DIY Sub or JL Audio F113

Rob4567

Novice Member
Hi everyone I’m after some advise on subs. I want to upgrade my Monitor Audio RSW12 and have had a read of some of your DIY sub builds and it’s got me interested. I was originally looking at up grading to a JL Audio Fathom f113, how would a diy build compare?

Currently I feel the RSW12 is sometimes a bit lost in my room.

What drivers would you recommend if I was to go down the diy route? I have only had sealed subwoofer and this would probably be my preference, space or the wife factor is not a problem as I have a dedicated room.
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
As the JL Audio Fathom f113 is around 4.000£, as long as you are willing to accept more boxes, it would be very easy to best it by going DIY.

Regarding the available drivers, in UK (and also in Europe), IMO, ATM these are the 2 best options, each with its strengths and "disadvantages":

- Fi Car Audio HT-3: 489£ - 34mm xmax
- BMS 18N862: 449£ - 19mm xmax

If you are looking for the maximum SPL down low (< 30Hz), the FI is the better option, it will be an excellent performer for 0-80Hz.

If you are looking for a more balanced driver, that can play from 0-150Hz, the BMS is a better choice.

You can more or less "compare" them to the JL:
Check data-bass.com, and compare:
- JL Audio E112
- BMS 18N682
- UXL-18, a 34cm long throw driver, should have a similar performance to the FI HT-3

Based in your post, having a Monitor Audio RSW12, and considering the JL Audio, as well as stating a preference for sealed, i assume you are looking for a "musical" subwoofer?

If so, i would advise the BMS driver, as although it does not reach as low as the Fi Ht or even the Dayton Ultimax, is the top of the line driver of BMS (was originally a 750£ driver), has a very low inductance and can play almost flat up to 500Hz.

A pair of them, each placed on a corner, for 1/3 of the price of the JL Audio, will be amazing.
If you want to go full mode, just build 4, and place each of them at each corner :)
 

MattSPL

Active Member
The JL Audio is a great sub, I had an f112 a few years ago. They can pressurise the room nicely.
If you like the idea of auto EQ alongside traditional sub volume and crossover controls and have the cash, they are perfect.

On the other hand, if space isn’t an issue and you have an interest in DIY, plus the willingness to buy a usb microphone and learn how to setup a DIY sub using some form of dsp(I enjoy this part as I can make the sub sound exactly as I like), then you can save a lot of money and get massive performance in the process. There’s a lot of people on this forum who will help you along the way with the build, just like they helped me, now there’s no going back :)
 

Rob4567

Novice Member
Thanks for the reply’s neo-2009 and Mattspl. Yes I would require it for music as well as movies. I will have a look at data base.com. I do have a MiniDSP usb mic and have used REW software to have a look at my room respons, but I am by no means any expert with it.

MatSPL are you using a DSPeaker Anti-Mode to set up and calibrate your sub or subs?

Has anyone had any experience using a Peerless STW-350F-188PR01-04?Peerless by Tymphany STW-350F-188PR01-04 15" High Power Subwoofer

And what are the chosen amp?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks
 

MattSPL

Active Member
Here’s a recent build with the peerless driver Another Peerless/Tymphany STW-350F 15" sub build

Im using one of these to run my active speakers and subs through
BSS FDS-334T
I use it to set a delay for the speakers to align with the subs and to flatten room mode peaks in the bass, then set a hpf currently at 56hz for the speakers and and lpf at 56hz on the subs and a +11.5db LS12 at 15hz to boost the subs bass to get down to 5hz.
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
The Perless should be an excellent drive, but i don't think it offers anything better than the above alternatives.

The FI HT3 should be able to go much lower, and the BMS should be almost the same lower, but allowing a much higher crossover.

Moreover, based on your requirements, i don't think the Perless is a good candidate: its a high inductance driver ([email protected]), low sensitivity (88.7db) and high mms (576gr), so i wouldn't use it above 80Hz.

IMO, for your requirements, i think the BMS is the best option by far ...
 

BriD

Well-known Member
FY
The Perless should be an excellent drive, but i don't think it offers anything better than the above alternatives.

The FI HT3 should be able to go much lower, and the BMS should be almost the same lower, but allowing a much higher crossover.

Moreover, based on your requirements, i don't think the Perless is a good candidate: its a high inductance driver ([email protected]), low sensitivity (88.7db) and high mms (576gr), so i wouldn't use it above 80Hz.

IMO, for your requirements, i think the BMS is the best option by far ...
Just FYI the spec sheet on the peerless is wrong. That sensitivity is with only one voive coil wired, is 91 with them both connected.

Playing with REW is works great up to 120hz (my crossover for my surrounds).

It is quite expensive in comparison to other 15s. The tiny cabinet required (60L) was what sold it to me.
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
Its an excellent driver, the new SVS's are based on that driver.
Nevertheless, its still a 15", high inductance, low sensitivity and high mms driver.

Unless space is a problem, IMO, the mentioned 18" offer better performance according to each driver strength: the Fi will go lower, and the BMS way higher than the Perless.
 

Rob4567

Novice Member
Hi BriD how low dose the peerless go and at what point does the base start to roll off? Have you got a REW graph that I can see?

Are you happy with it or them?

What amp are you using?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks
 

grog

Novice Member
Spec sheet sensitivity relates to 300-500hz 1/2 space so fairly pointless parameter to compare in isolation for a sub.
Look at (or simulate) the in box sensitivity 20-80hz. It will tell a very different story.
High Mms is actually a good thing as long as there is BL to support it . This means it will tune well in a small box.
A pro style 18" in 300L box will be a lot more sensitive above 100Hz, but that's not a subwoofer! An apache helicopter will be even louder but also not much use as a subwoofer!!
 

markymiles

Distinguished Member
Where have you got 300L from ?!?. That 18" pro style woofer models well and performs well in small enclosures. Not quite as small as the Peerless obviously.

I would think any of the suggestions will show the JL a clean pair of heels, pick your poison........
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
A pro style 18" in 300L box will be a lot more sensitive above 100Hz, but that's not a subwoofer!
Have you checked the databass.com links?
They categorize the BMS as "it behaves as a blend between a typical long throw HiFi type sub woofer and a high power pro woofer". Due to the larger area, and having 19mm xmax, it should reach as deep as the Perless, but with a big advantage above 40Hz.

But as i mentioned, if the purpose is maximum low end, the Fi HT3 is the better option available in Europe/UK.
 

MattSPL

Active Member

neo_2009

Well-known Member
The 4ohms parameter were provided directly from BMS, so they are probably accurate.
The way i see it, both offer the same performance, but allow you to get there in different ways:
- the 4ohms can be placed in a very small box, but you need lots of power
- for the 8ohms you will need a box twice the 4ohms size, but approximately half of the power
 

grog

Novice Member
What figures are you using for Xmax? as different manufacturers spec in different ways.
It's useful to calculate the excursion for half the gap still containing coil and use this as a reasonable excursion limit for low distortion.
Personally I wouldn't use a system with fc 65hz as a sub even if the output looks good..
 

grog

Novice Member
It's easy to design a driver to give great looking TS based simulations, but there is far more involved.
E.g the Xmax figures are all estimates of what is "linear" I've seen a driver with 30mm Xmax make more distortion at 2mm than a 5mm Xmax driver at 5mm excursion!

The STW has particularly stable parameters at high power, both thermal and displacement based variation is low.

The simulation above does not take into account thermal compression, and all the Sims are at differing power levels,?

I'm sure the BMS is a good driver, but it's not ideally suited to very low frequency extension in super compact box.
 

swiftpete

Distinguished Member
If I had a £4K budget and no limit on size, I’d have 100ish litre sealed cubes in each corner with an 18 inch driver in each of them and a couple of decent amps to drive them. The BMS don’t look too pretty but they seem to perform well. Im pretty certain that setup would satisfy.

However a cheaper option is get on eBay and spend £250-300 on another rsw12 and have two in your room, see if that satisfies. Two subs are usually better than one.
 
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rhinoman

Well-known Member
Running simulation in my room indicates that 4 equal subs don't work well, if i use some ~14hz units at the front, it wants ~20hz units at the back to tame some nulls.
 

Rob4567

Novice Member
So I have taken the plunge and bought a Funk Audio TSAD18 Driver TSAD18vS and a Funk Audio 2.4kWx2 M3 plate amplifier 2.4kWx2M3 Plate Amp. I found them for sale from a chap in the uk, he also gave me his box which was just a prototype for a project he was doing. I can use the box to have a play with it and the alldsp before i build an enclosure myself.

Hope I have done the right thing.
 

MattSPL

Active Member
Sounds great :)
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
Hope I have done the right thing.
The TSAD is almost a mixture between the BMS and the Fi: it shares high sensitivity and low inductance with BMS, but with a larger xmax, allowing it to go lower.

The TSAD is one of the best drivers available.
 

Rob4567

Novice Member
Can’t wait to make an enclosure got a few ideas but the wife thinks I should be doing other things with my time, so it may be a few months before I get start. It will give me time to get my head round winISD and the DSP

Has anyone used the allDSP software?
ALLDSP / Software
 

neo_2009

Well-known Member
The ALLDSP company is the OEM for several known brands, and their quality should be very good. I've used a variation of their software, for a Monacor DSM-48 Lan, and its very easy to use.

You bought an amazing kit, almost the best there is.
 

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