Question Do i 'upgrade' from my Pioneer LX-5090 for a huge 4k Led?

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by peugeot205gti, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    Hi all,

    I am sure a lot of you on here have asked yourselves the same question (Thread Title)

    I currently own a Pioneer LX-5090, i bought it used around 3 years ago for £400. At first i had a disaster, when i got it home and watched a film in complete darkness i saw the dreaded RED TINT. I eventually was able to get rid but it did involve a 'reset' and further tweaking. It doesn't appear to be coming back now though so all good. Pic looks awesome.

    If i had the money i would be saying bye bye to the Pioneer now, i'd replace it with a 65 Inch OLED and be sorted for years but they start at 2 grand, just too much for me currently.

    I've considered a 55 inch OLED many times but i really can't justify spending £1,200 for an extra 5 inches and a slightly better pic, rather keep my Pioneer and have £1,200 in my pocket!

    I was considering a cheap 65inch LED 4k, only one with a VA panel though, viewing angles aren't an issue for me, my sofa sits center of the TV.

    Obviously, i don't expect the blacks and shadow details to be as strong but will i care when the screen is 15 inches bigger as well as being able to watch some 4k?

    My brother owns a 55 inch 4k Panasonc dx700b, (i think that is the model) which uses a VA panel and when you look at it head on, i must admit, the blacks were actually very good. Watched some 4k Netflix and i never once thought how terrible the blacks were, only when i sat to the side of the TV did it look absolutely awful!!!

    I still preferred my Pioneer picture quality overall, it just feels so natural but the 55 inch LED felt more immersive. I also felt that some of the material on sky looked 'cleaner' on the LED in comparison.

    I was thinking of buying the cheapest VA panel 65 inch i can find which i believe is around £700? (Any suggestions would be great) and selling the Pioneer.

    At least if the 65 inch LED proves to be a bad move then at least the 65 inch OLEDs should have reduced significantly in a couple of years.

    Let me know your thoughts
     
  2. Hixs

    Hixs
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    You'd need to buy a half decent LCD to not regret losing the plasma. So minimum 1k budget I would think.
     
  3. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    Thanks, black levels are massively important to me so it must be VA panel. What is the cheapest 65 VA Panel you can buy currently? Sound quality, smart TV and design isn't important to me.

    I see Currys are selling the HISENSE H65N5750UK for £699 - does this use a VA panel?

    Thanks
     
  4. Hixs

    Hixs
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  5. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I have moved this to the correct section.

    There are a number of questions to ask really, would you be happy with motion similar to the DX700?

    How far away will you view? You ideally want to view very close to an UHD TV, even 65" to benefit from it. About 1.2m optimum and at 2.4m away you start not to notice a difference. My 65" UHD TV I have to view very close to notice UHD looking a lot better in terms of detail compared to a good FHD Blu-Ray.

    Should you upgrade from purely a size and detail perspective? Well yes an UHD model will look great with good, high quality content. It will give you better colours with HDR too.

    Should you upgrade if you still want to use it for watching normal TV and DVDs? Probably not, your pioneer will be a lot better for that.

    And then you have to think, should I upgrade to a budget model? What is the difference between low end and high range TVs? Well the main difference is in HDR. If you use HDR and want it to look its best, that's when you need to consider spending a lot more.

    Last I looked both the Hisense 65N6800 and Panasonic 65EX700 were priced very well, especially the Hisense. If you can stretch further and want better motion, the new Hisense 65U7A isn't bad value either, especially for a newly released TV. That will get you a 120hz panel too which will let you use greater motion settings on the TV to improve motion if you want too.
     
  6. THX2002

    THX2002
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    Im in the same boat as you, my trusty 5090 still troops on with great picture. Plus I dont have to heat the living room in the winter ;)

    My plan is to replace with the new 55803 from Philips. I was privvy to spend some time with this set side by side with a few others and it was impressive. BUT at £2800 retail is alot of money.

    Being no fan of Samsung LCD, my short list also comprises Panasonic and this years Sony's that were announced yesterday.
     
  7. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Its mentioned in lots of other threads but avoid paying newly released 2018 prices if you can. The only company that doesn't inflate new RRPs is Hisense.

    In the case of the Philips 803 @THX2002 you may be better off buying the Philips POS9002 now which is the same TV as the 873 they are carrying on next year.

    If you buy the 803 when it comes out you can expect to pay for that luxury. The benefits of a new TV does not justify the increase in price and in this instance, the older model will actually be better.

    The LG OLEDs should also be considered since they have the advantage of dolby vision and dynamic tone mapping support.
     
  8. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    Thanks for the responses,

    I sit around 9 feet away roughly which is why i feel the need to upgrade from a 50inch, it just seems too small when watching movies. I really don't feel i'll benefit much at all with a 55 inch LG OLED, it probably won't even 'feel' bigger than the Pioneer because the Pioneer has a large frame!

    I guess what i am looking for is a stop gap TV until 65 inch OLED's come down in price. I know OLED is what i want but it is so far out of my budget. A lot of kids TV channels will be on this TV during the day also so you can imagine how uncomfortable i'll be with all those logos trying to burn the screen. I know the same can happen on the Pioneer but its never caused an issue and is now worth less than £200 anyway!

    HDR, although great, isn't all that important to me just yet, these are all things i look forward to seeing in a 2 or 3 years when OLEDs have dropped in price.

    Motion, i remember IFC on my Panasonic uto50b plasma and it was awful, in fact i cannot stand any of this stuff that makes the picture look sped up? Never seen a movie at the cinema like that and it just made sports even worse imo. So quite happy not to have these features.

    I am looking for best contrast/black levels and colour accuracy as possible on an entry level/mid range 65 LED.

    RS currently selling the Hisense 6800 for £699 and the 5300 for £579, refurbished 1 year warranty.

    Are both of these VA panels?

    Thanks
     
  9. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    @peugeot205gti did you read the link in my post regarding motion settings? IFC aka Motion Interpolation is only one form of motion setting now on most TVs. There are means to use motion settings to reduce blur and judder without introducing soap opera effect, even though the ability to induce soap opera effect still exists on all TVs its entirely optional.

    Motion is a different beast on LCDs and OLEDs to plasma TVs, moving from my Plasma to my LCD made me notice stutter a lot more on pans and I have to use motion interpolation to help with that. On a plasma TV out of the box motion is very good and no motion settings are needed, but the same cannot be said to LCDs.

    But motion is highly subjective and that's why I asked if you were happy with motion on your brothers DX700? If you are then you will be fine with the Hisense N6800. It will be similar. If you aren't sure, ask your brother if you can visit to have a play with his TV. Take/watch some content that you watch and test the motion yourself. It will be very similar to the Hisense. You can also use different motion controls in intelligent frame creation on the TV if you aren't happy with how it performs out the box.

    Most people I would say go to the shop to test motion, but if your brother has a similar TV it would be a good opportunity to get an idea of what to expect from LCD motion without having to deal with that.

    The Hisense N6800 at £700 is an absolute steal, the TV was reviewed and recommended on here when it was £1100.

    Hisense H65N6800 4K LED TV Review

    I wouldn't go as low as the N5300, it may be alright but it is a TV that hasn't seen many reviews so its quality is more questionable compared to the N6800.

    If you want an alternative it would be the Panasonic 65EX700 or Sony's 65XE70xx series but those are probably very thin on the ground right now and likely expensive.

    9ft is about optimum for 1080p on a 65". Not sure you will benefit from UHD much, if at all at that distance. However it will also mean that 1080p content and content even lower resolution than that won't look as bad.
     
  10. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    I only seem to recall seeing IFC on my brothers Panasonic but will take a look the next time i am there, i wasn't aware of the other motion settings available, it has been a while since i had an LCD screen.

    I think i need to take some blu-rays round and see just how good it can look in dark room and if satisfied i'll purchase the Hisense if they have any stock left!

    Thanks
     
  11. Mane UK

    Mane UK
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    Hey THX, can I ask where you got the pricing info on the Philips 803?
    All the previous statements and rumours have it as the entry level oled from Philips and suggested it would be priced 'aggressively' below the 9002/873 so that number is shockingly high.
    Thanks.
     
  12. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    That's release pricing for you.
     
  13. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    can't see a Hisense 65 n6800 anywhere, other than the Richersounds one for £699 but that is REFURBISHED with 1 year warranty. Is it too risky? Or worth every penny still?
     
  14. generalgizmo

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    Hi Peugeot
    Tbh if I was you I would stick with the kuro till you get more money together as if you have a voltage tweaked pioneer and go to a big led and NOT interested in hdr then I think your wasting your money... the picture will not be to your liking especially in a dark room and motion won't seem same either.. I wish I kept my krp500 rather than buy the 600 as a stop gap thinking I'll be happy but the move to oled was inevitable and should have kept saving instead... I now have the ez952 in my den but only for films.. and a 5090 from new in front room so have the best of both I feel.. kuros great in all areas..
    If you get the led as a stop gap you'll then have the hassle of selling that.. and won't get much back for it as everyone will want a deal and remind you that a new one is only a bit more..
    If it's an oled your truly after they do buy now pay later in RS 10 months if over 1k and pay min 10% deposit...
    I'm more than happy with mine and with a few settings it plays movies like my pioneer motionwise but absolute blacks and brighter insane detail too. beats the kuro for 1080 bluray... but not by miles as they were great plasmas and if oled didn't exist the den pioneer would stay... 4k though is a different league though... if you like plasma the ez is plasma like as cinematic... you could get a 2017 oled for far less than 2018 one... currently I think the 2017 ez952 65".. is only 300 quid more than the 2018 "55" fz oled. So savings can be had the LG oled is even less...
    Ps.. a new tv will have 6yr warranty don't jump in take your time.. that's coming from me and I'm the most impatient person I know:facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  15. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    Hi General,

    Some fair points there. 55inch OLED, although affordable, just isn't worth my money atm, if i upgrade i want it to be 65 inches. Perhaps i just need to keep saving for a 65inch OLED, at least the prices should continue to fall.

    What about 65inch 4k HDR content on say a Hisense 6800 or Panasonic 700 vs 1080p Kuro, do you still think the Kuro would be more pleasing?

    I guess another reason to go OLED is that is should have good resale value in the future, i can't imagine the LED being worth anything in 5 years.

    I still cannot believe how far ahead the Kuro must have been at the time to still be up there as one of the very best, i bought it used nearly 3 years ago. It must be 10 years old now? I can't see it ever giving up! :)
     
  16. iwb100

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    Can I add an annoying money saving logic tip in? What is the point of a "stop gap" TV? If yours is ok now then stick with it.

    By spending money on a stopgap all you are doing in reality is adding to the total amount you will be spending to get a TV you actually want.

    It is different if your TV needs replacing now. You buy what you can afford. But as that isn't the case and you have a target in mind, why not wait? You might get a 65" OLED cheap come black Friday - you never know.
     
  17. generalgizmo

    generalgizmo
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    Totally agree that was the point I was trying to make.. I made the mistake of getting a krp600 instead of keep saving although I still got decent enough return on it..
    The krp500 was alot closer in black levels to oled but the 600 had the wow factor cos of the size.. It was great but after I saw the oled I then found fault with my 600 as it looked grey..
    And Peugeot... if it wasn't for the oled I would still be using a pioneer in the den.. I've had my front room one from new so nearly 10yrs it was night and day better than anything at the time till the last Panasonic plasmas came along.. I know 200 odd quid for a kuro now is about 10% of its original value monitor only and getting a low end led size wise will be great but from what you say is important to you doubt youll be happy in other ways and then be in the position of trying to get rid of it.. cannot imagine you getting a 10% return on the stop gap tv you mention in 5yrs.. let alone 10.. I think kuros held their value as they were so great.. still are in many ways.. but it's gone past the stage where the kuros and vts zts were unbeatable with the emergence of oled and super high end led tv's..
     
  18. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    If you want hdr to look good you need to setting your aim higher that budget TVs.

    It's a common misconception that you either have HDR or you don't on TVs, well, who can blame anyone for thinking that when every TV now is marketed with it?

    But in reality it's not like that at all. It's not like it was in the Pioneer days where more money bought you superior picture quality with SDR.

    Today it's all about HDR, the difference between high end and low end TVs are with HDR.

    So if you want to take advantage you have to pay more.

    If you don't want to take advantage then gains will be minimal, to worse compared to the Pioneer.

    I agree you should just wait and save up. The new TV bug makes us impatient but waiting will pay off in the end.

    A stop gap would only be a good idea if you plan on using lots of uhd material and view close enough to benefit from it. UHD unlike HDR is a resolution just like HD and FHD are but beware that even with large TVs and viewing close enough to notice a difference the jump in quality compared to the first hd TVs Vs SD TVs is very small. Do you remember the HD skeptics saying they couldn't tell a difference with HD? That's even more the case now with UHD.

    You must be prepared to take some steps backwards when changing technology anyway but that's even more the case with a stop gap TV.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  19. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Just edited my post. So many mistakes and typos partly because of no time, but mainly because Google keyboard sucks.
     
  20. georgijlv

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    Personally im not so sure about it ,burn in issue will affect this tehnology also in aftermarket sales
     
  21. peugeot205gti

    peugeot205gti
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    Thanks for all of the responses.

    I haven't yet decided what do do but should the Red Tint return, which it hasn't done this time after a few more tweaks/resets, then this may 'force' me into making a decision.

    I'm not sure if this is related the the TV reset but i have noticed, more so when watching Sky movies, the near black scenes are a mess. This is probably down to compression artifacts but it completely ruins the experience. I will test the same footage on my brothers TV when i am there next. Netflix looks a lot better though, i will check a couple of Blu Rays over the next few days as well. TV must have 20k hours on it now!

    BTW, LG 65 OLED now £2,000!
     
  22. generalgizmo

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    2k is a good price... be worth checking out the oleds rather than just buying blind.. quite a few such as myself bought the Panasonic as it's very plasma like..
     
  23. Mane UK

    Mane UK
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    I'm seeing the Philips 803 listed at significantly less than the figure quoted. The TV hasn't yet been released, so I don't know if that is release pricing for me, or if it is the rrp equivalent, or if it is just speculation from a news story somewhere taken as fact, or even a typo!
    Someone in the 55oled803 thread has posted they have a preorder for 1080 €
    The figure THX quotes would seem high even for the 65oled803, although a bit more realistic than for the 55...
     
  24. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    @Mane UK lets hope that is right and similar in price to here in the UK.

    Availability from Philips certainly needs to get better in the UK, if we get the same prices as that shop in Slovenia it will be outstanding and a massive buck of trend.
     

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