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DLP Rear Pro Vs LCD panel (46WM48 Vs 32WL48)

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by cerebros, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Can anyone enlighten me as to the pro's & con's of DLP rear pro versus a flat panel LCD screen?

    Reason I ask is that I'm currently leaning towards Toshiba's 32WL48 LCD TV as I definitely want a TV with HDMI so I'm reasonably future proofed for HDTV (I'm not one of these people who change TV every year or two, whatever I buy is going to be in use by me for a minimum of 5 years). However, after spying a thread talking about Toshiba's 46WM48, and seeing that prices are only about a couple of hundred more than the LCD, I'm pondering going the bigger screen route.

    However, as I haven't been looking towards DLP rear pro in the past, I'm not too familiar with any issues around it (apart from the "rainbows" effect which is pretty much global knowledge).

    So I'm hoping people can give me some pointers about DLP in general and the 46WM48 in particular, namely:

    1. Do DLP RP sets have problems with geometry? If so, are these easily correctible, or are you into the endless spiral of trying to get a perfect set?
    2. What are the black levels like? I know LCD tends to go to dark grey rather than something that looks black, but does DLP suffer the same issue?
    3. Do the sets work well in normal room lighting, or do you have to have fairly low light levels for decent results?
    4. For those of you with the 46WM48, how far away are you viewing from? One of the issues that's put me off looking at rear pro before is that I'm only going to be about 3m from the screen, and while 46" would be wonderful for film, it might be a bit much for normal TV
    5. Do DLP RP sets have any issues when used with consoles? Wouldn't want big screen multiplayer Top Spin fun ruined by glitches...

    thanks
     
  2. AV Junky

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    DLP = greater contrast ratio, bigger screen size, no refresh-rate issue (leading to motion blur on LCDs).

    LCDs are getting better all the time, and eventually may be the number one choice for all in the future. At the moment though, they're not there yet.
     
  3. Hovenator

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    :rolleyes:
    Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.
    DLP pictures are fantastic... and IMHO, in comparison, LCD pictures can't really compare to a DLP in terms of overall viewing quality (especially when watchin plain old tv).

    But DLPs, even the "slim" ones, are HUGE. After having used plasmas/lcds for
    the past few years, I've found it awfully hard to go back... I'm just so used to A) how thin they are and how easy they are to move/place, etc)
    and B) man, they just look sweet. Haahaha. I would have to say that I'd be lying if I didn't say the "WOW" factor still gets me (and my mates, hahaha!) all these years later.

    So go with what your heart tells you... it's different for everyone. Some people think panels look cool. Some people think big behemoths look the business (I'm being serious). When you start comparing features, it gets too waaaaaaay too scientific. You either want one type or the other.

    Given that they both give pictures that are in the "good" range (one may be better than the other, but the LCD is still great)...

    ...which one simply tickles your fancy more, deep down in your heart?

    ;)
     
  4. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Well image lag is supposed to be all but non-existant wth the 32WL48 (from the threads I've been reading the majority of posters say they have seen no lag, with only a couple saying they've seen a very small amount of lag on rare occasions).

    As with contrast, I know that rear pro specs claim quite high contrast ratios, but I also know that across all the display types where contrast is such an issue (plasma / LCD / LCD rear pro / LCD front pro / DLP rear pro / DLP front pro etc.) that differnet companies measure contrast in a different way.

    What about geometry? One of the reasons why I'm still looking for a new TV is that the last one i bought one, 3 of the set had very annoying geometry problems that couldn't be cured via the service menu (the 4th was spot on but expired not long after receiving it). I think I could live with the lack of absolute black on LCD flat panel in exchange for perfect geometry. I'm not sure about DLP RP geometry - should this be spot on due to the nature of the technology, or is it susceptible to problems?
     
  5. Hovenator

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    Cerebros,

    I'll make this reply short because mine are usually so long winded -
    Most DLP sets aren't prone or susceptible to geometry issues. But, keep this in mind- DLP technology is a lot more prone to being damaged through transit, movement, etc... there are more "moving parts" (well, not technically moving but you know the argument I'm making... it's like hard drives vs. solid state) that could be damaged. With DLP you are relying on precisely places lenses and projectors, as opposed to a panel that just reacts to electrical currents.

    Hope that helps a little. :smoke:
     
  6. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Brevity appreciated ;)

    So just how sensitive are they? I mean, are we still talking having to drop them before you start worrying, or are the usual minor bumps you always get when moving anything big about cause for concern?
     
  7. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Well in the end I've decided to sit out the current round of products of either variety. As Sky have said they're going to be supporting 1080i as well as 720p, as well as the announcement that a lot of content will only be viewable by people connecting their HD-STB to their display by HDCP compliant means, I think I'll wait a year and see what's on the market then (hopefully sets and source devices with more than 1 HDMI / DVI-HDCP socket, and lots of amps with HDMI swithing).

    For the time being I've just bought myself a cheap 28" CRT. Which to be honest, now I've got a large TV in the lounge (well, much larger than the previous 14" TV/video combi anyway) has pretty much decided me that for my home I probably won't be needing a display much larger than 30"-32" visible diagonal, so DLP rear pro isn't going to be the way i go (barring a lottery win)
     
  8. Hovenator

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    Cerebros,
    I think you've made a good call. DLP's main drawback is that it's so damn big. Even though depth is less than a crt the overall size is ridiculously imposing.
    What tv did you buy, by the way?
     
  9. welsh113

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    This of course is in your opinion :smoke:
     
  10. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    Of course the DLP is more imposing, a 46" tv has more than twice the area of a 32" tv. If you're talking like-for-like, yes I agree RPTVs are thicker...but the impact of that depends entirely on where you put the telly. You can't wall mount an rptv (not without a handy builder anyway!) but if you're putting the telly on a stand the rptv isn't overly imposing.

    I admit bias as I've got an older rptv (51wh36) - and it dominates the room, but mostly because it *is* huge. The newer DLP types can stand on a normal TV stand and are much thinner so would be much easier to blend in.

    I don't think you can beat rptv's in bang-for-buck terms, for size and picture quality they're excellent. Not quite so much compromise as a front-projection setup but they are a bit less "lifestyle" than flatscreens.

    My advice would be unless the room is tiny go for an rptv - but wait for the Sky HDTV dust to settle first.

    You should be fine with a 3m viewing distance on a 46" telly, particularly with progressive scan. The major problem if you've not had a TV this big before is accepting the artifacts you get from a broadcast source. You will not be able to hide them on a good quality large screen and they do take getting used to. Mostly it depends on which channels you watch, but you do get used to playing bandwidth roulette!
     
  11. Hovenator

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    Yes, yes this is just my opinion! :D

    ...but I think most people will agree!

    :zonked:
     
  12. welsh113

    welsh113
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    only people who wont or dont want a big screen tv so try to justify the reason why they bought a 32 inch screen :laugh:
    getting dirty now lol
    no i agree as a owner of both a 42 inch plasma (hitachi) and a toshiba dlp i can say the toshiba is bigger but at the same time does not actually look bigger for bulk i think as do my friends and family that the toshiba looks the bees knees (the hitachi does too they are all jealous lol ).
    Just think to say that dlp sets are ugly and huge is against what the average person thinks as in the average person not a lcd owner or a plasma owner
     
  13. Billy Hunt

    Billy Hunt
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    I've been wondering exactly how a DLP would fair against my current 36inch widescreen CRT, I'm sure a 46inch or even a 50 inch would actually sit further back in the corner of the room than my current TV as it's very deep and is still quite wide at the rear.
    Of course if I was any good at math I could work it out :cool:
     
  14. cerebros

    cerebros
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    I got a Toshiba 28ZH46 from Argos at manager's clearance price of £225. Picture adjustment options are a bit limited compared to the JVC HV32P37 I had earlier in the year, but on the other hand, the picture hasn't got much seriously wrong with it for the price.

    Yes there are some minor geometry issues - but unlike the problems I had with the HV32P37, they're not off-putting to my eyes (whereas the upward picture bend I got with 3 of the JVC's drove me to distraction). 4:3 image geometry is actually pretty damn good too, with only some slight inward bend at the image corners - it's a lot better than i was ever able to manage on the HV32P37.

    (On the other hand I really miss the DIST and Super ImagePure processing from the JVC which really helped enhance the picture quality, especially on good quality sources)

    There's also colour stain on the top left of the screen, but that's only noticeable on white backgrounds and I have to look for it to find it (since it's not in an area you'd naturally look to).

    Oh, and the set has the buzzing noise like the last Toshiba CRT I had, but I think that's just from the 100Hz processing.

    Despite those foibles its tolerable for the money - if i'd spent about £100 more I'd probably have taken it straight back. Can certainly put up with it for about a year while I wait for the LCD TV market to mature a bit more
     
  15. cerebros

    cerebros
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    I think I'm going to stick with 26-32" when I finally go flat panel. Considering the room layout I've got, where the TV sort of has to go in front of the windows, anything as tall as an RPTV would really blot out the sun - especially as I think I'm going to be mounting this current and future TV on top of two stacked Oppli TV benches as those will hold all the AV gear I've got & will be getting. An RPTV would be just too tall.

    Plus the shear screen size of an RPTV would be too much. Great for films, but my viewing is probably 35% films, 65% TV, so in those terms, an RPTV wouldn't make sense for me.
     
  16. Mango Bob

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    We probably watch about 75% TV and I find it pretty good...plus the 25% movies becomes a lot more important when it's that big - it looks gorgeous with DVD quality sources :thumbsup: .

    I've got mine under the front window and it's not ideal - looks like I have an arcade machine from the outside :D . I'll eventually get round to putting some nets up (manly ones of course!)

    Bear in mind the current RPTVs are smaller and thus less obtrusive...but I still think you're best to wait for any big TV purchase at the moment until the HDTV arguments are over.
     
  17. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Well that's why I've gone for the 28" for the time being. I'm expecting that by the time I come to buy what will be the long term TV, sets will have native 1920x1080 resolution and mutiple HDMI and DVI-HDCP sockets, plus be able to accept PC input at HDTV resolutions
     
  18. Neelix

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    I don't see any imperative reason to wait any longer to purchase a HD digital display. From the research I have done it would seem that the standards for HDTV are pretty much in place from the worldwide compression technology used (MPEG-2 with an an advanced MPEG-4 in the future). Furthermore, HDMI appears to be universally accepted as the preferred connection given it's very high bandwith capability, HDCP compliance, combined audio/visual, DVI compatible with simple adapter. This site provides good information on the way Europe is heading HDTV Forum . I think as long as you ensure your display has the following connections then you really can't go far wrong for SD or HD:

    HDMI
    DVI
    PC RGB
    Scart RGB
    S-Video
    Component
    Composite
    RF

    To my mind I think the future is now, HDTV is broadcasting in Europe and will soon be available from Sky. HD-DVDs (or Blu-Ray) are gearing up meaning we will soon be able to take advantage of fantastic pure digital 1080. Plus SD viewing is so much better as long as you have a good signal :)
     
  19. Hovenator

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    Hey everyone -

    I don't know if you realise this, but you can already get HD tv in the UK...
    Some of you may have heard of Euro 1080, which is now called HD-1.
    It's an HD broadcasting channel... the programming currently is... well... so so! But it's still an amazing thing to behold. I've seen it at a friend's, I'm planning on getting it for my own home.
    You can read about HD-1 here:

    http://www.hd-1.tv/

    It's a pre-paid service, and you can get the necessary equipment here:
    http://www.eurosat.uk.com/catalog/p...d=173&osCsid=96237be24f11126eaf70813cffe818c5

    or here:
    http://www.quali-tv.com/default.asp

    make sure that you purchase the QS1080IR model (which is the latest one).
    Geez. This sounds like an advert for them!!

    :devil:
     

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