DLP question

[southpaw]

Today I went to my local Comet and local Currys.

I was going to purchase a 32" LCD but would like something bigger.

Had thought about a Plasma but unsure regarding ScreenBurn.

Anyway after looking on this site I ready about Rear Projection I started to think that this was for me.

BUT after today I'm back to square one.

I know the feeds are crap in store but WHY are DLPs so dark. Every single one in both shops were so dark. Samsungs Sagems all of them! Now I was standing so I crouched down and it improved slightly but does this mean that at home I would need to be facing the screen dead centre and at eye level.

If I was stood up or sat at the side is this what I'd encounter?

I have to say that I was really disappointed. I had a look at the LCDs which had mixed results and some Plasmas which again had mixed results but these were so bright and colourful and overall in store these had the better pictures.

Your thoughts appreciated.

 

[vipergrm]

I also had this problem when I went to Currys. There are many adjustments you can make to brighten the set up. I do agree. I found them all to be very dull and the crouching trick worked a bit better. I have been assured by many on this forum that the screen is just as bright and more colourful than most LCD and Plasmas. I have already purchased the Samsung 46" DLP but still awaiting delivery. I'm sure some folk can post a few pictures so you can make your opwn judgement.

I had an LCD but sent it back because of the jiddery movement and grey blacks. I have yet to see an LCD that looks good when watching football. Smearing etc really seems to be a big issue with them. That is why I am changing to DLP.

 

[JayList]

I am placing an order for the RD65 tommrow.

From all I have read DLP is as good as the best plasma, yet is cheaper for the size. (I'm sure the are some exceptions but anyway).

If you based buying any display on the quality of screen in Currys you would end up sticking with your old CRT.

They leave the sets as they are, they have really false lighting , and use such a crap signal that you can't judge the quality of anything.

 

[vipergrm]

I totally agree with you JayList. The lightning environment is completely unrealistic for a home environment. I know the LCDs and Plasmas appear to be brighter but like I said, I have asked these questions myself and all who own a DLP have replied with VERY positive answers. Also, you can replace the bulb on a DLP over several years (when it fades) and this would more or less restore the TV to it's new state. something you cannot do with either LCD or Plasma.

 

[LV426]

...you can replace the bulb on a DLP over several years (when it fades) and this would more or less restore the TV to it's new state. something you cannot do with either LCD or Plasma.

Really?

It's certainly true that a Plasma screen is largely unrepairable as it deteriorates. However

- an LCD rear projector (eg the large Sony) has a bulb much as a DLP RP has and it is user replaceable.
- a direct view LCD has a backlight, with an estimated lifespan (according to Sharp) of 60,000 hours. (> 27 years at 6 hours per day). It, too, is replaceable.

Now, as to whether the LCD Matrix itself deteriorates over time...........there's little in the way of real evidence. Only some unrealistic (IMO) testing done by an independent organisation sponsored by TI. It's likely that such real evidence (e.g. by members of this forum) would have materialised by now; LCD is far from a new technology. I bought my first LCD (an RPTV) in 1996. It's still in regular daily use (by my brother-in-law).

 

[LV426]

Brightness of the image is unlikely to have anything to do with the signal. Many RP devices have a restricted view angle in the vertical plane and are positioned too low, in stores, for people who are standing up. Try crouching down next time.

Also, the lighting conditions in stores don't realistically reflect what you might have at home. Most "other" TVs are actually far, far too bright/contrasty for home use, but are OK for store display.

Having said all that - I strongly recommend you ensure you (and your family etc) aren't affected by the "rainbow effect" before you step into this particular technology. Search this forum for more on this, if you need to.

 

[JayList]

I don't think that LCD deteriorates bar the odd dead pixel, when one blows.

J

 

[LV426]

....and that's pretty rare. DOA, yes. Fail in use - rare.

 

[Van300]

I am placing an order for the RD65 tommrow.

From all I have read DLP is as good as the best plasma, yet is cheaper for the size. (I'm sure the are some exceptions but anyway).

If you based buying any display on the quality of screen in Currys you would end up sticking with your old CRT.

They leave the sets as they are, they have really false lighting , and use such a crap signal that you can't judge the quality of anything.

Jaylist, you've been persuade by the dark side, otherwise known as Razor . I have RD50 which is blooming huge when located in my living room. Friends take the mick when they compare the size to an average setup. Whenever, I go to a friend's house I find it difficult to locate their TV and I may need to by a pair of binoculars .

DLP was the right choice for me with all things considered. The picture quality is excellent- bright with good contrast. There is no screenburn to worry about and HD ready. I do wish that the black could be as good as CRT but perhaps that is asking for too much currently. Blacks on DLP are not true black in a darken room but in a lit room it is not really noticeable. I am very impressed with the way it reflects very little light from around the room. This is certainly one great advantage over CRT along with the size of course.

 

[Andrew Dade]

Jay,
Please please report back your experiences when you have the RD65 installed.

I may be the next one for the RD65 if I can find one to look at first.

Best Regards

Andrew

 

[vipergrm]

Really?

It's certainly true that a Plasma screen is largely unrepairable as it deteriorates. However

- an LCD rear projector (eg the large Sony) has a bulb much as a DLP RP has and it is user replaceable.
- a direct view LCD has a backlight, with an estimated lifespan (according to Sharp) of 60,000 hours. (> 27 years at 6 hours per day). It, too, is replaceable.

Now, as to whether the LCD Matrix itself deteriorates over time...........there's little in the way of real evidence. Only some unrealistic (IMO) testing done by an independent organisation sponsored by TI. It's likely that such real evidence (e.g. by members of this forum) would have materialised by now; LCD is far from a new technology. I bought my first LCD (an RPTV) in 1996. It's still in regular daily use (by my brother-in-law).

Well, the main advantage is that they are user replaceable (on DLP). I would say that, when an LCD does need it's backlight replaced, it would cost a small fortune. However, if you had the set for 10 years then maybe it would be about time to upgrade

I too have read the unrealistic LCD/DLP lab test and I completely agree. It just doesn't seem right at all.

I'm well aware LCDs' have been around a long time. The problem that I have with LCDs is quite simple. Other than there extremely thin aesthetics, they are no match for the very old CRT technology. I find the movement and black leves to be completely unacceptable for a TV that costs so much money. I spent nearly two hours in Makro a few weeks ago just comparing them. I only saw one or two LCDs' that would be worth buying. But unfortunately I certainly wouldn't spend £2,000 on a 32" LCD just because it was 'acceptable'.

I just don't think LCDs have what it take to be a true television. Correct me if I'm wrong. The reason why LCD TV's are very popular are because of their size and the 'cool' factor.

Most people aren't bothered by smearing and jiddery movement. But I am. So, unless you fork out AT LEAST £1,500 - £2,000 for a Panasonic or Phillips, I think buying an LCD is pretty much a waste of time.

I was all for an LCD and eventually bought the ACER 32". I read loads of reviews on this set and took on board the 20 or 30 reviews on Dabs. EVERY single one of the reviews were wrong. Yes the quality was good of the product but the movement was just down right unacceptable.

There's a very simple test. Go to BBC News, Bloomberg or Sky News. Now, watch the scrolling text on an LCD comparing to a CRT. The movement is awful. Just not good enough for such an expensive set.

 

[southpaw]

Are sellers aware of the "rainbow" problem?

E.g If I purchased a DLP from Comet would they take it back (without problems) if I was one of those who suffered with the rainbow?

Or would I need to get this agreed before purchase.

Also what about on line purchases. I know I'd have the 14 days long distance but what about if I suffered later on?

I wouldn't want store credit incase a cheaper purchase could be found elsewhere.

 

[neilmcl]

Are sellers aware of the "rainbow" problem?

E.g If I purchased a DLP from Comet would they take it back (without problems) if I was one of those who suffered with the rainbow?

Or would I need to get this agreed before purchase.

Also what about on line purchases. I know I'd have the 14 days long distance but what about if I suffered later on?

I wouldn't want store credit incase a cheaper purchase could be found elsewhere.

You will know pretty much straight away if you suffer from seeing rainbows and two weeks is enough time to see if you could get used to it or not. You'll have to check what Comets returns policy is, it can range from 7 days to 28 and remember these returns policies allow you to return for whatever reason so just tell them you didn't get on with it or something.

In you're OP you asked the questions about screen brightness. It's true that DLPs have a fairly low vertical viewing aspect and you need to be in the general eyeline of the screen but I've asked many times why woule one wish to watch TV standing up anyway. Horizontally it's not much more different than an LCD in that regards.

 

[vipergrm]

I would say the best thing to do would be to go into a store and watch one of the DLPs' for a while. When I went into Currys I studied a few DLPs' and looked VERY hard for the rainbow effect. The two sets I checked (Sagem SD45 and Samsing SP50H7X) did not show any signs of the rainbow affect whatsoever. Which is just as well cuz I already ordered the Samsung SP46L6HX a few days earlier!

 

[southpaw]

It might sound odd but there would be odd occasions where I do stand and watch

e.g Certain times in the middle of a footabll match, boxing fight or even general times on your way in and out of the room, getting ready to go out etc.

 

[neilmcl]

It might sound odd but there would be odd occasions where I do stand and watch

e.g Certain times in the middle of a footabll match, boxing fight or even general times on your way in and out of the room, getting ready to go out etc.

It's not as though you can't see whats on the screen at all though during those few times when you look at the screen when standing but the point is generally you would be seated.

 

[the_pauley]

Ditto to everything LV has said.

All rear pros have a restricted vertical viewing angle - but this is only an issue if you want to watch your set while standing up - therefore, realistically, it isn't an issue.

As for horizontal viewing angles, I bought the Samsung SP46 and the picture stays bright and sharp from the side of the screen - even at angles so acute you wouldn't want to view from them.

Also, despite a great in store demo, under home conditions picture quality was better still!

 

[LV426]

To southpaw: The Rainbow issue is not a fault; its a characteristic of this type of TV which affects a minority of people. So, a retailer will have no legal duty to replace or exchange or refund for this reason. That's not to say that some retailers won't exceed their legal obligation and actually do so.

 

[JayList]

Jaylist, you've been persuade by the dark side, otherwise known as Razor . I have RD50 which is blooming huge when located in my living room. Friends take the mick when they compare the size to an average setup. Whenever, I go to a friend's house I find it difficult to locate their TV and I may need to by a pair of binoculars .

DLP was the right choice for me with all things considered. The picture quality is excellent- bright with good contrast. There is no screenburn to worry about and HD ready. I do wish that the black could be as good as CRT but perhaps that is asking for too much currently. Blacks on DLP are not true black in a darken room but in a lit room it is not really noticeable. I am very impressed with the way it reflects very little light from around the room. This is certainly one great advantage over CRT along with the size of course.

Yeah, I want some 65 inch digital loving. I know what you mean about tv sizes. My wife is going to hit the roof when she sees it. It has zero wife aproval factor (WAF).

I just thought, why the hell not. It has come down in price by a lot and well worth the dosh (hopefully).

Plus we can both watch tv with POP. Or I can play vidgames on one side and she can have the tv on t'other.

Glad you like yours, can't wait for mine.

 

[JayList]

Jay,
Please please report back your experiences when you have the RD65 installed.

I may be the next one for the RD65 if I can find one to look at first.

Best Regards

Andrew

Will do. Don't think I'll be able to keep it quiet anyway!

 

[the_pauley]

Southpaw - to put the whole "rainbows" issue into perspective, here's my "real-world" experience of the issue in day-to-day usage.

Since August 14th when I took delivery of my Samsung I have had a parade of friends, acquaintances and friends-of-friends through my door to see my Samsung DP46 in action.

Between groups of us having movie marathons every weekend since, to people just popping in for a quick look and ending up in front of it for an hour or more watching various clips, I'd say I've had easily over 70-odd people view the set. Only one had prior knowledge of the technology, had read about the effect, and immediately looked for rainbows expecting to see an explosion of colour all ove the screen that shouldn't be there. He claimed that, yes, he noticed them very occasionally, but the effect was so miniscule as to be virtually un-noticeable.

Out of all the others roughly two thirds didn't see the effect at all, and the others only noticed it when I told them what they should be looking for. Even then not one of them considered the effect to be of any consequence or a detriment to their enjoyment of the set. The reaction to the effect tended to be along the lines of "Is that all?"...

The rule is simple - check it out for yourself. But do check it out. I just think there is a danger of the issue being grossly overstated and some might cross DLP off their list sight-unseen because of the emphasis on "rainbows".

 

[LV426]

....some might cross DLP off their list sight-unseen because of the emphasis on "rainbows"....

which would indeed be a mistake.

However, there are enough instances in this forum, of people who have returned (or wished they could return, or have sold almost unused) their DLP sets for precisely and only this reason to suggest that anyone considering this technology should at least be on warning. Unlike (say) greyish black, motion smearing, etc., this particular artefact, at its worst, can be wholly unbearable to the unfortunate few.

 

[skunk123punk]

I have a Sagem HD45 DLP and to be honest it was a replacement for a LG Plasma that could not be repaired and so a hastily non-researched purchase. After it was installed I was blown away by the picture quality, contrast and brightness. As I had previously spent a great deal of time looking at reviews of the LG Plasma on these forums, after a few day's I decided to look for any comments on the Sagem DLP. I noticed quite a few posts on the "rainbow" effect and well that was it. I immediately went downstairs and sat watching the history channel, straight away what did I see, rainbows, whenever the screen was mostly dark and the image was moving fast, rainbows. I could not understand just the day before I had watched 3 hours of the World At War which is predominantly black and white and not once could I recall seeing the rainbow effect. I asked the missus if she saw any rainbows when watching any programs and she could not understand what she was meant to look for, I asked the kids, and they could not comprehend what I meant, rainbows on TV no, all I see is the same as before only bigger my son said. Now after 8 or so weeks I am not looking for the rainbow effect so I don't see it. It's as simple as that. When you have just spent the best part of two grand and there is potentially any flaw you scrutinize it. I can honestly say that when I sit down and watch any program, DVD or video game on my DPL I don't see the rainbow effect because I am not looking for it.

I'm not saying everyone will have the same experience, but two day's after reading threads on the rainbow effect I was ready to return the DLP to Comet. Now I am so so glad I didn't.

Cheers

Skunk