Do LCD's still suffer from motion blur @ 720p?? Fact or fiction

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs Forum' started by Ramspeed, Jul 3, 2005.

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  1. Ramspeed

    Ramspeed
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    Anyone with a new LCD and feeding it 720p from an XBox through component? Anyone feeding it upscaled DVD? Can you comment on motion blur? Has anyone experienced motion blur or smearing @ 720p using component/vga/hdmi? Or is it just low res and/or interlaced signals that produce blurring?

    Put all your info here! Let's find out if LCD's cut the mustard!
     
  2. Nick_UK

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    LCD TV's are not as well spec'd as LCD PC monitors. LCD TV's are TV's first, and PC monitors second. There is always a "trade off" on any multi-use device. Pixel response times of LCD TV's are typically double that of LCD PC monitors.
     
  3. DanH

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    Its something i will be trying soon, but havent done so yet.
    I get the odd smear on freeview, but im pretty sure its because of it being a crap compressed low res interlaced signal, rather than the panel causing it. Playing DVDs at 576i is a massive difference in terms of PQ and better motion, but still you can notice the odd smear here and there. Mainly text moving horizontally, which again i believe is due to it being interlaced (The beginning of Layer Cake was the last time i noticed it, when the camera pans past all the bottles of aftershave/perfume etc, the text is difficult to read). Its the first thing im going to check when i get a decent prog scan DVD player.

    My TV actually has a response time half of what my 17" LCD monitor does (not that quoted response times are at all reliable), and yet playing FPS games @ 1280x1024 on the monitor shows no smearing or blurring at all. You can make it blur on purpose by spazzing around really fast with the mouse, but its something you never come across during normal use.
     
  4. Axel40

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    I play x-box but only through composite at the moment and it's fine, no smearing.

    I can comment on 720p though, absolutely perfect on every film I have watched, no smearing or blur at all.
    I really like.

    This is through a Sammy HD 850 on a Video7 32" LCD btw, bloody great buy imo.

    I did notice some 'blocky' blacks in dark scenes but after about 50 hours this cleared up by itself, guess it needed to 'burn in' :D
     
  5. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    The type of video signal has nothing to do with smearing caused by the panel itself. Most smearing people see and talk about is caused by a poor response time on the panel, not the deinterlacer. Changing the video signal to progressive would obviously get around anything being caused by the deinterlacer, but there's nothing you can do about lag on the panel.
     
  6. Ramspeed

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    I'm sure you're right Lyris. The only question that remains then is how fast the panel has to be to eliminate blur altogether? 16ms? 12 ms? 8ms? Hard to get an answer on this. Wish I could...because I don't really want to get a set until I know.
     
  7. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    Ah, very good question. It'll be a very hard one to answer seeing as manufacturers like to twiddle around with figures behind our backs... how exactly is the response time measured for example. My brother bought a Sony LCD monitor that claimed 12ms but it ghosted everywhere, far more than my own PC 16ms TFT. Perhaps the panel driver maybe has a lot to do with it as well?

    And then we have the fact that CRTs are said to produce some mild ghosting of their own, and it gets very hard to know what numbers will give perfect results. Hmmm.
     
  8. Llanowar

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    The time is measured differently by all companies, mostly from black to white, which is faster than grey to grey. Grey to Grey is getting more the industry standard, even so, there are digital enhancers that try to get around the low reaction time (sharp's quick shoot technology for example). JVC claims their lcd has a 7ms delay, but i doubt it's the best screen around...
     
  9. SIDEARM

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    Regardless as the article at Firing Squad said anyone quoting a response time of under 10ms may not have blur free panels (who does), but the blurring should be so minimal that you wont notice it during normal gameplay even in fast games. If you look for it youll probably be able to find it but it wont be distracting during gameplay. I should think that any of the newer panels should be fine for gaming especially if you feed them progressive signals.
     
  10. clash33

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    I belive that the new soon to be released Phillips 9830 is supposed to have this sorted with its LCDClear - Backlight technology (If it's fitted) :D
     
  11. SteveW70

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    Trouble is that a low quoted response time isn't necessarily going to tell you whether motion blur will be eliminated or not. I think there's a lot more to it, technically, than that :rolleyes:
    I'm not a gamer but have never experienced motion blur on my V7 32incher.
    All fast moving objects through normal Terestrial viewing are fine.
    DVD's via component @ 576p from my Lite-on LVW5045 are simply stunning.
    Whats the response time you ask.... 18ms
    And yet I recently set up a mates Samsung 26incher (sorry don't know the model no.) and witnessed motion blur on some sport we watched through Sky+ via GQ Gold Scart.
    The response time of that....16ms.
    IMHO just looking at the response time wont necessarily tell the whole picture if you pardon the pun.

    What the answer is who knows. The only way to be sure is by testing the set out yourself or getting info from sites like this.
     
  12. hammersmith

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    Hi,
    I've played back 720p content from my modded xbox. it was a short movie about the space shuttle. launch, viewing earth from orbit and landing.
    My xbox struggled to play the file at first but tweaking the cache settings in xmbc seemed to help a little. I had no problems watching this on my Hitachi 32LD7200. The pq was astounding and no smearing was evident even during fast panning shots after launch. The only problem I had is that my old xbox couldn't really keep up :D

    Cheers,
    H
     
  13. alefsin

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    You should be careful when making such statements. Some of the better LCD TVs can be better than the best LCD Monitors in the response time. As an example, take a look at this review where Tom's hardware has tested a few 30 and 32" LCD TVs. They have a very accurate method to measure the response time (provided as a graph giving all the possible values in transitions between different gray levels.) Here you can see that Tosh 32WL48 actually is better than one of the fastest LCD monitors.
     
  14. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I've never seen an LCD monitor that has a better response time than an LCD TV myself - perhaps I've just not seen enough of each, though.
     
  15. Ramspeed

    Ramspeed
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    Just had an illuminating response from GaryB (the JVC engineer). He pointed out that the response time was less important than the ingenuity and horsepower of the processing. By processing he did not mean image enhancing and all that crap (WEGA, Pixel plus, DNLe, DIST etc) merely the quality of the electronic engineering - which is hard to advetise which is why they use response times as a simplistic marketing ploy. The reason why the big boys deliver better LCD's is not because their panels are faster it's because their engineers are better. Look at the Panny 500 series. Clearly a fine LCD - but with a response time of 'only' 14ms. You get what you pay for.
     

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