1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Do I need DPLII or not?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Kootuu, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Hi,

    Just want to ask you guys something regarding DPLII.

    Ok, setting up my first home cinema kit, so far I have the following:

    Philips 28PW6006 TV
    Pioneer DV350S DVD Player
    Eltax Atomic 10 Sub

    Now, I've been offered a STR-DE475 for £80, second hand. Seems like a good deal to me. Only problem is it doesn't have DPLII.

    Now, the reason I ask is because this system is going to be used as both my main source for DVD's with 5.1 AND music, which is obviously recorded in stereo. I haven't got the sky box hooked up to this unit but at some point I will.

    So, how much better does DPLII handle stereo? Is this Amp going to be handle my requirements well enough? Otherwise I am interested in the Yamaha HTR5630RDS but that's £150...big difference, has DPLII thought.

    I've also heard some not so great things about sony amps. Any truth behind this?

    Cheers,
    Chris
     
  2. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    I personally listen to stereo as stereo, to pl2 it is to me butchery..... but if what you are asking is if pl2 handles music much better than standard pl. then i would have to say it does

    ad
     
  3. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    I find PLII works very well on material which is deliberately encoded as Dolby Surround - i.e. with a rear channel matrixed into the main two. I tend to switch it off for plain stereo recordings.
     
  4. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,054
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +136
    Ahhh, i dunno about that fellas.

    I think PLII Music is pretty good with 2 channel CD's.

    Well, it is on my Meridian.

    I've tweaked it to sound :smashin:

    I think i've got the right ambience @ the rear, and a good spread from the front.

    I certainly wouldn't say it "butchers" the sound:rolleyes:


    Adz
     
  5. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    My personal view..... but of course that could simply be related to my stereo amp being somewhat better than any surround producer I have ever heard.

    ad
     
  6. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Hmm, it's a pickle no doubt...

    Well, do you think for £80 I would be getting a good deal on that amp for what it can do? Or would you guys say plump for PLII?

    I mean I suppose I will be watching movies mostly and at the moment I either listen to music through my headphones or throught the TV...so I'm sure it will be an improvement...
     
  7. Dimmy

    Dimmy
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,399
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +0
    With Dolby 2.0 and Surround encoded tracks, PLII Cinema is a godsend, and manages to handle rear channel steering surpizingly well.

    It's also a massive improvement over bog standard PLI across the front soundstage, and steering is much more accurately handled.

    With music it's more of a mixed bag, and depends on the recording. Some albums sound truly stunning in PLII, and the effect achievable is very impressive indeed (even if the bass becomes somewhat lacking when the processing mode is engaged).

    After hearing its advantages over PLI, I couldn't - and won't - be going back :).
     
  8. cribeiro

    cribeiro
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,797
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    A Spaniard in Germany
    Ratings:
    +307
    plII is a must (IMO)! Not for stereo music, which in many cases doesn't get really improved (sometimes it does, though!), but what NicolasB says... Come on, I have even discovered excitement in the tv spots with that!
    As I asked for advice in this forum when I boght my receiver, most of the people said that plII is really worth. Oh, and movies from TV, that come in stereo, get a real improvement with it. Or for any vhs material...
    For music, I found that it doesn't always do the job, specially if it has a lot of sound effects (like echoes or sound going from one side to the other, etc... My experience was with Queen material). Nevertheless, in cases where the music is mixed to simply emulate a stage in front of you, my feeling is that the plII makes the stage wider and more surrounding (too much, usually). It doesn't butcher the sound, at least for my ears.
    About Sony, I have also heard that they are overpriced with respect to what they give in terms of quality, and have been told that Yamaha is better at the same price... But one guy in the forum told me that he liked more Sony, when he auditioned both together. Taste matters!
     
  9. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Well, DPLII definately sounds like it enhances a lot of things.

    But £80 seems like a good deal no?
     
  10. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    well at 80 you cant afford to be too picky! It doesnt sounds bad no

    ad
     
  11. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    I use DPLII for all stereo sources, and it is the best thing they invented since stereo... :clap:
     
  12. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    is it worth the extra £70 a Yamaha with DPLII do you think?
     
  13. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    For me it is, now if the system is not reasonably integrated, meaning all the speakers, stereo might sound better... :rolleyes:
     
  14. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    what do mean by reasonably integrated? Do you mean if I only had for example two speakers or even three, stereo might sound better?
     
  15. Paul Smith

    Paul Smith
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,030
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +142
    Hi,
    If it were me (Given your price range) I would go for an old flagship or relatively high-end amp without PL2.
    For example a Yamaha A3090 just went on ebay for £116. (This sort of thing makes the £80 for a budget model Sony STR-DE475 seem rather overpriced.) And I think a A3090 would undoubtably sound a hell of a lot better.

    PL2 is great!, but I don't think it's worth doubling your budget just to get it.

    Paul.
     
  16. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,054
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +136
    Bet your glad you never flogged it now eh?


    Adz
     
  17. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Hmm, I can see your point Paul, I have no idea what sort of range to be looking at.

    How much difference does a good amp make?
     
  18. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    You bet! :D Until I compared directly with the bryston sp1.7, i didnt know quite how good a thing I had, when i compared to the meridian 565 I just bolted the thing down! :D

    Its still a bit of a hassle having to manually set levels for films (since the pre isnt remote), but well worth it in the end of the day.

    Ad
     
  19. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    It makes a lot of difference. The poorest amp that you are likely to come across is in your TV so if you compare the output from the TV with your hifi you will have some idea.

    There are different implementations of PL2 and those here that say how good it is (like Spligsey) have a much more expensive amp on which PL2 sounds much better anyway.

    I "upgraded" from a Marantz amp with PL2 to a second hand ex flagship Denon amp without and never looked back as the quality of the amplification was much more important to me than yet more bells and whistles.
     
  20. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Interesting point Ian, I can understand that a budget PL2 will not be as good as a high end PL2.

    So, hmm, I'm obviously NOT in the price range for high end gear :D I'm looking at around £150 for the Amp/Receiver.

    Are there any you could suggest that might fall in this price range that could be worth looking at?

    One last question, do RicherSounds let you demo surround sound equipment even if they only have a hi-fi demo room?
     
  21. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    My experience of RS is that demo is the last thing they want you to do...... to get any demo is a real push but i think they offer a home trial period after which you can get your money back..... or they used to

    ad
     
  22. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,700
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +607

    That is not what Ian is saying, he is saying that a budget amp with PLII will not sound as good as an older flagship amp with vanilla prologic on a pound for pound basis.

    A yamaha 3090 went for £116 on ebay and I bet that would beat any now bit of kit up to £400 maybe £500 that you could buy today, to me the amp is the most important peice in the chain, there is nothing worse than a system that starts to struggle at the volume you want to really listen to it at.
    Go to a store and have a listen to say a £300 amp in PLII, and then tell them yo want to hear what you get for £1500 (fair price bracket based on power and current for a 3090 ? ) and listen to that in ProLogic, see which one you think sounds better :)
     
  23. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    I think we are mixing things a bit here... :rolleyes:

    Of course DPLII sounds better with top gear, so does stereo... :p

    I think one gets even better value from DPLII in lower end gear, for sure will get more involving and better sound from 5 budget speakers then from 2, probably also less distortion, as each will work less...

    Who doesnt prefer DVD sound from CD sound on those systems, guess why, because all the speakers are playing... :smashin:

    Now, if we are speaking about medium budget, I can understand that you spend most with the front pair...
     
  24. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    It seems like it's a matter of opinion and taste. Some of you think it's a good idea, others do not.

    Has anyone heard the Yamaha HTR5630? It's £169.95 from RS new. I'm leaning towards this amp but obviously it is one of the lower budget amps with PL2 so I can understand it might not as good as say a high end non PL2 amp at about the same price second hand?

    What Amp would you guys suggest for roughly the £150 price range?
     
  25. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    You can do a simple test, get a DVD with PCM and DD 5.1 or DTS tracks, hear wich track you prefer, PCM or multi-channel, if you prefer the later, then you will want DPLII... :lesson:

    I usually even prefer the PCM track using DPLII... :smashin:

    DD 2.0 is also good for the above test, instead of PCM...
     
  26. madjo

    madjo
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have the Yamaha HTR5630 and the PL2 is excellent and I use it all the time for tv. My video collection has come to life.
    One good example is Star Wars 'The Phantom Menace' on video, the pod racing scene is amazing in PL2.
     
  27. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Well, I don't know about that. The PLII processing on a cheap system will inevitably add distortion. Allowing the stereo signal through without messing with it may be preferable.

    I think almost everybody would agree that PLII is a good thing for a stereo track that has actually been encoded for Dolby Surround. Whether a plain stereo signal sounds better with PLII is more of a matter of taste, I think.
     
  28. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    You mean... you don't use the effectively-Meridian-only Trifield mode?

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real Spligsey?! :eek:
     
  29. Kootuu

    Kootuu
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    696
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    Don't want to sell yours do you Madjo? :D
     
  30. madjo

    madjo
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No chance mate, couldn't live without surround sound now :)
     

Share This Page

Loading...