracy. It’s worked so well in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan right? I have no doubt these idiots were bdd Ed hind the recent chaos in Kazakhstan too. The west never learns!
 

Vollrath

Distinguished Member
Indeed, all thanks the western governments trying to spread so called democracy. It’s worked so well in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan right? I have no doubt these idiots were bdd Ed hind the recent chaos in Kazakhstan too. The west never learns!

I think you'll find the war in Ukraine came about through the Russian government trying to spread fascistic autocracy, with no "so-called" about it.
 

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