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dlp projectors

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by CYRUStheVIRUS, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. CYRUStheVIRUS

    CYRUStheVIRUS
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    In the last few weeks i have tried to demo as many dlp's as possible and thought i would share my findings.

    First one i got to demo was Infocus 5700 which had a superb picture and was very bright even with some room lighting, i could easily live with this, the only downside was no lens shift and not a very good zoom, the dealer had to mess about a lot to fit picture to the screen. I put on MI2 and in the latin dance scene was the only time i really noticed rainbows.

    Next dealer i visited had sharp z200e, z91 and optoma h30.
    The Z91 was already playing Bond (Die another day i think) and the colours were so bold and bright that i had to ask if it was the z200e being used. I then had the z200e setup which has new matterhorn chip and is 16/9 something which the older z91 wasn't, the projectors look very similar and when it was fired up my immediate impression was it looked no better and at twice the price i was a little disappointed.

    Now we came to the h30 which i had high hopes for, could i get a good picture for silly money?, the answer im afraid is NO the little h30 which suited my throw distance and could be put on a shelf was awful, even my girlfriend who was secretly hoping i would pick the h30 said i don't think that looks very good. The dealer argued that they had just got it and it needed calibration but i was not impressed, the z200e was just thrown up their and switched on as well.
    I then asked him to switch all 3 projectors on at the same time and we used a book to block two out, the h30 looked like LCD the black was grey and red was dim and flitting between h30 and z91 was embarassing. I then asked him to switch off h30 and concentrated on the difference between z91 and z200.

    The z200 i then noticed was richer in colour and maybe a tad brighter than the z91 and the more we watched the easier it became to see the improvement in the z200, blue water and the green grass were more vivid.

    The prices were h30 £1200 z91 £1800 and z200 £3495 (i know these can be bought cheaper elsewhere)

    And finally today i viewed the infocus 5700 again and the sim20 and sim30 and also asked for a look at h30 again.

    Infocus still looked good and i don't think anybody would be disappointed with buying one (if the positioning is not a problem).

    The sim20 when they first hooked it up seemed very dull and going from the infocus needed the room darkened completely but after a few seconds of my eyes adjusting, i could see why so many people have bought this model, it was slightly sharper than the infocus but i would say no more than 20% better overall.

    Lastly he pursuaded me to have a look at sim30 using a DVHS player and a high defination tape of Bikini babes.
    The only thing i can say is wow wow WOW (and the picture was'nt bad either :D )
    No seriously i could not believe the difference and i don't think i am someone to exaggerate, its the first time i am going to use the phrase night and day, it was so clear, even better than my 32" tv.
    So my conclusion is either do not see what hi-def can do or get saving to be apart of it.

    sorry if this post is not very technical and too long, all the projectors were viewed in prog-scan and by decent dvd players Denon 2900 twice and Arcam dv89, any questions i will try and answer. cheers
     
  2. RTFM

    RTFM
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    Cyrus,

    You must have a patient, understanding dealer. You've certainly given him a good workout. Stick with him.
    Thanks for sharing your views
     
  3. KraGorn

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    I recently got a Z200 as a change-over from my Z2, it's the first DLP I've owned, and my first thoughts were how gorgeous the colours are compared to the Z2. It's not the 'blackest' of projectors, an HT1000 I trialled last autumn was better in that respect, but the blacks are more than adequate and the level of detail is remarkable compared to the LCD.

    Clearly at around £2600 incl. it's not a top-flight DLP but the picture quality is excellent .. to me as a non-expert in these matters ;) .. even at the 1024x576 resolution as compared to the 1280x720 of the Z2. I'm sure a D20 is 'better', it'll be quieter certainly though the Z200 isn't very noisy the colour-wheel's whine take a little getting used to, but whether it's £1500 better is surely going to be debateable I'd have thought.

    I don't know about the Z91, I see rainbows a lot even with the 5x wheel of the Z200 (though rarely find them annoying), slower wheels like that of the HT1000 proved un-bearable.
     
  4. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    btw what are the "average" lamp life expectancy of these new DLPs? My first DLP had a lamp rating of 1000 hours (and the person I sold it to ran it to 999 hours before changing it:)), which I always thought was too low. Have DLPs improved in this regard?
     
  5. ReTrO

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    The Sharp XV-Z200/201 will run to 4,000 hours in eco (150W) mode or 2,500 hours in normal (210W) mode.

    Regards
     
  6. ntslik

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    A little harsh on the H30 i thought, if you were comparing that to the others, how about comparing it to the Sanyo Z1 or the Epson entry levels, think you would appreciate what the H30 has to offer for the price bracket.
     
  7. Graham N

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    Cyrus

    I travelled a long way to compare the Sharp 200 and Screenplay 5700, unfortunately the 5700 didn't arrive from another branch in time. I ended up comparing the Sharp 91E and Themescene H30 to the 200.

    I agree with you about the colour and brightness between the two Sharps. However I found the 200 had very distracting interference or grain of some kind that I could not see on the 91E or on the H30 which was very smooth. I have heard that the screenplay picture is grainy also when compared to the domino 20.

    If I had bought there and then it would have been between the H30 and 91E, the H30 due to its price or the 91E because of its short throw lens. I understand the 201 is available now (short throw version of 200) but I wouldn't consider it because of the distractions mentioned.

    Did you notice this yourself, especially between the 91e, Z200, Sim20 & Screenplay.

    Cheers,

    Graham
     
  8. kurtz

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    Cyrus,

    You mentioned one instance of rainbows with the InFocus; did you see any when watching the Sharp/Optoma/Sim projectors?
    Good luck on your quest.
     
  9. CYRUStheVIRUS

    CYRUStheVIRUS
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    RTFM- I viewed these projectors from two dealers and both were helpful.

    NTSLIK- I had high hopes for H30 and it is aggressively priced, but the Z91 is only £400 more and my AE300 seems not far off with no rainbows. (if you hurry up with my invite, i will take another look;) )

    Graham N- Both the Z200 and 5700 had a bit more what the dealer called picture noise than the sim20. I did not notice anything but a slight improvement between Z91 and Z200.

    KURTZ- Im afraid i seen rainbows on all models, i think this is an unavoidable trait in single chip dlp's but unless you cannot sit still they should not bother most people, also they are more evident on certain scenes.
     
  10. Benito

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    Having seen both the Sharp Z91 and H30 side by side running Terminator 3, I found the picture quality to be near identicle. I did not see poorer black reproduction or any other negative issues with colour quality on the H30 that Cyrus described. I certainly noticed that I was less rainbow prone to these two projectors than my Runco CL500. As for the Sim 30, I agree, I think it's an amazing projector.
     
  11. Peter Baker

    Peter Baker
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    I have the Infocus 5700, and tried it compared to the sim2 domino and the Optoma h56. The H56 did very little for me, just not leap off the screen impressive over my existing Panansonic PTAE100. The Infocus seemed much brighter than the Sim, and this was a clincher for me , as I wanted to be able to watch with ambient light (group of mates over for the Rugby).
    At the time I also preferred the colour balance on the Infocus, but am prepared to admit that it might have been the extra brightness seducing me.
    I can see some grain on the infocus, but really only in very dark scenes, or occasionally on sky shots. Most of the time I am blown away by how smooth it looks. I use an Arcam FMJ27 and this produces the smoothest picture I have seen so this helps.
    Certainly the slight grain I occasionally see is nothing like as bad as the screendoor I had on the Panasonic (or the soft focus).
    Hope this helps
    Pete
     
  12. CYRUStheVIRUS

    CYRUStheVIRUS
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    I think because Infocus and Sharp are strong in Data projectors market they tend to make brighter projectors, where sim only make projectors for H.C.
     
  13. Geoffc10

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    the sim2 will always be dimmer compared to other models, the sim2 is designed for people who like blacked out rooms(proper home cinema).having the image too bright will make your eyes sore after watching a long film.
     
  14. David Scott

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    This isn't strictly on topic. I've never seen a dlp projector but I've read that rainbows are likely to be worse on black and white movies. If anyone has any experience of black and white movies on cheaper dlps I'd be interested to hear about it.

    Have to be able to watch Andrei Rublev and Raging Bull to name but two.

    Thanks,

    David
     
  15. Beastie Boy

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    I think when considering DLP pj's in this price bracket the Benq PE8700 could be worth a look. It doesn't get much of a mention on this forum but is quite highly rated on the AVS board.

    It certainly stands out regarding value for money. It features the 1280x720 DLP chip (higher res than all the others mentioned) and can be picked up for £2850. It's closest pixel/£ rival is the Infocus 7200 @ £5000!

    Has anyone seen these, I don't even know where they can be demo'd.

    Cheers, Beastie.
     
  16. The Nightfly

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    The BenQ was on my (very) short list of projectors when I was looking to buy in early January. Unfortunately at that point in time there was an issue with stock held at the UK distributors suffering from barrel distortion. As no date could be specified for a guaranteed trouble-free unit and I'm not the patient sort I ended up buying the NEC HT1100 that was launched at the time.

    I'm very happy with my projector and I'm sure I would also have been happy with the BenQ if I'd waited for the lens issue to be resolved. Owning either projector would have it's pro's and con's. The BenQ would have the edge when it comes to resolution and screen door. I'm quite sure the NEC has the better contrast ratio and probably has the edge in absolute PQ (colour, vibrancy, image depth and so on). I think a comparison of the BenQ with the Sim2 Domino 20 would probably yield very similar conclusions.

    For anyone who's priority is a larger screen/wider viewing angle the BenQ would make the better choice. If you are prepared to sacrifice a bit of screen size for better picture quality then the NEC (or the Sim2 if you can acccomodate the long throw) would probably swing it.

    Allan
     
  17. Kramer

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    1024x576 res PJs can't compete with 1280x720 (HD2/HD2+) PJs IMO & experience.

    I was very impressed with the HT1000 but it was let down by its relatively low resolution.
     
  18. Beastie Boy

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    Kramer, is this because you use a HTPC or would you say the same to someone using analogue connection from a standard DVD player?
     
  19. The Nightfly

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    Kramer,

    Disregarding throw ratios and such and based purely on picture quality considerations would you say that still held true with the BenQ ?

    Allan
     
  20. Kramer

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    Obviously, 1280x720 is ideal & easily implimented from a HCPC point of view. 1024x576 I've only tried on the HT1000 with limited success.

    I assume 1024x576 is do-able on the current crop of PJs.

    I'm commenting more in terms of resolution.

    A 1280x720 PJ has 56.25% more pixels than a 1024x576. That's quite an advantage :eek:

    Having that many more pixels means that the size of the projected pixels is considerably smaller than those from a 1024x576 PJ.

    This results in far less screendoor, far less pixelation being visible, far smoother edges - curves/diagonals especially & subjectively a sharper picture. Obviously there's no more detail in the picture (unless you're using a 720p source etc.) but the higher resolution does result in a "perceived" higher resolution image.

    Basically, higher res panels have many advantages & do (on the whole) provide a smoother, more filmlike picture.

    In other areas yes, lower res PJs can better their high res counterparts but this is more a general PJ trait than resolution specific.

    The HT1000 for example produced the best black level I've yet seen, had excellent colour rendition & CR. Better than many 1280x720 units I've seen.

    Personally, 1280x720 is a minimum requirement for me. I do use an 8' screen & sit at most 1.5 to 1.6 times screen width away. A 1024x576 DLP on a 8' screen viewed from 16' would be OK but not from a viewing distance of 11' or 12'. A 1280x720 DLP under these conditions would be an entirely different story.

    Bit long winded but hope I've made at least some sense.

    :smoke:
     
  21. pdundas

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    I've had a PE8700 for about 3 months and would recommend it very strongly.

    The only caveat is that some examples had a degree of barrel distortion so check it if you buy one. Other than that I'd rate it well above all the models you list (in fact I'd rate any HD2 1280x720 model above them - they're all good - the Benq just happens to be the cheapest).

    There is also a new PE8710 arriving shortly which uses the HD2+ chip and will probably replace the 8700. Whether it is much better remains to be seen and if you can get a good deal on a 8700 it might be the better buy.
     
  22. JohnWH

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    Hmm, I'm using a Z200->92in diag with a viewing distance of ~12ft, screendoor/pixelation is visible but not to any large degree generally being dependent on the scene (and largely better than any LCD I've ever looked at). But I'd say, for myself, this is probably about the limit of screen size/view dist for this res, 16ft view dist seems like overkill to me! Although I guess if I was to use 1280x720 for a bit and then switch back it'd make me groan...

    John.
     
  23. KraGorn

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    I have the same setup, projection distance is 15', and agree completely :) ... at times the pixellation is just a tad annoying, but it's fleeting and the overall PQ is still better than my Z2 which doesn't suffer such an effect.
     
  24. pdundas

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    Remeber that the "fill" degree is also important - not just the resolution.

    As a very general rule, LCD panels have the least "fill" so the most noticable "screen door" at a given distance/resolution, followed by DLP, followed by D-ILA/LCOS.
     
  25. JohnWH

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    Going to have to take a look at D-ILA/LCOS at some point, still a bit pricey isn't it? Someone at work mention that Sony are doing a full HD (1080) LCOS PJ now....

    Anyone know what the speed of the colour wheel is in the BenQ 8700?

    Cheers,
    John.
     
  26. KraGorn

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    6-segment 4x according to the ProjectorCentral review.
     
  27. ReTrO

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    JVC DLA-HX1 1400x788p D-ILA SRP £6,495.00 + VAT
     
  28. JohnWH

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    Only 800:1 contrast ratio, not as good as DLP's of around 1/3 the price, although obviously no rainbows...
     
  29. petrolhead

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    The JVC got slated on a recent magazine review, What HiFi Sound and Vision
     
  30. ntslik

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    Still waiting for free stocks at the moment.....very soon though
     

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