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Do amps have a running in time?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by dAvE6, Jul 13, 2002.

  1. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    Ever since i got my Denon 3802 on tuesday, it's been rather dissapointing with my B&W speakers. Music is shrill. movies have detail but lack warmth in the speach and music. In fact, i would say my previous amp-- The Sony DB1070 was better. The only great thing about the Denon is pro-logic 2.

    But perhaps it's due to it not running in yet? I was not aware that they needed running in though. Is it true?

    Well if it's not going to improve SIGNIFICANTLY, then i'm chucking everything in. I simply can't afford to invest in a much better amp. So if anyone is interested in buying any of my kit then let me know at

    mutzgoatz@hotmail.com


    Kit includes:

    B&W 603 S3 speakers, 3 months old. Perfect cond.
    REL Q200 subwoofer, 5 months old. Perfect cond.
    B&W LCR600 S3 centre speaker, 3 months old. Perfect cond.
    B&W 601 S3 3 months old. perfect condition.
    B&W 601 S2 7 months old. Perfect condition.
     
  2. Guest

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    Sorry to hear of your immediate dissatisfaction with the new baby. Can't advise specifically here but hopefully you'll find the following ramble of some use.

    I went from Sony (930) to Denon (A1D) and for me the difference -and I've mentioned this previously to you - was that the Sony had a larger-than-life/"large print" type of presentation. There was just a sense of things generally being 'big', (music vocals, speech particularly). The Sony was always a great listen though. But somehow, the monster Denon sounded lacklustre in comparison. I soon realised what was happening: the audio wasn't 'placed' where I was used to hearing it. Setting a 'proper' distance between the L/R main speakers focused the sound beautifully behind the speakerplane. The Sony tended to place audio much more 'in front' and hence sounded more 'in your face' but the Denon is quality and it paid to treat it accordingly. ;)

    I thought the A1D sounded slightly thin and shrill when I first heard it. In retrospect, this was probably caused by two things:

    1. The upper bass 'bloominess' of the Sony which my ears were missing.

    2. Improper speaker placement leading to poor stereo imagery. (Perhaps Sonys are more forgiving ?)

    Conclusion:

    1. It's the auditory part of your brain which might need running in, not the amp. Seriously.

    2. Don't do the main-speakers-four-feet-apart-and-a-centre-speaker-in-the-middle nonsense. Just don't do it anyway but deffo not with a class amp. By all accounts the 3802 should be great with your B&Ws - unless everyone else has got cloth for eardrums 'cept you ;)

    HTH (?),

    Mike.

    P.S. What the @*£$%&! happened to your A1D ??? Trade-in for the 3802 ???

    P.P.S. There are very few "SIGNIFICANT" upgrades in this world, it's all small increments; anything claimed above that is psychology.
     
  3. rosemanbridge

    rosemanbridge
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    Dave, I'm currently running in a Meridian 586 processor and Roxan 5.1 Amp, you need to give it AT LEAST 200 hours to settle in, leave it powered up or in standby so it stays warm and is at the optimum temperature when you use it, after a few weeks you will definatley notice a difference. Good Luck.
     
  4. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    But what KIND of difference? At the moment it's so harsh, with little depth and next to no mid-bass. And mid-bass is essential for a 'warm' sound.


    P.S. Flimber, the A1D did arive but the centre and subwoofer channels didn't work. It got lost in the post before that too. So i'm guessing parcel force dropped it. I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle, so got a refund and then opted for a new 3802. Shame.
     
  5. Lowrider

    Lowrider
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    The harsheness might go away, but nothing else should change much. Did you change anything else... :confused:
     
  6. CounterWhine

    CounterWhine
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    To be honest, I've not been aware of any of my equipment changing during the running in period except for 'speakers and interconnects.

    I'm not saying that running in equipment is a nonsense, just that the changes are too subtle for me to notice.

    Maybe that'll change when I upgrade my amp.

    D.
     
  7. lynx

    lynx
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    For what it's worth you have my sympathies. I happen to like the presentation of Sony amps,and as you've discovered, others sound, well, different.I doubt whether running for some time will bring the wholesale changes you are looking for so i'd bite the bullit and see if you can get a refund and revert to your Sony. Would this be possible?
     
  8. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    Not really lynx. It's either keep it and make the best of it, or get a refund and then...well pack everything in. It simply hasn't been worth all the money just to get a marginal improvement. It's now got to the point, that it's impractical to keep it all. I'm a student, so i can't easily transport it all to uni and back. My room here at home is completely dominated by it all as well. If i found my setup entirely convincing, then there would be more of an argument to keep it. But as it stands, i should have never got involved and just made do with a decent hi-fi system(small) from dixons linked by phono cables to a mid-range 28" widescreen tv. I've wasted thousands of pounds...

    When i first started i never intended to have all this. My requirment was to add surround sound to my ps2. I started with a home cinema in a box job. Of course this cruelly dissapointed me. I then upgraded more and more until my expectations were met. And they never have been relative to my expenditure.

    I'll still keep the TV, dvd player and 1 set of bookshelf speakers--which can be linked to a Denon mini hi fi. I'll be selling the rest on ebay. B&W speakers get respectable prices on there. The other day i saw a pair of 2nd hand 601's fetch £185. But like i said, if anyone is interested in any of my stuff then e mail me.
     
  9. juboy

    juboy
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    Dave6: It's a real shame you've been so disappointed with the system you've arrived at after spending so much money.

    I know what you mean to some degree, not so much with the AV side of things but certainly with Hi Fi. I've spent numerous thousands of pounds trying to acheive a two channel sound I'm always impressed with and have since thought hard and long and accepted that a 'good' sound is all I will ever acheive and to be content with that.

    It is even more galling when you turn up at friend or family member's house and you hear a system that's cost them say £600 total and you're thinking 'Jesus, that sounds SO much better then mine!'.

    If it helps any, I went from a Sony 930 AV amp to a Denon 2802 and much prefer the Denon, far more clarity, speed and better steering. I would definitely suggest you give the amp around 100 hours running in time (leaving Sky radio on - especially the dance channel - through PLII is as good a method as any for doing this quickly). I'd also leave the amp on at all times and maybe consider some 'warmer' speaker cable, although again, don't throw good money after bad if you really feel the amp can't be improved on.

    There is also the possibility that, in the worst case, the amp might actually be faulty.
     
  10. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Hi David

    If you can stomach one more try, get yourself an Arcam AVR200. I demoed the Arcam with the 3802 and was shocked at how much better the Arcam sounded in stereo and with DVD's. Full, warm (but not cuddly) sound with tons of clarity and drive. The Denon just sounded flat and boring - but not as crappy as my Yam DSP620. I demoed with B&W 602S3's and they sounded fabulous. You seem to only need/have space for 5.1 surround sound, not 7 speakers and AVR200 has PLII as well. Frankly I've tried several top-end Denon amps including A1D and wasn't overly impressed. Running in doesn't help either.

    I'd hate anyone to give up such great speakers and walk away from potentially great sound to a "Dixons mini system". Give your system one more try, it still has loads to give. Incidently, what sources are you using?
     
  11. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    You sum up my impression of the sound prefectly. ''flat and boring''. There's just something missing from the voices on movies and especially the singing on music.

    What i have been thinking about doing is keeping the 603 speakers and just getting a stereo amp. Then (hopefully?) music would be much better, and i could still listen to analogue tv, games and movies in decent stereo, without having it dominating the space. However, i will also look into the arcam avr200
     
  12. gaz242

    gaz242
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    I have a two week old 3802 just upgraded from a sony830 the difference i noticed was incdredible the sony like someone mentioned was just to full on in yer face with the denon the the sound seperation is is stunning it's placed were it should be.
    The only thing with the denon it's not very partner friendly my girlfriend is still having trouble switching it on. :)
     
  13. Torque

    Torque
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    Flimber, could you expand on this a bit for us newcomers, please?
     
  14. Dom H

    Dom H
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    I went from the sony 930 to the 3802 and the difference was huge. Lots more detail, better pace.

    tbh something must be wrong, maybe you have v bad room accoustics because my 602's with the 3802 sounds fantastic, so should yours.
     
  15. Guest

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    PRIMER: Stereo hi-fi speakers sound best 8-9 feet apart with you seated directly in the middle (8-9 feet away). If you listen to a stereo signal and it appears to be coming from the speakers, you 'aint positioned 'em right. It should appear to emanate from the space inbetween them.

    For A/V use same applies, only more complex. Still shouldn't have your main pair less than about 8ft apart though, I reckons.

    Mike.
     
  16. juboy

    juboy
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  17. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    I bought a NAD C370 and a marantz C6000 CD player, and i couldn't be happier with the performance. Stereo performance is leaaagues above that of the 3802. Decoding from TV/games etc is just as good as the 3802 but with more gusto to it. The only thing i'm missing out on is surround sound from movies, but considering they are my lowest priority after music-games-TV, it's no big loss. I also get some money back from selling my spare speakers AND have a far less cluttered room. I guess i just overestimated the potential of A/V amps in doing music and giving TV/games proper justice. So it shows i WAS right about the musical ability of the 3802. Flat. Boring. lack of much dynamic and very little thrust. Just my opinion mind...
     
  18. Torque

    Torque
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    Cheers juboy, those are really useful links.
     
  19. Lowrider

    Lowrider
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    I use the setup recomended by Bryston, the same the recording engineers use, as they mention, and it works much better than the Dolby recomendations...
     

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