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DLP/ RD50 'lip sync'

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by andyxxx, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    I have owned my RD50 for just over a week and the lip sync goes from watchable to a half second (ish) out.

    This happens through Sky digital and terrestrial but I have not noticed it on the few DVDs I have watched.

    Optoma have been very helpful - agreeing to exchange the set, but suggesting that there is a good chance we will continue to see it on the replacement.

    Is anybody else having this problem with there rd50? (or infact any other make of DLP)

    regards

    Andy
     
  2. Razor

    Razor
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    I think I have replied to this before, but if I havent here goes.

    What dvd player are you using and what amp. This may have some baring to the problem. I have an RD65 and there is no lip sync problems to note. I have a five year old Sony DVP725, Panasonic DMR E55 and a Sony 930 amp. However I have heard of people who are having the same problem as you.

    Is the speech coming before the motion or is it the otherway around. If the speech is coming before the motion then the picture processing should be the culprit.

    There is a device which can sort your problem out if you get no joy with Optoma, the link is found below.

    http://www.felston.com/dd340_buy.htm?

    I hope you manage to sort this problem out as I know how fustraiting and usless Optoma can be. Keep me informed with your progress.

    Ps. what sky box have you got and does this happen on a different tv or different input on the RD'.
     
  3. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Razor

    I am using a Denon amp - AVR 3300 and a Sony DVD - DVP S725D (the same as you) Sky Digital Grundig.

    The problem did not occur on the 4 year old 32" panasonic widescreen it replaced.

    I will take a look at the link that you kindly suggest, but will not pay to sort the problem out if it is a fault of the tv, I will return it and purchase a different brand.

    I have read your threads with Optoma and can understand your frustration with the company. Because of you and others on this forum I was aware of the region 1 problem and bought the set knowingly. However I have found the response of the company to my problem more than helpful (ie. replacement set and if the problem continues return and refund.)

    Anybody else any suggestions or problems?

    regards

    Andy
     
  4. Razor

    Razor
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    Hi Andy,

    Have you tried the set with the sound outputing through the RD50 and not your amp? Is the problem still there?

    I have my Sky plus box connected up through the optical link which is a Pace version 2.

    I hope you get it sorted out one way or another.
     
  5. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    I am suprised there has been such a small response to my thread, which would of course suggest no other rd50 owners who have read it are experiencing the problem.

    Optoma exchanged the first set 2 days ago, but I am sad to report that the replacement tv is exactly the same. The sound always comes before the movement and as stated earlier can be Ok one moment and 'miles' out within moments - This would make the felston device that Razor kindly pointed me towards no use as it seems to be a 'fixed delay' option.

    I have tried the terrestrial aerial direct into the set which makes no difference so it can't be anything but the tv.

    As a final attempt to remedy the situation I have purchased a Sony digital receiver, but this has not made it any better. As a final attempt to sort the problem (unless anybody has any suggestions (PLEASE!)) I have a company calling on Tuesday to install a Digital aerial/cable for the new receiver - though I can't see it making any difference.

    If not I will be sending the set back - which I really do not want to do cos overall I am impressed with it.

    Regards

    Andy
     
  6. Chris5

    Chris5
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    If you are getting problems when using the inbuilt tuner and speakers then I don't know what to say, otherwise check your external amp for any lipsync delay feature that you may of accidently switched on / changed recently

    PS I have an RD50 and have not had any sync problems, athough I use a pioneer amp (with delay feature not used/needed)
     
  7. Razor

    Razor
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    I am puzled as to why your experiancing this problem. It sounds like the picture processing is taking its time, which would point to your TV set. Or like Chris said there might be a delay on your amp. Ask Optoma to send an engineer round to solve the problem.

    Ps does it only produce this fault on sky transmisions? Or is there any time when this fault doesnt occur (i.e. dvd play back, paly back through the TV's own speakers rather than through the amp etc).
     
  8. Razor

    Razor
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  9. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Chris
    The problem occurs when using the inbuilt tuner and speakers. I do not kow if my amp has a delay feature but even if it did the problem comes and goes during the same broadcast so if I set a delay it would surely make no difference? unless I was experiencing a constant time delay?

    Razor
    It produces the same problem wether on sky digital, terrestrial (coaxal aerial straight into the set) and latterly with the digital receiver (though that is receiving down the standard aerial and coaxal until Tuesday when an aerial company is to fit a new digital aerial and cable)

    I have only watched two full DVDs (through the amp) since owning the rd50 and tried a number of other scenes from various discs and not noticed the problem - which obviously makes it appear as if it is the tv, but this is the second one- surely not likely that we would get two duff ones when nobody else is having the problem!

    At which point I must add. - I am not being fussy or trying to see a problem that is not there, I really want to like and keep the product. It is not only me that has seen it - it is too obviously visible to miss and is driving my Mrs further up the wall than me!!!

    As Razor suggests, I will give Optomas engineers an opportunity to reset/repair/whatever they do to these things before returning it for a refund.

    regards

    Andy
     
  10. Razor

    Razor
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    Andy can I ask why you are using the sets (RD50) speakers instead of your amp and 5.1/6.1 set up? To be honest I havent checked to see if the lip sync is visable through the set but I will and I will let you know asap. (Although I cant check terrestrial TV as I have no aerial, only my sky+).

    I sympathise with you andy as bad lip sync is a pain.

    You end up not looking at anyones mouths so you can't see the problem either that or you end up looking at nothing but the mouths and getting wound up. You shouldnt be having this problem with a £2000 set nor should we suffer non NTSC/60Hz playback.

    Where are these sets RD50/Rd65 made? Who does their quality control and testing?

    I would love to know.

    I have seen on another link in these forums of a RD50 owner complaining of his set constantly powering off.
     
  11. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Razor
    I would of course not listen to a film through the sets speakers, but when listening to the news etc It doesn't bother me hearing the sound through the set.

    However the delay seems no different wether the amp is on or not.

    I am shortly going to phone Optoma - if they can't reassure me an engineer will be able to fix the problem I shall send the set back and start the trawl for a replacement. (It took me best part of a year to decide on this one)
     
  12. Razor

    Razor
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    Lets us know hao you get on Andy. Sorry I cannot be of any help.
     
  13. BlackZam

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    I just want to say that I have the same problem with my Samsung SP-50L7HX set.
    Its not always there. But sometimes it is a very big problem with the lip sync thru the sets own spekers.

    //Martin
    this was my first post on avforums.com. :)
     
  14. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Martin
    How long have you had your set? Will you return it? Does it happen through your amp as well? and what about DVDs? How intermittent is your problem? (Ours is fairly permanent but seems to get worse and then suddenly correct itself slightly - bur rarely is it spot on)

    I am sorry to hear you are having the same problem, but especially so cos If I send my set back(which I think is likely cos I do not think Optoma will know of a fix) your set was my most likely replacement!
     
  15. St_ve

    St_ve
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    andy martin any luck solving ur problem yet am really puzzled that lip synch is a problem with the TV speakers have noticed lip synch probs surfing the channels with telewst blueyonder only twice since Xmas Eve & that was definately a problem with the broadcast not the RD50 or amp.I have used the tv speakers although i allways power up my sound amp to watch a film.
    When using my PC (no R1 judder) i selected external sound processor with WinDVD6
    & the lipsynch was about 5 seconds out untill i switched back to Spdif output.
    The fact that you've had it on two RD50's & nobody else has reported seems to indicate something in your house.
    Heres some wild guesses .Sky box playing up? faulty electric supply?
    the most obvious one would be your 5.1 amp
    When my son had sky in his bedroom & i was on terrestial there was allways about 1 second between the sound of the sets although there was no lip synch probs
     
  16. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    St ve

    Still having the same problem. I know it seems strange that I still get it on the replacement set - but can assure you, everybody that looks at it can see it.

    I notice you and Denon have been experimenting with computers, but I hate tweaking/messing around with settings and cables and especially computers!!

    I appreciate your suggestions, however, the electrics are fairly new (so very doubtful). I had thought of the SKY box, so I purchased a top end digital receiver and that shows the same problem - as it does if I pass the terrestrial coaxil analogue aerial direct in to the tv.

    Like you I normally only use the amp when watching DVDs (DVDs do not show the problem) but when I play SKY through the amp the problem persists. - So I am stumped!
    Optoma tell me they are looking into the problem and have offered a full refund if they can't remedy it.

    I have been running a seperate thread about the poor picture quality via SKY and one possibility (though at £700ish, dear) would be a scaler/deinterlacer such as iscan HD which would possibly improve the picture but also has the sync delay I need.

    I wish I had never swapped from my 32" cos that picture was excellent but now would not like to revert back to that size and alas there are not many alternatives to the RD50 yet.
     
  17. Razor

    Razor
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    Hi andy,

    If you are getting lip sync through your amp when watching sky it cant be the tv. As the tv doesnt do anything to the signal. Sound comes from the sky box directly to your amp and doesnt have anything to do with the tv. If your dvd play back had the same problem then I would suspect that the rd50 was delaying the picture proccessing. As this is not so I would personally rule the RD50 out of the equation. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Also you are never going to get a picture on a screen with double the surface area to look as good as it did on a 32' crt. FACT. I am used to the pictures on sky as I had a 46' rear pro and the pictures on sky via my rd65 are good.
    What I cant understand is why anyone would use the rd set's speakers if you have a surround set up. I never use my tv speakers. Surround all the way.

    I hope you get your problem fixed Andy I know how fustrating it can be.
     
  18. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    I do not know the answer, but it seems the opposite of what you suggest - surely the amp sends the same signal it receives and then the tv processes it?
    Analogue direct to tv = delay
    SKY digital via SKY box to tv = delay
    Freeview via DTT receiver to tv = delay
    Any of the above therough the amp = same delay
    DVD through amp OK.

    The picture from on the RD50 via DVD is as good as on the old 32" But I agree that the larger dlp set shows up the poor broadcast quality of SKY more.

    One thing to add - after nearly a month of veiwing, the the 'lip sync' problem bothers me a lot less!!
    - but the crappy SKY picture bothers me more!!!
     
  19. Razor

    Razor
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  20. St_ve

    St_ve
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    Perhaps u could borrow somebody's skybox & amp to see if that helps?
    did u ask Optoma if the RD 50 had the fault when they got back to base & tested it ?
    Have u tried resetting back to default settings on the TV & skybox. :confused:
     
  21. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    St ve
    Optoma have just phoned me and acknowledged 'large screen displays can sometimes display this problem' They have only had 1 other RD50 owner (up to now) report this problem so it is obviously fairly isolated. I did not think to ask if they tested the returned set. They have been very fair in so far as giving me another week to decide if I can live with it and if not will make a full refund.

    Razor
    Thanks for the link - I will bear it in mind - it all seems a bit of a dear gamble (If someone would demo and prove said product or the iscan HD, I would purchase one) I know the iscan would solve the lip sync and possibly improve the picture - but like I say It seems a dear gamble.
     
  22. Razor

    Razor
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    Owl video do a home demonstration on the Iscan. John Archer (Home Cinema Choice reviewer) recommended them to me.

    Tel: 01825 766123

    I was going to arrange a viewing but none were in the country when I contacted them over a few weeks ago.

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  23. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Razor

    Thanks for the number - I just got a chap before he knocked off for the weekend. They are going to phone me next week to arrange a demo. (Could be a dear week cos my DVD is going on the blink and needs replacing)
     
  24. Razor

    Razor
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    Poor you, this aint a cheap hobby, but I couldnt watch most peoples tv sets and enjoy it. A lot of my friends still watch a mono 21' tv from 12 feet.

    What dvd player are you going for?
     
  25. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    Owl Video have phoned me back and say they will not do a home demo on just this one bit of kit. So if anybody has any other suggestions for retailers/suppliers who do home demos I would appreciate it.
     
  26. Chris5

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    Watch out what Owl tell you, when my IScanHD+ was ordered from them 3 weeks ago they told my dealer they were in stock and would be sent out straight away, only this week they admitted they had non in stock but might have some next week, needless to say I am not pleased with Owl, I'm sure Gordon (Lumagen) would not treat his customers that way.
     
  27. Razor

    Razor
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    That is bad that they wont do a home demo. There not going to sell any units that way.
     
  28. Dabs

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    The lip sync problem is driving me and especially the Mrs up the wall.
    When viewing Sky with my Pace Sky+ box its sometimes worse than other days but always out of sync.The channels differ too.(ITV being the worse).
    When watching DVDs its fine so i just put it down to Sky.
    BUT i have a portable in the conservatory connected to the same Sky+ box via the rf output and theres no lip sync problem,infact when watching both together the RD50 is slightly slower processing the picture.
    Is this normal as the screen size is so large or should i expect better for a 2 grand telly.
     
  29. andyxxx

    andyxxx
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    I think we should expect better.

    However Optoma have offered me a refund which if I accept puts me in the previous dillema. ie - What alternatives are there at present, offering similar spec for the price?
    1 Toshiba 52WM48P - Ugly ears
    2 SAMSUNG SP50L7HX Strange pedestal, ugly ears and nearly 50% dearer
    3 Sagem Axium HD-D45 - Not big g enough (for me)
    4 Infocus 50md10 Not launched yet (price?)

    Any body know of any others?
     
  30. Razor

    Razor
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    Infocus got a bad write up for their 61' set. It is made under the thomson brand name in the uk. Then 61' set costs £6000.

    The review basically said because of its slim design the viewing angle was compromised. So unless your sat right in front of the screen you wont get the full benifit. This was a problem which plagued older crt rear projection sets. The review is in Home cinema choice.

    I can understand you do not want to down grade in picture size, so the Sagem D-45 is out. I quiet like the look of the samsung although the only pictures I have seen have been from a poor feed in currys. However I like the styling (i gather you dont) and Home cinema choice rated this unit very highly.

    I dont know why toshiba have put those silly flaps on the side of their current model. Most people with a 40'+ set have their own surrond set up. All they have to do is make them detachable. I personally wasnt mad for the picture on the tosh after viewing it at the what hifi show. It was good, just not spectacular.

    What about the 50' sagem if they have the HTCP problem sorted, I would go for one of those. I have only seen hi-def on these sets but it was impressive. The picture was far better than the tosh, but again it was hi-df.

    You could try the Sim2 55' rear pro, but this isnt cheap.

    I think that is all that is avialible at the moment. Shame.
     

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