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do ninty rely on mario to much

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by SILVERBACK, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. SILVERBACK

    SILVERBACK
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    what do you reckon? after reading the "MS is trying to buy nintendo" thread it seems there is a lot of mario golf mario tennis mario kart mario sunshine etc etc and do you think without the mario title they would shift as many of the games eg speed karts instead of mario kart etc.i know its all about the gameplay but what do you reckon.
     
  2. RL123

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    I play Nintendo games because they're good and I enjoy them. Having Mario in them/setting them in the Mario universe etc just gives them a sense of familiarity to me and doesn't improve/worsen the games in any way.

    Mario vs Donkey Kong is a perfect example of this. The game itself is fantastic but controlling Mario, listening to all those classic tunes and fighting Donkey Kong at the end of every stage just elevates it a bit further

    They could release Mario games forever and I probably wouldn't get bored of it. It's better to have a group of (consistent!) characters in loads of games than 5-10 new characters in every new game who I don't feel any kind of connection with
     
  3. John C

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    To me, the only thing I'm thinking when I'm playing Super Smash Bros., or Mario Kart, is "Am I having fun?"

    Reallly, who the character in the game happens to be is something of a secondary consideration (unless it's DK, of course, DK RULES. :D )
     
  4. Solar

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    you realy are a nintendo hater are'nt you silverback :D

    its exactly the same as GTA on sony and halo on xbox
    you are talking about them, so your promoting them, nuff said !
     
  5. Tetlee

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    I agree there, it's the playability of the games more than the characters that matter, it just happens that most if not all games to feature Mario and co. are damn fine games. I can't think of any Mario stinkers unlike other games that take characters and try to put them in different styles of games (I mean Crash Nitro Cart is absolute **** IMO).
    I think the whole Mario thing for me is almost like an assurance of a quality title, I imagine alot of others think the same way. They're just pure fun!
    I wouldn't argue that Mario Golf is alot like Everybodys Golf, but then I loved that game too :)
    Do Ninty rely too much on Mario character? well if it aint broke.....

    Oh, and thank god for Resi Evil......I'm loving zero at the mo.
     
  6. Miyazaki

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    Mario Sunshine was quite poor, but Mario Kart is great!
     
  7. SILVERBACK

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    not really a hater more of a ex fan who cant really understand how much they have slipped yet people still wont handle criticsm lol.i think i have a valid point though and its not quite like GTA or HALO is it ? you dont get tommy vecceti golf,halo paint,tommy cart halo beat em up tommy tennis etc etc imho without the "mario" in mario kart it would still sell but not as much.im not taking anything away from the mario genre just a bit dissapointed ninty arent trying to make a pgr2 or GT rival for the cube.
     
  8. SILVERBACK

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    its bloody identical apart from the characters lol.


    fair enough but i thought nintendo where the inevators while box and ps2 where just franchise monsters who bang out title after title with no real thought.

    its been that long since i have played a resi game its untrue :( lastt ime i played was the dreamcast one veronica was it? but i would seriously think about getting a very cheap cube to play it on if its as good as the older ones :) i think the suffering on the box is as close as i have come to something that can touch resi for chills and scares.
     
  9. Tetlee

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    I played and completed all of the resi evil games except for codename veronica (the idea of an updated resi evil 1 didn't really apeal to me) and I have to say I tried that on Gamecube and didn't like the controls.
    But resident evil zero is IMO by far the best of the series, by a long way too. The graphics are amazing, at last you can drop items wherever you want instead of having to keep running back and forth of the storage boxes. But best of all is the way you can switch between the 2 characters at almost anytime during the game (there are times when you need to save the other character so then of course you can't switch). Also alot of the times you can keep both characters together (chosing whether the uncontrolled character should be idle or in attack mode) which comes in real handy when you want all guns blazing.
    I must admit, if I didn't own a gamecube, I would definatley say it would be worth buying a cheapie just to play this game, especially if you're a fan of the series.
    I only wish the game was available on xbox, would be great to play it with 5.1 surround :zonked:
     
  10. SILVERBACK

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    i was on another forum when i seen they had cubes a littlewoods for 40 quid i flew over to the site but they had all gone :( i would also love to hear resi in all its 5.1 glory though as the suffering really does creep you out with the awesome 5.1 sound effects.
     
  11. Tetlee

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    I've been trying to find Silent Hill 3 for the xbox, I've looked everywhere but I haven't ever seen a copy. Strange as I've read reviews for the game and were all good, so why does no-one stock it? I could buy it for PS2 but I want the xbox version, again for the same reason, 5.1 surround, and aparently it was used to fantastic effect on that game :devil:

    BTW, if you do manage to find a cheap cube (game sometimes have them SH for £40), try looking in WHSmith for resi evil zero, I bought my copy from there a couple months ago for only £10 :eek: one of the best bargains I ever bought!
     
  12. snake II

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    I a a big nintendo fan, but I got to admit nintendo do use the mario name too much for their latest games, anyway who am I to complain I love the mario games except the mario kart and sunshine which were major disapointments, I mean for mario kart where was the jump slid , or the feather, they could have made that game massive in terms of multyplayer but they didnt, only a couple of trackes throughtout the multiplayer feature.

    Mario sunshine was to be the revolution like nothing seen before, I never liked the 3d transition for mario it didnt suit him, mario 64 was a total "crap" game, too easy nothing like the snes super mario world,

    But hey thats nintendo they try new things out and as long as they still produce the games I am there . Cant wait for mario 128 lets see if its like sunshine, I'll bet its called super mario "mushroom kingdom/ princess toadstoll/peach heaven" what will they think of next
    I will be waiting for your replies about mario 64 :oops:
     
  13. SILVERBACK

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    i gotta say i liked mario 64 not as much as i loved super mario world but it was up there.like you have stated the latest one was terrible imho compared to the legacy of mario games before it.it was still head and shoulders above other platformers but just didnt have the inovation or the sparkle of the last few games.
     
  14. Solar

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    hmm its not that they have lost the sparkle, its the fact that people tell their mates who tell their mates who tell their mates not to buy nintendo because they all have a xbox.(kinda reminds me of atari and commodore days)

    just remember we are still wondering about them, talking about them, at the same time promoting them and would probably still go out and get a ninty console to play them
     
  15. SILVERBACK

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    :lease:

    lol we might be talking about them and some are wondering about them but its not in as good a light as it use to be.and i dont for one second believe its based on the "mates telling mates" theory either i just think the other have caught up and have taken a different path and a lot of people are choosing the different path imho.and like i have stated i would get a cube JUST for resi and have previously owned a cube but traded it in for a xbox

    and to get back on topic do you agree solar that mario is being hammered by ninty?
     
  16. Solar

    Solar
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    Sonic The Hedgehog
    Sonic The Hedgehog (8 Bit)
    Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (8 Bit)
    Sonic The Hedgehog 2
    SegaSonic Arcade
    Sonic The Hedgehog
    Sonic & Tails / Sonic Chaos
    Sonic HC Dude
    Doctor Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
    Sonic The Hedgehog 3
    Sonic Drift
    Sonic Gameworld
    Tails And The Music Maker
    Sonic & Knuckles
    Sonic & Tails 2 / Sonic The Hedgehog: Triple Trouble
    Chaotix / Knuckles' Chaotix
    Sonic Drift 2
    Tails' Skypatrol
    Tails' Adventure
    Sonic: Two In One
    Sonic Labyrinth
    Sonic The Fighters / Sonic Championship
    Sonic 3D Flickies' Island / 3D Blast
    G-Sonic / Sonic Blast
    Sonic Schoolhouse
    Sonic Classics / Sonic Compliation
    The Sonic And Knuckles Collection
    Sonic Jam
    Sonic R
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    Sonic R (Handheld)
    Sonic Adventure
    Sonic Adventure (Limited Edition)
    Sonic Adventure International
    Sonic Shuffle
    Sonic Adventure 2
    Sonic Advance
    Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
    Sonic Advance 2
    Sonic Heroes
    Sonic Cameos
    Popful Mail (Sister Sonic)
    Sonic Crackers
    Sonic X-Treme
    Upcoming sonic games
    Waku Waku Sonic Police Car
    Amazing Sonic The Hedgehog
    Sonic The Hedgehog: Pocket Adventure


    nope i dont think they are hammering mario at all !
    its been done so many times with lots of other games but mario is the only one that has managed to stick around and make a big impression
     
  17. SILVERBACK

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    are they all on SEGA consoles or are they spread amongst different branded (ps2 gba gb cube etc)consoles? my point was there using mario in different genre games not the amount of titles but thanks for the list.thats a lot of sonic lol.
     
  18. Solar

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    hehe that is a lot of sonic isnt it
    i know what your saying about mario, yes there is a lot but why does it bother you so much ?
    ITS MARIO !!!! ;)
     
  19. SILVERBACK

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    i wouldnt say it bothers me it just makes me laugh when i here about the big bad wolves that are MS and SONY kicking the arse out of the gaming industry with there lack of imagination and hammering title after title out,while little cuddly nintendo kick the arse out of mario and nothing is said lol.like i have stated i liked the mario games but just lately they stink imho and the spin off series that is golf kart etc are just poor games with the mario character there to bump the sales up.the old mario kart was a scream with a few mates round but the new releases just dont have it.

    like i said mario golf is just everybodys golf with different characters,mario kart is a weak re hash with not much thought gone into it,mario sunshine enough said.are they even making a new mario game for the cube or is nothing been said ?
     
  20. CAS FAN

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    Of course Ninty rely on their main "brands" like Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc and they are in no way alone.

    Sony have their main "brands" such as Tekken, Gran Turismo, Wipeout, PES, Virtua Fighter and M$ have their main "brands" like Halo & PGR.

    Ninty are the last of a dying breed of Console manufacturers/games developers. As such they have a long herritage of classic characters and gaming brands and to be fair that is their main strength. Although I loved SEGA consoles slightly more than Ninty ones I must say that SEGA didn't really have as strong a character line up as Ninty and maybe this fact contributed (although far from the main reason)to Sega's eventual downfall. Apart from Wonderboy SEGA didn't really have a decent platform character to compete with the likes of Mario, DK & Metroid so they manufactured Sonic! I remember the day well, when Sonic was first released and as such i've never liked Sonic as much as I simply envisaged SEGA sat in some design office desparately trying to come up with a Mario Beater! For me Mario seemed less contrived that Sonic.

    The consoles today like the PS2 & XB have some first party titles but mainly their killer apps are from 3rd party houses like Sega & Konami. In this age the fight is to get as many Killer apps on board as possible and Sony's ability to do this (given their market dominance) has kept them in a strong position. Whilst Ninty have some really strong 1st part titles, they simply don't have enough 3rd party support and this has been the problem (mostly of their own doing) since the days of the N64. M$ is a new console and therefore has less killer titles on board. They do seem to be getting more and more though such as PES and Outrun2.

    So I don't think Ninty rely on Mario and it's other strong characters too much, it's just that they lack the 3rd party support that would give their games range more depth.
     
  21. Solar

    Solar
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    ....and seem to make them more noticable

    no one could have said that better gthom3 :)
     
  22. SILVERBACK

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    very well put GTHOM3.why have nintendo burnt there bridges though mate with third party game developers?
     
  23. Tetlee

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    Personaly I think MarioKart DD is a great update to a fantastic game, yes I loved the original MarioKart, and yes I do slightly miss the whole jump and feather aspect of the game, but still I think DD has some great new ideas (well, idea really, but I wouldn't want the game changed too much anyway). The 2 players in one kart (which alot of people moan about as a gimic) is a great way of someone joining a game that can't usually play. I just finished completing DD with my girlfriend doing the weapons and punching duties, was a great laugh and alot easier for being able to punch and steal enemys weapons. Was damn near impossible completing the All Star Cup in mirror though, the wavebirds were flying across the room after several attempts :laugh:
     
  24. CAS FAN

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    To answer that we need to look back over Nintendo's history a little. This isn't meant to patronise at all and it's relevant as to why Nintendo now rely on their main characters, and lack the 3rd party support that I feel they need to survive as a console developer!

    Nintendo & Third party developers stems back to what made them a force in the console market in the first place. The Atari 2600 & 7800 were successful consoles but loads of sub standard 3rd party games eventually led to their downfall.

    Ninty then came along with it's NES and also the Nintendo Seal of Approval. This meant that to get a game launched on the NES you had to meet certain criteria set by Nintendo themselves. Ninty felt that if this seal of quality ment something then people would regain faith in home video games consoles. It worked and the NES was a huge success. Naturally they continued this through to the SNES when again it was successful.

    Things then changed...where you previously had Sega & Nintendo and a relatively small "hardcore" user base, this was about to change. The playstation was launched with a stack of great 3rd party titles, many with a much more fashionable theme. Games like Wipeout with it's house music audio tracks, Tekken the arcade smash beat em up, Tomb Raider, the first "sexy" game heroine and Ridge racer, another top arcade smash hit helped move gaming away from the "hardcore" following it once enjoyed and video games became the next mass market media type!

    Nintendo continued with it's seal of approval and it kept releasing superbly playable updates of it's classics (Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Metroid etc.) but it turned down many software houses with ideas that it deemed unsuitable for games! Instead of looking at what games were really successful (Streetfighter 2 on the SNES and Goldeneye on the N64 - both 3rd party) and allowing more 3rd party developers on board they strangely ailienated them by wanting to over control the conent that would appear on their machines. Development kits for their consoles were only sent early to a few delevlopers that agreed to work closely with Nintendo (like Rare) and as a result they couldn't compete with the volume and diversity of games that appeared on the Playstation.

    So they did it as they believed that allowing free reign to 3rd party developers would result in loads of poor quality titles for their console. Sony have proved that this is not the case though. People can now read professional reviews along with other peoples views of a game almost as soon as the game has been released so in todays competetive world games must be of a reasonable quality to survive! Back in the days of the Atari people didn't know how good a game was until they played it, there was no internet, no games shows on TV and virtually no magazines! Games companies got away with releasing poor games and they made a lot of money from it.

    Nintendo are a great games developer but they need to allow the top 3rd party developers a free reign on their consoles if they want to survive in this new age of gaming!
     
  25. SILVERBACK

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    cheers for the info gthom3.i like the idea of the "seal of approval" and it is a hell of a idea but like you said i kinda backfired a little and the 3rd party boys now go to xbox and ps2.i think nintendo where right to a certain degree when you look at the huge catalogue of games the ps2 has then look at the amount of genuine classics its a pretty bad average.the problem was when the likes of GTA and the other original games where coming out nintendo didnt jump on them straight away.nintendo do have the rights to resi though DAMN YOU NINTENDO lol.
     
  26. CAS FAN

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    yeah it's a tricky one and I do see both points of view :

    Nintendo : control the software so that we only have great games released - result is a small selection of great games.

    PS2/X-Box : allow free reign for 3rd party developers to release what they want - result is a small selection of great games, a large selection of average to good games and a small selection of rubbish.

    The problem with almost censoring what games people will play is that peoples tastes vary. A good or average game to one may be great to another, or poor to another. Also you have the difference in culture between Japan and the west. It is easy for the Japanese to wrongly perceive which games we want to play. A massive example is the fact that they never released Radient Silvergun on the Saturn over here! Basically one of if not the best shoot em up ever and it didn't get a western release and now sells for around 100 quid on ebay! Nintendo did favor the cutsey Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda type characters and (although they are all great games & characters) they have kind of type cast themselves. If people want violent 3rd person adventure games or realistic driving games then they tend to think PS2 or X-Box as even if they are released now (like resi) people simply associate Nintendo with Mario.

    Nintendo are really victims of their own success. They have some very strong brands in Mario etc but they are aimed at too narrow a market. Playstation on the other hand also has a strong brand but this brand is aimed at a much wider audience. To cater for this wide market they also have a wide selection of games cattering for all tastes. Playstation appeals to all ages from young kids to 30 year olds, like me! Nintendo appeals to kids and some older gamers that grew up with Nintendo, again like me. However people my age who are fairly new casual gamers (a massive market now) don't tend to go for Nintendo's. X-Boxes appeal to the more techologically minded gamers (again like me lol) where how a game looks & sounds is of high importance. This age group tends to be 20-30's. It's obvious when you break it down like that to see why the PS2 sells far more that the others with the X-box a distant second. The PS2 is a jack of all trades master of none really - it has something to appeal to most people and whilst it may not be the most powerful or the cheapest it's a brand that people (especially the casual gamers that jumped onboard with the PS1) feel comfortable with.

    It's difficult to see how things will change really, Nintendo will have to do a lot of work to change the view that people have of them and Microsoft seem to be carving their own niche by being the technofans fave! Both Nintendo and M$ have to somehow make their brands "cool" so that they appeal to all age groups and casual and hardcore gamers alike. Sony are the first console manufacturer ever to manage this amazing feat and they will take some shifting.
     
  27. SILVERBACK

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    good points.i think the main problem nintendo now face is there last 2 console games which had the seal of approval where awesome absolutely without doubt classics.the newer batch of triple a titles have been decidedly dodgy and there is no longer that guarntee of getting an awesome game imho.thats not to say there all dodgy i just dont think they have the amount of knockout tiltes that they use to have.its also nice to see well thought out debate without the usual crap fanboy comments sneaking out lol ME included.
     
  28. CAS FAN

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    indeed, Fanboy comments do not really benefit these discussions as they simply take a thread off topic. I own a PS2 but to be honest i'd like to own all three machines. At the moment I don't have the money or the time to use all three so I stick with the PS2 which currently has the widest & biggest range of games, even though the games are not of the highest technical quality.

    I'm looking forward to PES 4 and Outrun 2 on the X-Box though and hope to be able to get one when those two are released.

    The sad thing is that although I like Nintendo a lot, the game cube is way down on my shopping list. There are some games like Zelda, F-Zero, Resi 4, metroid prime, Mario Kart and Pimkin that i'd love to play but i'd much rather sample what the X-Box has to offer now & in the future (Halo 1&2, PGR2, Forza Motorsport, Outrun 2, Pes4 etc) that what the Gamecube does. The sad thing is that I grew up with Sega & Nintendo and each have a place in my gaming heart. The fact is that as console developers Sega have already gone and I fear Ninetndo will have to do something drastic to avoid going the same way.

    I can only see a future of console production run by the giants that are Sony & Microsoft, with both Sega & Nintendo doing what they do best - making great games!
     

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