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Do I need a pre-amp for vinyl?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by matt bellamy, Jan 16, 2005.

  1. matt bellamy

    matt bellamy
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    hi,

    I have decided to buy a seperate system consisting of NAD cd player, project turn table, rotel amp and Tannoy Speaker. I have been told to get an off board phono stage to get better sound from the Turn Table since the whole setup is really based around the turn table. Will I need an off board phono stage with the ROTEL RA01 AMPLIFIER and which is the best for no more than about £120.

    thanks (and sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm new to this :blush: )
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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  3. Stew

    Stew
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  4. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Using a £120 Phono stage into a £250 amplifer seems like Overkill to me, FWIW I would go with a NAD PP2 @ £40 to start off with, then see how happy you are with that.
     
  5. Zigster

    Zigster
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    I would have thought a separate phono stage was only really necessary if your amp didn't have one (and the spec of the Rotel RA01 amp includes a MM phono output). At this level, the £120 would probably be better spent elsewhere in the system - ie to go from a £250 amp to a nearly £400 amp.
     
  6. Stew

    Stew
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    I use my Gram amp 2 with a NAd 320BEE amp which is even less than £250, but whatever...
    Just use the pre amp in the Rotel :smashin:
     
  7. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    By a better integrated for £400 would be my answer( with built in phono stage of course)
     
  8. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Why not consider a Rotel RA-02 or Arcam diva A65?
     
  9. Londondecca

    Londondecca
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    Buying a second hand amp in the £400 range would give a lot more higher quality amps (Cyrus, LFD etc)
     
  10. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    You could try e**y of course
     
  11. matt bellamy

    matt bellamy
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    thanks for all the advice guys, I might consider spending more on an amp and not buying an off board phone stage. Could anyone recommend a complete setup consisting of AMP, Turn Table, CD player and speakers that would give the best sound (especially for vinyl) for about £1100 (maybe a bit more if necessary). I know some speakers suit certain AMPS and TT's but I have no clue which to choose :blush:
     
  12. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    You need to find a good dealer who will let you listen to different gear that fits within your budget and then you can make an informed choice based on advice given and what your ears tell you. Speakers are particularly a personal thing as they can vary a lot.A good dealer will also tell you which amps go best with which speakers and which cartridges are most useful. Project make some of the best budghet tts around and Goldring make some very fine cartridges. Cd players from Nad, Marantz and Rotel are good as are their amps. Speakers there are many - BW ,Kef, Monitor Audio, Quad, to name but a few.You need to allow for cabling and stands as well so if I were you I would buy one front end for now( cd or tt) amp and spakers and save for the other front end that way you can aportion more of your budget to each item.Most say you should spend about a third on each item say £300 approx and the rest on accessories -stands and cables.But do go and listen ,its fun and a decent dealer will not pressurise you.Good luck! :)
     
  13. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Matt

    Linn Classik - £700 (CD, Amp, Tuner, you can upgrade in future via power amps & digital out DAC wise)
    Project Debut £150
    Project Phono stage £100
    Quad 11s or Castle Richmonds £250
    Speaker stands £50

    I can see what separates will match that below £1000 TBH.
     
  14. Stew

    Stew
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    I use the Goldring 1042 cartridge with my gram amp 2, both sound very good to me and both have very good reputation. check out the tnt audio reviews
     
  15. Zigster

    Zigster
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    I was thinking about suggesting the Linn Classik (got one myself - very happy with it) but I haven't seen it as cheap as £700. Best I've seen it for is £800 in Sevenoaks. Peter Tyson do packages with the Linn Classik plus speakers from as little as £1,000.

    I think Project do a turntable with a phono stage built in for about £250 (can't remember its names - Expression?). Add stands gives a total of about £1,300 so a bit over your budget (sorry :thumbsdow ).
     
  16. Mr Pumpkinhead

    Mr Pumpkinhead
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  17. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    once again I urge to go and listen before buying as there is nothing worse than making a mistake.All we can do is give you our preferences- if you saw my system you'd probably run a mile as I have a valve amp made in the fifties a pair of Kefs made in the sixties a passive preamp that looks as though it came out of a cracker an ancient cassette player and an early nineties cd player. It all takes up a lot of room ,loads of cables and is the complete antithesis of a Linn classik, but I am happy with it.
    Asd I said before what I would do is decide which front end takes precedence and bulid round that. If you want compact system then the Linn system sounds fine at £800 plus speakers.You might prefer to mix and match - Rotel cd and amp go well with Kef speakers. Castle speakers sound nice and look good too as they come in real wood veneers, but Kef do some nice Uni Q speakers which are not room fussy and they may be a good choice.
    As for tt save and buy a decent one such as Rega or one of the better Projects and then add one of their phono stages if necessary.The Goldring 1042 moving magnet would be a good choice.
     
  18. SKA.face

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    I would also consider a all Rega system too.good onboard phono stage,good cd players,good turntable,good choice.
     
  19. Londondecca

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    Utterly agree, it is hard to emphasise enough the importance of a demo before buying audio equipment. I have yet to hear a Linn system which I liked but that does not mean Linn equipment is rubbish, I simply dont like the sound presentation but the only real factor is your ears.
     
  20. matt bellamy

    matt bellamy
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    thanks for all the advice guys, I'm gonna try and get a demo in the next week. Can you fill me on on a few technical terms that I might need to know so I don't look like a moron when talking to the sales guy such as "what exactly is a power amp and why might I need one?".

    I have also been looking at some second hand amps as I will then be able to get a better system for my money. How much is a second hand Linn Classik (AMP, CD and Tuner) worth unboxed but with leads remote and instructions. I've heard Linn is a good reliable make so buying second hand shold be ok, shouldn't it??

    thanks in advance
     
  21. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    i would avoid the classic but about £4-600 £900+ new.............. the classic is aposh one box unit............
     
  22. Zigster

    Zigster
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    I like the Classik and originally demoed it on the advice of Graham's Hi-Fi in Islington (a very good hi-fi shop). I think it's very good value for money as you are getting the same components and build quality as some of the lower end Linn separates (ie, rather than building a low end Linn system, you can get it in one box).

    However, I completely agree with la gran siete and londondecca that you should demo to make sure it's right for you but, if you're after suggestions at that price range, then I suggest the Classik. :smashin: You've got to start somewhere and there's a huge range of kit out there.

    I've just had a look and here's a couple of second-hand Classiks on eBay at the moment at a little less than £400 with a day to go. If you do look at second-hand ones, make sure it has a tuner (I think the early model was just CD and amp).

    Damn my insomnia. :mad:
     
  23. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    I can vouch for Grahams they are indeed a good hi fi shop. Matt dont worry about seeming ignorant just make sure youi find a good hi fi shop. A good dealer will noit patronise you ,talk down to you or try and sell something you dont want. They will be courteous and polite, never press you and as you will probably pay top dollar you have the right to expect top service - they dont offer discounts( other than sales) because of the service they provide.I sometimes find its beneficial to sound clueless because a good salesman always wants to help.In any case with your budget I wouldnt worry about pre/power as the good ones are very expensive- just get a decent integrated. Some of them , such as Cyrus, offer the option of an add on power supply which is an upgrade you could undertake later.Ask the dealer about that.With a cd player you might one day want to buy a separate DAC (digital audio conveter). Again ask dealer.They are there to help. Do comparative listenings to see if any changes are worth while to you or not.As long as the dealer thinks you are bonafide and not just a timewaster he should be prepared to help., so in a sense its better to go in like you know nothing but are keen ./
    On the back of What hi fi you'll find a list of dealers some of them are members of BADA(british audio dealers association) which is an organisatioin devoted to meeting certain standards. You could try one of them.
     
  24. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    One product you might like to consider is the new Denon PMR1055r integrated amp. This product was specifically designed with dvd audio and sacd market in mind because of its greater bandwidth. in other wrods you can enjoy the full benefits of a dvd audio player or super audio cd player( also plays cds). It also boasts 65 watts into 8 ohms and a whopping 120 watts into 4 ohms which means it'll drive difficult loudspeaker loads. Its price from Empire direct is £ 280. I f there is a Hifi bitz near you you could possibly listen to it there ( they sell it for £349). Cant say how good or bad it is , I was just attracted by its specs and price
     
  25. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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