Answered Do OLED tv's suffer screen image retention (burn?)

Martin68

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I have been reading many times that OLED does not suffer screen burn like the problem we had with plasma, but i beg to differ as i saw it with my own eyes.
I went to our local Currys shop yesterday and saw a 55" LG OLED set showing a demo video, and on the bottom left you could clearly ready the LG logo which must have been displayed there before they changed the demo video. There was also clear text visible on the top left which must have also been displayed quite a bit before the video was changed.
I have also seen screen burn on Samsung AMOLED phone screen while in demo mode in the shops.
So why is there so much talk saying that oled does not suffer from screen burn?
 
Mine has absolutely no ir. Not even after hours using the oled as a computer monitor. I guess you can have bad luck and receive a panel that are bad and that has slipped through the quality control.
 
Is it possible that the TV has been set to shop floor mode (ultra-hot), and had the same demo with the same still logo on for 9 hours a day for several weeks or longer?

The question perhaps is not whether OLEDs can get screen burn, but whether they're likely to do so in normal viewing.

I'm sure the screen will crack if I throw rocks at it, but I wouldn't start a thread titled "OLED tv's DO suffer cracked screens!" Okay, I'm stretching a point, but it's important to make the distinction, I think.

Nonetheless, point taken. If I ever buy an OLED I'll be sure to treat it carefully.

Steve W
 
Is it possible that the TV has been set to shop floor mode (ultra-hot), and had the same demo with the same still logo on for 9 hours a day for several weeks or longer?

The question perhaps is not whether OLEDs can get screen burn, but whether they're likely to do so in normal viewing.

I'm sure the screen will crack if I throw rocks at it, but I wouldn't start a thread titled "OLED tv's DO suffer cracked screens!" Okay, I'm stretching a point, but it's important to make the distinction, I think.

Nonetheless, point taken. If I ever buy an OLED I'll be sure to treat it carefully.

Steve W
I had read that OLED TVs should be treated as a Plasma screen for the first 2-300 hours to avoid Image Retention.

Which is how I am running in my 980W.
 
It is possible for OLED to suffer image retention, but it is understood this is not due to the OLED organic matter itself but instead due to voltage drift in the TV's circuitry which can result in a temporary 'staining' of the screen.

LG's initial OLED TVs appeared to have less effective algorithms to reset the voltage drift periodically, but these have apparently been refined in more recent batches and the 9300 model to the point that I haven't heard of any issues for MONTHS, despite people subjecting their panels to lots of torture testing on things like video games.

For more, read this...

Why your next TV should be OLED | Expert Reviews

To prevent the threshold voltage from deteriorating over time and causing an imbalance in luminance, LG has also developed special circuit algorithms to sense any potential changes in the threshold voltage of each pixel. This will adjust luminance levels on a real-time basis, helping the panel last longer and prevent staining.

Desk
 
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ok I have edited the title of this thread, but only because you are defending this technology which in my opinion still not perfected.
I know what I saw, and no matter how anyone dresses it up, the LG logo as well as other stuff was clearly visible and looked just the same as with a plasma tv.
Having said that, The model in question is a first generation set, and like with plasma screens, it was the first generation that suffered this, and I have yet to see one of the newer plasmas with screen burn, so i'm sure later oled sets won't suffer this issue.
I personally don't understand why broadcasters have to use channel logos in this digital world, after all, it only takes a press of the "i" or epg button to see what channel your watching, and it's these stupid logos that damage our sets with this image retention.
 
No issue here on my OLED (55EC930V), it has ABL circuitry which seems to be doing its job so far....
I watch sky and terrestrial tv with logos....... no issues so far.

It's far superior to my previous plasma and edge lit/FALD LED TVs.
 
You can get Screen Burn and Image Retention on vanilla LED panels but as has been mentioned a fair chance the OLED is in torghlight display mode and that coupled with the constant demo running makes it far more susceptible.
 
I'm going to post this one more time, simply....

Each pixel in an OLED TV is activated by an individual drive transistor.

The transistor is activated by a voltage.

Through differing amounts of use, these transistors can begin to diverge or 'drift' from the base voltage threshold (voltage drift), resulting in differing responses to the same voltage when applied to every pixel transistor across the screen.

This differing response to the voltage appears as image retention, which LG themselves refer to as 'staining'.

However, to combat this, improved algorithms every so often make subtle changes to the voltage. This effectively resets the voltage threshold so that all the transistors respond uniformly once again, eliminating whatever 'staining' has become apparent.

It appears LG's algorithm software activated itself in the early first gen sets when they were switched off or back on, explaining why the supposed 'burn in' disappeared, or at least diminished, when people turned their sets off overnight and then back to reexamine them the next day (some mistakenly thought this was due to it 'cooling down').

These algorithms now appear so improved in the late first gen and now second gen sets so that staining never even begins to appear in the first place.

Here is a link to the US patent for the voltage drift compensation method for OLED TVs, which LG now seems to have refined to the point where it is no longer even an issue...

Patent US20060208971 - Active matrix oled display device with threshold voltage drift compensation - Google Patents

So once again, it's not anything like what was seen in plasma. This was an issue with good old-fashioned transistors, now sorted.

Desk
 
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The temporary IR is not the same as we have seen in OLED displays that exhibited actual burn-in as in-store demos (both from LG and Samsung), which is probably not too dissimilar from plasma burn-in. Thankfully, there has yet to be any reported cases from owners of burn-in from everyday use. The 9800 I have will get IR from static scoreboards (which just so happen to be most commonly positioned in the letterbox portion of the screen where my February 2014 panel also gets the aforementioned letterbox IR). I simply use a pixel jogging strobe effect to clear it up (after a day of football, this method clears it up in 2-4 hours).
 
Good post Desk - thanks for the info.

Do you know if a firmware update from LG has improved the circuit algorithm to correct the staining (image retention) on first generation TV sets?

Why I ask is I suppose shops could still be selling first generation OLED sets from their stock, but I'm guessing that is the case.

I'm currently reviewing OLED TVs to replace my trusty old Samsung LE40A656. My favourite so far is the LG 55EA980W even though it has a curved screen. :)
 
I'm not Desk but am an actual owner of an early generation set (55EA9800 in the US) with the latest firmware update. I see no difference with how the letterbox IR (or staining as it was described above) manifests after watching a letterbox movie. Sometimes a power cycle will help but not necessarily (and instead using it normally will remedy it over time or, if I get antsy, a 2-hour session of full-screen pixel jogging/flipping), as there may be some set interval at which the compensation occurs, something a power cycle by itself won't initiate. This variability in behavior across an identical model suggests to me some variation on the hardware level that has little to nothing to do with firmware. I would recommend looking for the 2014 model so you don't have to second-guess about it, though it's a minor annoyance after having lived with it for 7 months.
 
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Do you know if a firmware update from LG has improved the circuit algorithm to correct the staining (image retention) on first generation TV sets?

Why I ask is I suppose shops could still be selling first generation OLED sets from their stock, but I'm guessing that is the case.
It was the very first batches of LG OLEDs manufactured where IR seemed to be a particular issue. So as one of the earliest adopters I'd say Vinnie's in a good position to advise on whether he's implemented firmware updates and say what difference they've made to IR.

He's just mentioned his use of pixel jogger, but I seem to recall him also saying he had noted that IR had, generally, become less of an issue with his set.

Were you to buy a 55EA980 now, it's likely you'd get a much more recently manufactured set (and you can actually find the month of manufacture printed on the back of the set).

However, at this stage I'd personally go for one of the new 2014 model, 55EC9300, which has been a focus for LG. Owners of those sets report using them as they would an LED, playing video games for hours without concern about IR.

Desk
 
It has actually had variability. There have been times when I sensed an improvement but that would follow with a worse case of it (taking longer to resolve). Over time, it has become less nagging because at almost 1500 hours, nothing has stuck permanently.
 
Thanks for that guys.

However, the recently released LG 55EC930V sells for £2,999 at most retailers (RicherSounds, Currys etc.) so is well out of my price range.

It's £1,000 more than the LG 55EA980W. :eek:
 
It won't be the end of the world if you get a pre-March 2014 build (that seems to be around the time when improvements were employed).
 
However, the recently released LG 55EC930V sells for £2,999 at most retailers (RicherSounds, Currys etc.) so is well out of my price range.

It's £1,000 more than the LG 55EA980W. :eek:

I believe it's £2219.98 at Costco, and that this is inclusive of VAT.

Also, expect the prices of the more internet-focused retailers to be quickly far below that £3k mark. Some of these guys also have shops, so you should also be able to apply for a price match with the likes of John Lewis.

EDIT: As Vinnie says, though, a post-March manufactured 980W would still likely be a very good buy, with little difference between that and the new 9300. Personally, I like the stand of the new model more.

Desk
 
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1.9k in Norway :smashin:
 
OK, thanks again guys. Likely to be purchasing the LG 55EA980W soon. :cool:
 
So if you do have an EA980W with image retention (Like say the LG logo from a store ex-display model) is there a way to try and get rid of it?
 
Shame LG don't include a scrolling bar feature on em. But just to download one one a usb stick and use it on them.
 
Thanks for that guys.

However, the recently released LG 55EC930V sells for £2,999 at most retailers (RicherSounds, Currys etc.) so is well out of my price range.

It's £1,000 more than the LG 55EA980W. :eek:

Only took a month for it to drop £1000, now £1999 at Currys / JL :)
 
I had a look at the lg 65EC970 in Fenwicks today and unfortunately the screen was definitely burnt and it was not from screen abuse either i.e. an image that had been left on screen like a menu for hours static. It was set on LGs rolling demo of HD content that once every 5mins showed the LG logo of for around 5 seconds and it was not on blasting brightness. What I saw was the purple part of the lg logo had CLEARLY burnt into the screen. At first I thought I was seeing thinks because it was not easy to see at first because the demo mode rolls through a lot of night scenes and you don't see it then. So I asked if I could see some 1080P content on the screen and the sales staff were nice enough to put in a usb stick with 1080P and sure enough the purple triangle of the purple LG logo was Very clearly visible espeacially light blue scenes sceens. I pointed this out to the guy and he said that yes that it happens with all the oleds and that last year everyone of them in the shop had burnt images. I've got to say I was impressed with the guy for being honest about it though it would be hard for him not to be when it was staring us in the face. It was a real crying shame to see as well because its a beautiful set with beautiful picture quality and I really wanted it not to be the case. So to answer the question do oled suffer from burnt images the answer is YES it does. Many say that lcd/led can suffer from screen burn in as well but I have a samsung ue55b7000 led tv from 2009 that's spent a lot of time on tv channels with static images and pc strategy games that have sationary menu images for many hours at a time and it does not have a bit of burn. Everyone has to make their own decision on taking a risk on new technology but I want a tv to last at least 5-6 years I know that display set has been in the shop no more than 3 months on a rolling demo with that logo showing once every 5 minutes. It looks like no one is getting my money this year on the top models between lg oled burn in. Sonys massive speakers and samsungs industrial stainless steel metal frames that match a kitchen not a living room. Roll on 2016 CES and fingers crossed that Sony or Samsung come up with something in the led space with their top range modeld that dont shoot themselves in the foot. As for OLED I don't think they will solve that burnt image thing anytime soon I believe it's the nature of the materials. For the moment having seen that OLED horse is out of the race for me.
 
I have also noticed this burn in retention on Amoled phone screens, such as the demo models you see switched on in the phone shops.
 

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