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Do I really need a sub!?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by johna, Aug 6, 2001.

  1. johna

    johna
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    with a room measuring 6x4 meters and with the kit I have (STRB940, B&W 601,603,CC6)

    Would I really notice that much difference in the base - it seems excellent at the moment.

    Is there anyone else running a system without a sub?
     
  2. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    I would wager a fiver that a decent sub would make a significant improvement to your system.<br />Why not get a home demo of something like a REL Storm or Strata, take the time to set it up correctly and listen for yourself?
     
  3. johna

    johna
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    I was thinking about it, would a sub make my 603's slightly to 'big'.

    Would I be best, in your opinion, to trade in my 603's and maybe buy a set of 602's instead?
     
  4. Guest

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    Johna.<br />1) Yes you really do eant at least one sub<br />2) Do not replace your 603's for 602's<br />If your really interested i will quite happily go into the 101 reasons why a sub is for life and not just for christmas. In A.V terms of the 4000 odd members here find one who had a (good) sub and decided they were happier without it.<br />Simply put the only decision is "which" rather than "whether".

    Sreiously.
     
  5. Guest

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    Humble apologies.<br />Should read - want, seriously etc etc

    P.S A room of the dimensions you refer<br /> to will really benefit from the low stuff.
     
  6. johna

    johna
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    Great Reply Steve

    I think I'll print that off and pin to my door for when the neighbours come knocking!

    I think I will at least audition one then - which is a pain! but rather that than take pot luck on someone elses review!

    Cheers!
     
  7. Guest

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    Johna.<br />What sort of budget are we talking? (If i do say so myself) subsonics is a field on which i feel i have modest experience/knowledge.<br />Off topic slightly one of the best (cheap) "tools" for tuning your room, sub and main speakers (apart from your ears) is Strykes basszone test dc vol.1 which contains individual test tones (among others) from 10hz through to 20khz, great for cross-over settings, phase relationships between speakers, analysing the "peaks and troughs" of your room acoustics.<br /><a href="http://www.stryke.com" target="_blank">www.stryke.com</a><br />about £10 delivered (from usa)<br />you will of course require an spl meter for "best" results.
     
  8. Guest

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    Again apologies should read - test CD.
     
  9. johna

    johna
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    To be honest I think about the budget after I've decided what I want (within reason) and without meaning to sound like a tit!

    After looking around I like the reviews and feedback (not to mention the size) of the Miller & Kreisel VX-100.

    However I know very little about this and am just taking word of mouth.

    Have you heard this?
     
  10. Guest

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    Indeed i have. It's a very "tight" sounding sub, VERY small footprint and gives surprising SPLS whilst remaining utterly musical and coherent. (i think you would struggle to find many with bad performance related views of pretty much any MK sub), - downsides are requires boundary reinforcement (as is intended) and doesn't go that low.<br />Unless you have £££££'s unfortunately with pretty much all sub's i have come across there are compromises, and the choice must be yours (demo'ing a sub in a demo room IMHO will only tell so much it's performance hopefully will have been refined and tweeked by the shop people and you are hearing it perform well given that it's sited in the optimum position is being fed via decent cables from a top notch source. You may not be able to satisfy these conditions at home due to furnituer,missus etc so a home demo is far more beneficial, conversely it may be set up appalingly bad and put you off a perfectly capable sub altogether) Do you require musical ability as a premium, secondary or not at all concern. While in theory "a sub's a sub" generally people tend to make their sub purchases based on a preference for musical or HC abilities (Rel ST/Q series being an example).<br />However Know this without any doubt the "SCARE FACTOR" frequencies (regardless of SPL) reside in the 10-20hz and no higher, if you want the "**** that's REALLY low" then these are the figures you must take into consideration. Only the really high end model's of Rel and MK acheive this.<br />I have two Rel Storms (£700 each) and a Paradigm Servo 15. The Rel's are wonderfully musical and a joy to listen too but roll off way before 20hz whilst the £500 Servo is IMHO (though Nic Rhodes would vehemently deny this) utterly un-musical slow and timbre-less yet in AV terms is (again IMHO and i've heard a few sub's) is without peers to the +£1000 bracket incredible extension down to 14hz it will break windows (literally) just with LF at low SPLs a truely awesome Arnie film enhancing product - so you pays your money and you takes your (hopefully minimised as much as possible) chance.<br />Also consider perhaps 2 smaller sub's which will 99.9% of the time give you a much more even and controlled sound than 1 large one.
     
  11. titan

    titan
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    hi, sorry to hijack this thread but i would like to get the benifit of experiance of someone who is familiar with M&K subs and steveEX seems to know the stuff.

    Steve if you have heard them could you please give you views on the M&K THX subs specifically the 150 and 350 thx jobbies and the differences between the two. I'm tinking of an upgrade from my kef tdm45b and wonder how much of an improvement to expect considering they cost a rediculus amount of cash.

    thanks heaps<br />nathan.
     
  12. Reiner

    Reiner
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    As for the initial question here something interesting to "study":

    <a href="http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html" target="_blank">http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html</a>
     
  13. GarryF

    GarryF
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    I have the same front and centres as you and when I got a Rel Q200E it really made a big difference. Was one of those changes where everyone can spot the difference a mile off <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
     
  14. Noel

    Noel
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    Yep, I had the same speakers and added a Linn Sizmik. Massive difference. You won't regret getting a decent sub, whichever one you go for.
     
  15. Guest

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    Titan.<br />I have "played" with the 350.<br />Here are my honest thoughts on it, whilst i fully expect "the backlash" from the 350 owning community (of which there are a few here and having lived withed it perhaps their views are more apt given as you say the astronomical cost of the thing) my opinions are my own.<br />Firstly physically very large, but then so is your tdm (what speakers are you using?)<br />Sound quality is sublime (you only have to look at the list of pro-users to know it's esteem) it has that ability (just like the top Rel's - Studio, to become an invisible component, i "played" with it in conjunction with the high end Nautilus speakers and without a shadow of doubt it is a unit of utter quality. It's dynamic qualities are again superb - you "percieve" pretty much instantaneous ("tron-like") start stop's that are uniform regardless of spl's of which there is more than enough.<br />Here's the crunch though.<br />I didn't think it went that low. IMHO the "scary stuff" resides in 10-20hz bracket and as much as i played with (it may of been simply room acoustics but i honestly don't think so) there was no doubt that playing the 20khz-20hz sweep on a THX optimode disc (unfortunately and incredibly i did not have my sub test cd) it was definately rolling off at the lowest frequencies, it simply was not flat to 20hz (0db).<br />Call me a "ludite" but the 20hz and lower frequencies are the ones that i most want to hear(?)-(feel is more accurate).<br />Not to harp on a point but i own a £500 servo that is quite happy at around 15 hz.<br />Would i buy one, no but that's just me, for that money i could buy 3 or 4 other sub's and i am a fervent believer in 2 (slightly) lesser sub's driving a room better (unless you happen to live in anachoic chamber) in a much more refined manner than 1 better.<br />Crudely put "musically and ablility to integrate" this is a top notch product that is hands down better than your Kef and my Rel's and Paradigm, is it cost-ratio times better? only some serious home demo'ing by yourself can answer that (obviously dependant on quality of your source components also)<br />It is a great sub-full stop, as it should be for the price i was just surprised that it didn't rattle my teeth that's all.<br />I am sure more experienced owners will decry all defamitory remarks and regardless spend a good week with it yourself.
     
  16. Guest

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    You may or may not want to take into consideration the 350 is way out of my budget.<br />I would most definately recommend the Mirage bps400 at just over the half the cost of the 350 i would (personally) have 2 of these over 1 350 every single time, the bps is an all-round stunner! (IMHO).
     
  17. titan

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    Thanks steve thats cetinaly food for thought. and i guess the ultimate answer as always with speaker purchaces is have a listen yourself.

    for your info i use the kef tdm reference series home theatre speakers, which i am etreemely happy with except the sub. i have a small room and yet i can geet it to bottom out before i cry enough, which is not exactly what i expected it does have some massive output though but just seems to have trouble with the very low stuff. unfortunately it seems to also have a build fault, it rattles sympathetically at a certain frequency, somethings loose inside i'm sure. which puts me of getting anouther to complete the two sub senario. in fact the sub doesntr seem to have the same build quality as the rest of the speakers, which are very solid mdf units, maybe because its really an old design of theres that they changed slightly to get THX certification.

    you didnt mention the 150 i assume therefore you havent played with one. i was hoping to understand the diference between the two as they both look the same in every way except the power amp rating. i have to wonder given my smallish room if a 150 wouldnt be enough given its supposed to give THX output into a 3000 cubic foot room with a single unit and it would be easier to get anouther to complete the two sub stup.

    well if any one else has any experiance with these subs please post comments.

    nathan

    ps. again i'm really sory to hijack your post johna very bad manners. i should've made a seperate post.
     
  18. johna

    johna
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    don't apologise

    intersting reading
     

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