A short while ago it was mentioned that LCDs had grey blacks, despite the very high contrast ratios claimed by some projectors which use an iris. Oakleyspatz mentioned that and I wondered why that was the case considering that a 7000:1 CR pj will have considerably darker black level than a DLP with only 3000:1 CR (provided the white level was equal on both). I saw Donny Darko's Sanyo Z4 yesterday, so I managed to see what was going on, and what Oakly had been seeing. The truth is a bit of both! With the Z4 in vivid mode and the auto iris working, we measured a contrast ratio of over 8500:1. This was after setting the white and black levels, but not at D65 or indeed anywhere close to good colour balance, but the CR would be higher still if we ramped up the contrast further. Anyway, with the iris shut down, we were getting deep blacks. With the iris open and the lamp on full (I think it ramps the lamp up and down too), we were getting about 46ft lamberts of reflectance on my screen. That's plasma levels. That put the black level at about 0.005FL. My H78 at 9FL and 2650:1CR gives a better black at 0.003FL. But read on. What I did then was add two sets of lens filters to dim the Z4 image down to approx 12ft lamberts (cinema levels of reflectance), and then we produced a black field with two moving bars (Avia's needle pulse test pattern - T1C4). We could still see the moving bars, but the black level was almost as deep as a CRT which had been set for shadow detail (no gamma tweaks to allow FFTB). The black level was now 0.001FL. Now here is the difference between a native 8500:1 capable pj and the Z4; in mid average picture level scenes where the iris wasn't working, the native CR of the pj was visible - the blacks were much greyer and not as black as my H78 (given that that is currently runing at about 9FL). I think we measured a CR of about 1200:1 in one mode, which was probably closer to the native CR of the Z4. So, if an iris is working and working well, the black levels will be better than a DLP, but when it isn't, the DLP will still have better blacks. It's all down to the iris and the implementation, and what calibrating to D65 will do to the white level. HTH Gary.