Do cinemas broadcast in hd?

[djcla]

just wondering because i saw a 1080P demo via projector at the bristol show and it blew me away.

 

[Starburst]

Most cinemas have 35mm film (IMAX uses 70mm) as source material which if digitised can offer a far greater resolution than the current HD spec allows for and there are the new breed of digital projection theatres but I do not know exactly what resolution the project at.

 

[stefmcd]

Pretty sure film is something like 4000x4000 resolution or thereabouts - so cinema pees all over hd.
An hd quality pic blown upto cinema screen size would look quite ropey.

 

[dllord]

Pretty sure film is something like 4000x4000 resolution or thereabouts - so cinema pees all over hd.
An hd quality pic blown upto cinema screen size would look quite ropey.

Very true!

 

[Mr.D]

Its not the res its the colour space that makes the difference. if they had given us 720p with a more film like intensity range and gammut most people would say its better or as good as film . As it currently stands hidef is unfortunately just "big video" ie: more pixels , little difference in intensity and colour capability than sd video. Shame really they could have given us something really special.

 

[MAW]

Shame really they could have given us something really special.

That's for the next upgrade, Keith!

 

[Stephen Neal]

Its not the res its the colour space that makes the difference. if they had given us 720p with a more film like intensity range and gammut most people would say its better or as good as film . As it currently stands hidef is unfortunately just "big video" ie: more pixels , little difference in intensity and colour capability than sd video. Shame really they could have given us something really special.

Yep - in particular the 8 bit limit for both MPEG2 transmission and some HDMI connections (in reality most HDMI connections) - is a really shortsighted move IMHO. Broadcasters quickly realised the limitations of 8 bit - and manufacturers came up with workarounds to minimise the visibility of the artefacts this can cause (Quantel Dynamic Rounding for example) - but 10, or even 12 bit, as an option, would have been great for high quality stuff.

(I believe BluRay optionally supports 10 and 12 bit video - does HD-DVD?)

I know that other systems could be introduced to improve the quality of HD video when compared with film (such as log representation, different colour primaries etc.) but greater bit depth does seem an important one.

 

[pietnoeck]

Here in Belgium, all cinema's from the Kinepolis group have digital projection screens.
Projectors are made by Barco, also a Belgian company. They use DLPtechnology.

And the picture-quality is breathtaking !
Another advantage is that there is no picture-degradation after multiple screenings.

 

[Mr.D]

To be honest they could have stuck with 8bit as lonjg as they used it smartly . 8bit log encoding with a lut aplied in the display would get you very close to film colourspace. Lose some of the headroom in the whites as you only need to represent a print intensity range and it would be even easier.

Its a shame , we'll be stuck with big video for the next 50 years just because they were more interested in number of pixels than shades of grey.

 

[Mr.D]

Here in Belgium, all cinema's from the Kinepolis group have digital projection screens.
Projectors are made by Barco, also a Belgian company. They use DLPtechnology.

And the picture-quality is breathtaking !
Another advantage is that there is no picture-degradation after multiple screenings.

They don't use 8bit hidef video though . The material is going to adhere to the d-cinema spec more along the lines of what we would have wanted in an ideal world as a domestic format.

 

[Member 55145]

They don't use 8bit hidef video though . The material is going to adhere to the d-cinema spec more along the lines of what we would have wanted in an ideal world as a domestic format.

they wouldnt want to do that tho cause then no-one would go to the cinema

 

[Mr.D]

The vast majority won't go to the cinema anyway with vanilla 8bit hidef available.
They should have made it a little better.

I think we've got poor quality digital panels to blame for this as they can't even resolve a video intensity range correctly let alone something along the line of a film colourspace. But its cheap as chips to throw a lot of pixels in and impress the punters with big numbers.

 

[wandersen]

Cinemas are going for digital projection technology more because of the huge amount of money it saves in film distribution costs. Those 70mm prints are mighty expensive.

 

[Mr.D]

70mm is somewhat unusual. Most release prints are 35mm but your point is correct.
Digital projection is barely capable of matching a 35mm release print in all aspects of image criteria . Its not even close to 70mm.

 

[daKlone]

Cinemas are going for digital projection technology more because of the huge amount of money it saves in film distribution costs. Those 70mm prints are mighty expensive.

Yeah, I'm sure I read somewhere that a reel of 35mm film is something like £30,000 - does anyone know for sure?

 

[Mr.D]

Its not quite that bad but it runs to a couple of thousand.

 

[Stephen Neal]

Cinemas are going for digital projection technology more because of the huge amount of money it saves in film distribution costs. Those 70mm prints are mighty expensive.

Yep - even 35mm release prints are expensive. AIUI one reason films opened in the US, then elsewhere around the world, is that the prints initially used for cinemas in the US were then sent to other countries, once the number of US screens showing the film reduced. If you opened everywhere simultaneously you needed more prints, and thus increased your distribution costs.

The advantages of digital projection are that you can distribute digital copies (either by broadcast or on digital media) more cheaply. Thus your costs for projection are reduced compared to 35mm, and it also allows more niche films to be released more widely without costing their distributors a huge amount of money producing lots of release prints.

This is why the UK is introducing digital projection funding I believe - to allow wider release of smaller films. (That could then be shown more cost-effectively to a wider audience - even if off-peak)

The advantage of digital projection - in quality terms - is that it is more consistent and you don't suffer from worn-out prints, nor does it suffer from weave etc. The disadvantage is that it doesn't match a pristine new release print in quality terms.

 

[Mr.D]

We regularly use a Barco DP100 ( 2048x1536 I think) to view 2k film colourspace material and I have to say I think its as good as pristine 35mm projection in most areas.

However this is uncompressed 10bit log cineon frames as opposed to the D-cinema standard and the screen we use is probably about 15foot diagonal and we are setup to use as much of the light output as possible .

Same machine on a 30foot across screen might not be quite so impressive ( and the DP100 is considered one of the best digital projectors ....not every D-cinema installation uses a projector as good as this).

 

[Fly_Boy_Rez]

Ahhh... a digital cinema screen... this I would like to see... in fact here are a few more things I'd like to see a the cinema:-

1. Comfortable seats... with decent back and head support
2. Films that are in focus... why is this so difficult?
3. A digital film projection system... one that doesn't show up all the crud on the reels.

Trouble is... I have no way of telling where a digital cinema is likely to be? Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong... I love my new Pioneer but you just can't beat a really big screen!

Cheers!

Fly_Boy_Rez

 

[Stephen Neal]

Ahhh... a digital cinema screen... this I would like to see... in fact here are a few more things I'd like to see a the cinema:-

1. Comfortable seats... with decent back and head support
2. Films that are in focus... why is this so difficult?
3. A digital film projection system... one that doesn't show up all the crud on the reels.

Trouble is... I have no way of telling where a digital cinema is likely to be? Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong... I love my new Pioneer but you just can't beat a really big screen!

Cheers!

Fly_Boy_Rez

One of the Leicester Square cinemas has shown stuff digitally (Think it was The Empire, though may have been The Odeon). I saw one of the Toy Stories there projected using a digital projector. The most noticable thing was the absence of film weave, scratch and sparkle, though this was a CGI animation - so hadn't originated on film.