Do expensive HDMI cables make a difference?

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
It's more complex but you are pretty close.
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
DVDs are compressed with MPEG2, MPEG4 came much later.
Indeed - Actually H264/AVC for most broadcast sources (except the crap pictures from Virgin that uses the higher bandwidth available afaik to still use mpeg 2 even for HD).

My neighbour had a Virgin connection. I connected a existing satellite dish to a 4K TV with a freesat tuner, WOW that looks like the demo in the showroom.

How the heck can Virgin justify the crap HD quality they broadcast with mpeg 2 compression for HD channels.

Suggest Dante01, reads and actually understands the DVB-Video standard used for DVB-broadcasting and optical disks. In the UK DVB-HD requires DVB-T2 modulation plus H364/AVC modulation, though some EU countries (and all Full-HD TV's in the UK support full HD using DVB-T modulation (DVB-T2 is backwards compatible with DVB-T2.

Thats why if you connect a digital modulator to the output of a UK Freeview-HD box. You can still view (and record) it's DVB-T HD output on a UK sourced DVB-T HD capable device and record it on a Freeview-HD specced recording device(Most all HD ready TV's) are DVB-T HD capable)
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
I was talking about DVDs only.
As to MPEG2 HD, i believe they do it on the basis that when smaller cable networks were combined some customers were still on MPEG2 HD boxes, I suppose they didn't care enough about quality to do anything about it.
I haven't looked closely at DVB-T (or T2) modulators but you would need one with HDCP on the input.
DVB does not apply to discs, it is for broadcast.
Codecs are common but DVB is about broadcasting.
I spent several years testing that stuff at a semis company and even visited the DTG HQ at Nine Elms.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Right 48GBs Belkin it is then thanks guys.
Have you actually got an HDMI version 2.1 equipped device or devices? You cannot convey more than 18Gbps via any version of HDMI lower than version 2.1 so what use is a cable rated as being more than 18Gbps if not using an HDMI version 2.1 equipped source, AV receiver and display?

You don't need anything more than an 18Gbps cable unless using HDMI version 2.1 equipped devices and if not conveying video that is encoded for use in conjunction with HDMI version 2.1.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Indeed - Actually H264/AVC for most broadcast sources (except the crap pictures from Virgin that uses the higher bandwidth available afaik to still use mpeg 2 even for HD).
Virgin use H264.

The fact of the matter was that prior to this Virgin had the best BBC HD video because they were still getting an MPPEG2 stream supplied to them with less compression than that associated with the H264 feed going to the likes of SKY and Freeview. This poor H264 video was a result of the new compression hardware the BBC had purchased from the states and the higher compression ratios the BBC had decided to use in conjunction with it. THe only difference between MPEG2 and H264 is the file sizes and you don't get better video in association with H264 unless you use a compression ratio that results in the same file size.

Virgin did have to use MPEG2 for longer than other sources because many of the older STBs couldn't handle H264. THis is no longer the case though. They now get the same sh*t BBC HD feeds as everyone else, but the BBC have tried to improve things by using a variable bitrate. THey are still using too much compression though.

As said, H264 is a better compression format, but only if you don't over compress the files. You can get the exact same video quality using MPEG2, but the files are larger. It is technically feasible to get better MPEG2 encoded video than H264 depending upon the compression ratios used.


The new V6 boxes also include an H265 codec.
 
Last edited:

Daft Joe

Active Member
Have you actually got an HDMI version 2.1 equipped device or devices? You cannot convey more than 18Gbps via any version of HDMI lower than version 2.1 so what use is a cable rated as being more than 18Gbps if not using an HDMI version 2.1 equipped source, AV receiver and display?

You don't need anything more than an 18Gbps cable unless using HDMI version 2.1 equipped devices and if not conveying video that is encoded for use in conjunction with HDMI version 2.1.
I will probably end up with HDMI 2.1 when I upgrade the graphics card I'm waiting to see what the Intel graphics card is like or what Nvidia bring out after the 2070.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I will probably end up with HDMI 2.1 when I upgrade the graphics card I'm waiting to see what the Intel graphics card is like or what Nvidia bring out after the 2070.
I'd wait until you need one before buying a 48Gbps cable. The Belkin cable isn't even certified and HDMI org do have a certification program for the new generation of cables needed for HDMI version 2.1

The Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable ensures ultra high-bandwidth dependent features are delivered including uncompressed 8K video with HDR. It supports up to 48Gbps bandwidth and features exceptionally low EMI (electro-magnetic interference) which reduces interference with nearby wireless devices. The cable also supports the HDMI Ethernet channel. It is backwards compatible and can be used with the existing installed base of HDMI devices.
HDMI :: Manufacturer :: HDMI 1.4 :: Finding the Right Cable


Also note that as I said, the additional bandwidth assciated with these cables cannot be utilised with anything less than an HDMI 2.1 interface and chipset. You'd still only get 18Gbps if using one with an HDMI version 2.0 equipped device. 18Gbps is the limit of HDMI version 2.0's capabilities.
 
Last edited:

dante01

Distinguished Member
Suggest Dante01, reads and actually understands the DVB-Video standard used for DVB-broadcasting and optical disks. In the UK DVB-HD requires DVB-T2 modulation plus H364/AVC modulation, though some EU countries (and all Full-HD TV's in the UK support full HD using DVB-T modulation (DVB-T2 is backwards compatible with DVB-T2.

Thats why if you connect a digital modulator to the output of a UK Freeview-HD box. You can still view (and record) it's DVB-T HD output on a UK sourced DVB-T HD capable device and record it on a Freeview-HD specced recording device(Most all HD ready TV's) are DVB-T HD capable)
Thanks for that, but what has this to do with what everyone else was discussing and why do I need to read up on it? Have you entered me in a quiz somewhere without informing me? What have DVB tuners got to do with HDMI cables or the compression and associated codecs used in association with disc based media?
 

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
Thanks for that, but what has this to do with what everyone else was discussing and why do I need to read up on it? Have you entered me in a quiz somewhere without informing me? What have DVB tuners got to do with HDMI cables or the compression and associated codecs used in association with disc based media?
You stated DVD used H264 which is totally incorrect. The standard that specifies what video content can be burnt to a Digital Versatile disk (DVD) is defined in the DVB-Video standards.

UK Digital SD TV can be burnt to DVD because the basic mpeg2 720 x 576 25 fps transmission is a supported DVB-Video standard,

UK HD Satellite TV can be burnt to a DVD disk but only in AVCHD format - more later. AVCHD supports H264/AVC 1080i at 1920 x 1080 25fps. A standard blank DVD has enough capacity to hold about 60 mins of BBC-HD. Freeview-HD requires a later AVCHD Progressive format as much of the content is 1080p25.

Had you understood any of this you wouldn't have posted a totally incorrect statement.

DVB-Video standards never has specified H264 as a supported compression codec. only mpeg1 and mpeg 2 is supported for burning to DVD blanks. . H264 is supported on DVD-blanks when the AVCHD format is used. AVCHD is a joint effort by Sony and Panasonic which is designed to allow HD content to be burnt to a DVD (Digital Versatile Disk) with duration related to disk capacity and the bitrate used. A Blu-ray drive (or a PC with a DVD drive is required to playback AVCHD. Bitrates in line with blu-ray levels will not work because the max data transfer speed of a DVD isn't fast enough.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You stated DVD used H264 which is totally incorrect.
By the way, the post I made you refer to was to highlight that video compression is used and no, Virgin Media aren't limited to MPEG2 as you stated and do use H264. Maybe do some reasearch of your own prior to telling other people to do so.

You cannot even get the mistake I made correct. No, I'd didn't state that DVD uses H264, I stated that it used MPEG4. The error was actually typographical (more a case of my typing it before avtually thinking about it) and I thanked Trollslayer for correcting me. No one asked for a lecture on DVB-T.
 
Last edited:

grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
By the way, the post I made you refer to was to highlight that video compression is used and no, Virgin Media aren't limited to MPEG2 as you stated and do use H264. Maybe do some reasearch of your own prior to telling other people to do so.

You cannot even get the mistake I made correct. No, I'd didn't state that DVD uses H264, I stated that it used MPEG4. The error was actually typographical (more a case of my typing it before avtually thinking about it) and I thanked Trollslayer for correcting me. No one asked for a lecture on DVB-T.
I think you don't know the difference between a video container and a compression codec.

.mp4 is a container which may or may not have video compressed using mpeg 4. Mpeg2 is allowable in a .mp4 container. AVC is simply the most advanced variant of mpeg 4. I havent used virgin media for years but it certainly used mpeg2. I take it H264 is a recent addition. Next doors 4K TV looks sh*t on Virgin till she ditched it. The Freesat tune is vastly superior.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think you don't know the difference between a video container and a compression codec.
What you think is one thing and what I know is another. You are welcome to your opinion on me, but this thread isn't the place to express it or make it known. According to posts you've made within the Virgin Media forum, you've never actually been a Virgin Media customer. I'm unsure as to why you are using this thread to discuss Virgin Media or DVB=T? Is it because you think your opinion of Virgin bothers me? As said, you are welcome to your opinion, but this thread isn't the place to express it.

Nobody was discussing any of the topics you've raised and none of them appear to be relevant to this thread. Yes, I made a mistake which was corrected in a polite way by another member prior to you barging in and grasping at anything you can think of to make a non existent point while being antagonistic.

Other than this, I don't really care what you think.
 
Last edited:

Otto Pylot

Active Member
Right 48GBs Belkin it is then thanks guys.
Belkin's 48Gbps cable is all smoke and mirrors. There are no consumer devices commercially available that can push 48Gbps, let alone fully compliant HDMI 2.1. Belkin has not produced any documentation to support those claims other than "internal testing" so it's all marketing b.s. If your 4k HDR cable run is under 20', then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable is the best you can do for now. Over 20', the recommendation is a hybrid fiber cable. If you're trying to "future proof" your cabling then the ONLY way to do that is to run conduit if your cabling is in-wall. If your cabling is easily accessible, then you should have no problem swapping it out once fully compliant HDMI 2.1 devices and source material is available.
 

brad123

Well-known Member
Hi all, I have A 4K Panasonic player, 4k projector and 4k amp, can anyone recommend me a hdmi cable at reasonable cost that will allow me to get most from these please? Ideally under a tenner the better, max length is 2 metres.

Thanks
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you already have a cable/cables at the lengths required and the system is working stick with them - at 2m the only time it would be worth changing cables is if you are having issues.

Joe
 

Otto Pylot

Active Member
At 2m (6') just get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label. That's about the best you can currently do. They are not specific to one mfr so you can shop around and get a good deal. 2m shouldn't be very expensive. Keep in mind that the cable is just a data pipe. It can not alter or modify the signal that is being sent though it, regardless of what some cable mfrs will say in their marketing.
 

johnvnross

Active Member
I have a Murideo SIX G and a SIX A.
Hi all, I have A 4K Panasonic player, 4k projector and 4k amp, can anyone recommend me a hdmi cable at reasonable cost that will allow me to get most from these please? Ideally under a tenner the better, max length is 2 metres.

Thanks
Something from
HDMI Cable from Blue Jeans Cable
would do it.
 

Otto Pylot

Active Member
The cable linked above is just a standard high speed hdmi cable. It is not a Premium High Speed HDMI cable so it is not certified (by HDMI.org) to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. Ethernet means nothing because there are no consumer devices that ever took advantage of that specification. The ethernet channel will be used for eARC, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The cable linked above is just a standard high speed hdmi cable. It is not a Premium High Speed HDMI cable so it is not certified (by HDMI.org) to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. Ethernet means nothing because there are no consumer devices that ever took advantage of that specification. The ethernet channel will be used for eARC, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification.
It should be stressed that there's no requirement to certify cables with HDMI org and the cable you are refering to is one of the most affordable, yet reliable cables you can buy that isn't certified. Buying a certified cable will not nescessarilly get you anything better and will more than likely cost you more money.

It is true that the ethernet channel abilities of HDMI haven't been exploited by hardware manufacturers, but compliant cables do perform better in situations whereby ARC is used. I do believe that the ethernet channel is used in conjunction with ARC and not just eARC. HEC and ARC basically use the same 2 wires. HEC is the HDMI Ethernet Channel, and enables HDMI connected devices to access the internet without each of them requiring separate Ethernet cables. Because HEC and ARC use the same two wires inside the HDMI cable, the names are sometimes combined to HEAC - HDMI Ethernet Audio Channe.
 

Otto Pylot

Active Member
It should be stressed that there's no requirement to certify cables with HDMI org and the cable you are refering to is one of the most affordable, yet reliable cables you can buy that isn't certified. Buying a certified cable will not nescessarilly get you anything better and will more than likely cost you more money.

It is true that the ethernet channel abilities of HDMI haven't been exploited by hardware manufacturers, but compliant cables do perform better in situations whereby ARC is used. I do believe that the ethernet channel is used in conjunction with ARC and not just eARC. HEC and ARC basically use the same 2 wires. HEC is the HDMI Ethernet Channel, and enables HDMI connected devices to access the internet without each of them requiring separate Ethernet cables. Because HEC and ARC use the same two wires inside the HDMI cable, the names are sometimes combined to HEAC - HDMI Ethernet Audio Channe.
While it is true that an ATC certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work in all situations, it is a guarantee that the cable was tested and certified by HMDI.org (the folks who got us in this HDMI mess in the first place) to meet ALL of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications, and is not just marketing fluff and b.s. Premium High Speed cables are relatively cheap so it would be in ones best interest to use them. Just one less thing to trouble-shoot.

The unused ethernet channel was meant to be used for internet connectivity so a single cable could be used to do it all. That never panned out for the mfrs. Whether the enet channel was used for ARC or not is debatable. eARC is different in that the channel needs to not only communicate with the source it also has to be able to return HD Audio, which is more difficult. It is also dependent on how the HDMI chipsets are designed.
 

toon master

Active Member
I presume it’s safe to presume (or naive) that hdmi cables you get with your Xbox, ps4 or Switch are appropriate?!
 

Similar threads

Trending threads

Latest threads

Top Bottom