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Do I need expensive DVD player with DVI

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by hotbelgo, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. hotbelgo

    hotbelgo
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    In other words, does a DVD player do anything when I'm asking it to output over DVI?

    I have built a computer to act as a PVR and it includes a graphics card with DVI output. The DVD player is bog standard and I guess there could be some software processing but none of the tricks of an expensive DVD player. But I'm hoping that none of that matters because it will output digitally and what really matters in the digital capability of the TV.

    For the latter I'm thinking of a Thomson 32LB220 or a Hitachi 32LD7200 or a Toshiba 32WL56, all of which are HD Ready (not that HD is coming anytime soon to Belgium). What do you think

    HotBelgo
     
  2. pjskel

    pjskel
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    Not totally sure. DVI, without HDCP handshaking, could be picked up by the display as a computer signal, and as such, not do wide aspect resolutions. It might only accept 1024x768, but if 1280x768 is handled, then you're laughing.
    It might also not allow aspect resizing via the menu controls - in other words, you won't be able to expand the picture.
    For me, I'd suggest looking at the Euro/Belgian equivalent of Samsung's 850/950 DVD players, which has a scaler built in to output DVD material at 720p. Not quite true HD, but better than a poke in the eye, with a sharp stick! :laugh:
    If you didn't get that bit of humour - it means better to have it than not at all.
    Did you consider the Sharp GA6 (coming this month, in the UK, if not Europe wide) or the JVC DS6? What about the Panny LDX500? Or are these over your budget?
     
  3. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Even with DVI, the DVD player has many tasks to perform on the signals so the quality of the player can have a dramatic difference in the final picture quality and that is even before the issues of scaling are taken into consideration.

    It is not uncommon for a half decent quality analogue DVD player to outperform a poor quality DVI based one.

    -Ian
     
  4. jriihi

    jriihi
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    Hitachi costs more than JVC. Atleast in other parts of europe :)
     
  5. hotbelgo

    hotbelgo
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    Thanks for your responses.

    My graphics card is an nvidia fx5200 and I use Linux, so I'm presuming that I should be able to tweak the output to ensure that it is widescreen. I have read a lot about 1:1 over DVI and presume this really means making my TV act like a normal monitor and not try to expand or contract the picture input to create some other format. I'm really unsure whether you are implying that this is something that will be probably easy or probably hard.

    As for which one, I have now found a site in the netherlands that has the panasonic 500 at a sensible price (there are very few belgian online retailers). I can't find the JVC DS6 (only S60) on sites in the Benelux. The Thomson seems to get good reviews (even in UK mags) but as it is is french it is a little more readily available in Belgium.

    I wanted the computer to do everything so that it was just two boxes that I had - PC and TV. I was thinking of putting a DVB-C tuner in the PC when we get digital TV this autumn, but don't really know what I should do about DVD.

    hb
     
  6. Rob1698

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    You will have to make sure that the TV can accept 50Hz refresh rate on DVI.
    In Linux it normally is no problem to output any format you want, but the TV may be accepting only 60Hz.
    When you output 50fps content over a 60Hz refreshed PC output, you will get nasty judder effects.

    Those are probably difficult to avoid even at 50Hz. I don't know if Linux apps are capable of syncing the output to the display refresh, I have not experimented with that.

    My Philips 32PF9986 can do PC display mode at 1280x768 only at 60Hz, and over VGA. I think (but have not yet tried) that over DVI it will only do 1024x768.
    It can do HDTV modes 720p and 1080i and I can generate those on the Linux system (although the latest nVidia drivers have broken 1080i which worked OK before). That I can do at both 50 and 60 Hz and both are accepted by the TV.

    All of these formats except 1080i are not completely fullscreen, and you don't want to convert everything to 1080i. So the "do everything in the PC" route is not really practical on the 9986.
    You may find that other more recent TVs have better handling of this, but as simple a solution as it may seem, you may be disappointed in how well it actually performs compared to simple off-the-shelf equipment connected via standard SCART or component video.
     
  7. jriihi

    jriihi
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    JVC DS6 (only S60) = DS6 = uk, S60 = europe. Same tv expect DS6 probably has freeview tuner for uk or something :)
     
  8. benwong

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    You can theoretically get better quality from a PC upscaling the DVD image to an HD resolution than if you used an upscaling DVD player; You can certainly tweak the PC a lot more!

    That is of course if you manage to get the PC connected to the screen via DVI/HDMI with 1:1 pixel mapping.

    Ben
     
  9. hotbelgo

    hotbelgo
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    We have a >13 year old PAL (for belgium) Sony CRT TV.

    I admit this is off topic for this forum but you may have given me an idea for my biggest problem so far. When I play DVDs or replay recorded programs I get jerkiness every 10 secs approx. A frame or so is lost and the sound often clicks as it catches up with itself. Is this what you call judder?

    My nvidia graphics card has a connections box attached to it with an s-video output. I use an s-video - 2 - scart to connect it to the scart socket on the TV. The scart input on the TV only supports composite so I have changed the xorg.conf file to override the output. In the[Monitor] section I have horizsync at 30-50 and have found (just tested) that X will not start unless I have vertRefresh at 60.

    Could my problems therefore be explained by your 50 / 60 issue? If so, how do I get round it?

    HB
     
  10. Rob1698

    Rob1698
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    The issue is quite complicated, and there are many things that can go wrong.

    At first you have the framerate at which the card runs. When using your old CRT TV, the TV will run at the same rate. That can be 50Hz or 60Hz (a PAL TV normally would not support that but in fact many of them do, although may end up with a vertically squeezed picture).

    Then there is the movie file or DVD player program, that outputs 50 or 60 (or 59.97) frames per second that are put into the video memory.
    You can easily see that this will mean trouble. Inputting 50 frames per second and outputting 60 will mean that 1 out of 5 frames is displayed twice. This causes a judder.

    However, inputting 60 and outputting 60 is also bound to cause problems, when both figures are not exactly 60. Both your videocard and your player may output a slightly different number of frames per second and there is a small interference that causes a hickup, apparently every 10 seconds in your case.

    For really good results, the player should synchronize itself to the vertical sync of the card.
    I do not know if this is being done in Linux players and if it is only a signal to store the picture in the card at the correct time, or if it will also lock the framerates.
    (when there is no locking at all, you typically will see horizontal breaks in scenes that pan horizontally)

    Fortunately when using an LCD panel you won't have to fight the nVidia "TV OUT" mode. That only complicates things even further (you work with a virtual resolution e.g. 800x600 at 60Hz and the card scales and converts this to the PAL signal, complicating things a lot).
    An LCD TV with VGA or DVI is just like a computer monitor and does not need a TV OUT capable videocard. a normal card (or dual-head if you want to connect a normal monitor as well) will do just fine.

    Before, I had an nVidia "personal cinema" card but now I use a generic dual-head FX 5200 based card.
     

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