DIY Sound Group HTM-12 Build

Discussion in 'DIY Speaker & Subwoofer Building' started by mkohman, Nov 18, 2017.

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  1. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Thank you @Liammonty123 same to you and I will eagerly be watching your sub build thread no doubt lol and will be pestering you for help and advice in near future lol[emoji23][emoji106]. Wishing you all the best mate, Merry Christmas to you and your family...
     
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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  2. Ringnut

    Ringnut
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    Ha ha, :) I remember that same feeling when I first came across @markymiles DIYSG Cinema 8s, I was simply blown away by them. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on them once the euphoria subsides. ;) In particular I'm interested to hear how that massive 12" driver copes with mid-range frequencies.

    I thought you were taking a bit of a gamble selling your beloved M6s before you even heard these but from your comments above it all seems to have worked out well. Nice one. :smashin:
     
  3. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Hey @Ringnut I was definitely taking a gamble but I had a good feeling about the HTM-12 after all the reviews and emailing back and forth with Erich.. I'm very pleased with what I have been able to achieve and thanks for your help and advice along my little journey [emoji23]. Merry Christmas to you and family [emoji322]
     
  4. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Glad to see another person who has joined the DIY speaker flock. :thumbsup:

    Your review sounds so similar and familiar to everyone else, me included who has tried DIYSG speakers. They really are amazing. It's that revelation that I remember most clearly, that bloody hell how on earth are these speakers so good. I just can't imagine ever going back to commercial speakers. I'm sure there are those that read this and think we are all just swept up in the building and making and are somewhat delusional. I think we are all duty bound to offer as many demos as possible and spread the word. ;)

    Congratulations. just done it time for Xmas. Enjoy :clap:
     
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  5. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Thank you @markymiles much appreciated. Merry Christmas to you and family.. Tonight we will be watching The Polar Express with the new setup as I had hoped for lol [emoji23][emoji106]
     
  6. mkohman

    mkohman
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    A pic of what they look like behind the screen [emoji23]
     
  7. mkohman

    mkohman
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  8. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Mini Update:

    Happy New Year fellow forum members.. Still not writing a full review but I couldn't pass without telling you guys about my experience yesterday with the family...

    Last night my brother and family came to celebrate the new year with me and my family. After midnight celebrations and putting all our kids to bed we agreed to watch a movie.. This would be the first movie of 2018 [emoji23].

    The movie which was chosen was the new IT movie. I don't want to write up a review about the movie but all I can say is the dynamics and the performance of the HTM-12's were like nothing I have heard before.. Absolutely mind blowing.. Clean, crisp, from normal level to insanely loud and terrifying sound and music throughout the movie.. Our hearts were in our mouths lol.. My brother said "this is better than being at the cinema" lol.. Prior to watching the movie I also demoed some clips (opening scene of Unbroken and opening scene of Dunkirk..) again the performance, dynamics are at a calibre I could never have imagined.. So much headroom tons of it.. That much that I will never use these beauties to their full potential..

    Sorry but had to share that quick experience lol..[emoji4][emoji106]
     
  9. Ringnut

    Ringnut
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    Welcome to the world of DIYSG ;)
     
  10. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Highly addictive world more like as I'm planning on building a mini marty subwoofer next lol [emoji23][emoji106] Happy New Year to you and family Jon [emoji106]
     
  11. Ringnut

    Ringnut
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    And to you and yours M. :smashin:
     
  12. nlpearman

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    What are you diving your HTM-12's with?
     
  13. mkohman

    mkohman
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    These speakers are very efficient 97db, they don't need much power and a decent AVR will be more than capable to drive them, however I have separates (Processor and Power Amp) , I always have and that's just my personal preference. Why do you ask? Are you looking to delve into the DIY route?
     
  14. nlpearman

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    I already have: I've built Fusion 8 towers and center with Volt 6 surrounds. I'm running them with an old Onkyo 606 and, although I'm fine with the sound and they get plenty loud, I'm doing the usual AVS thing and wondering if I need to upgrade the AVR to get better dynamics or lower noise floor or...?

    Since you mentioned the dynamics in your fun mini-not-review story, I wondered if you were using just an AVR.
     
  15. mkohman

    mkohman
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    That's awesome.. Bet they sound brilliant [emoji106].. Don't get me wrong when I say this.. I am not knocking Onkyo as I have owned a few of their AVR's and their processor.. They are fabulous for their price but I would personally jump onto a better AVR from the offerings of Marantz or Yamaha with Audyssey XT32 at the least... You don't need to rush this as your speakers sound brilliant as you said but what your really looking for is an AVR with better room correction and some more amplification for headroom.. If you can stretch your budget then even an AVR from Arcam or Anthem which in my opinion have the best room correction softwares for home cinema systems.. Hope this helps.. [emoji106]
     
  16. nlpearman

    nlpearman
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    Agreed! Will have to wait for budget reasons but, you're spot on.
     
  17. mkohman

    mkohman
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    No worries at all.. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need to ask anything else... If there is anything I can assist with in relation to all this, then I'll be happy to do so [emoji4][emoji106]
     
  18. mkohman

    mkohman
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    My DIYSG Review:

    I initially was going to wait a couple of months before I wrote this review but after watching "Blade Runner 2049" I was dying to come and write this review [​IMG] ...

    Before I get into any of that I want to start off with stating that my previous speakers (XTZ Cinema Series) were no slouch. I was extremely satisfied with their performance and had been using them in my home theatre to watch movies for just over 2 yrs. I came across DIYSG by luck really as a recommendation from a fellow forum member @Ringnut who introduced me to the website and gave me a world of information and sharing his experience in building his very own speakers.. Once I started reading up about it I was extremely intrigued and wanted to discover this new world (for me anyway). I was sceptical at the same time may I add. However, emailing @Erich H back and forth (sometimes 4-5 times a day) I was convinced that this was the route I wanted to take , to experiment.

    May I add to the above what a fantastic guy Erich is for being patient, sharing his knowledge and replying to my emails promptly with true and honest opinion and advice. After several emails and discussing my requirements etc, Erich recommended the HTM-12's which I also found very convenient as it was the exact size I was looking for to go behind my AT screen / Baffle Wall.

    Delivery was prompt and the packaging was a work of art thanks to Erich. Truly has to be seen to believe what effort and dedication Erich put's into the packaging in order to ensure everything arrives safe and sound at the other end. I can't move forward without mentioning the ready assembled crossover boards which are also a work of art in it's own thanks to Matt @mtg90 . Beautifully assembled and rather compact for this size speakers.. Thank you.

    Now onto the good stuff lol [​IMG] .. I have only watched a hand full of movies with these beauties in action (probably 30 hrs or so) including movies and quick demos of clips I am familiar with. All I can say is that these are hands down the best speakers I have owned in my setup and heard in my home cinema, period!

    As I said before my previous speakers were no slouch and these are hands down better in every way...

    The opening scene in The Fate of The Furious (Fast and Furious 8) , absolutely amazing, the roaring of the engines at the beginning of the race, the crowd in the b/g cheering them on, the NOS when it kicks in, the explosion of the car once it hits the kerb, speech , music , dynamics were all on point, to the point where I felt like I was watching the movie for the first time.. Also the prison fight scene.... AMAZING!

    Trolls the movie, the kids loved it and I loved it more than them LOL.. Again stunning sound, music and extremely clean dialog throughout the movie.

    IT, all I can say is the dynamics and the performance of the HTM-12's were like nothing I have heard before.. Absolutely mind blowing.. Clean, crisp, from normal level to insanely loud and terrifying sound and music throughout the movie.. Our hearts were in our mouths lol.. My brother said "this is better than being at the cinema" lol.. Prior to watching the movie I also demoed some clips (opening scene of Unbroken and opening scene of Dunkirk..) again the performance, dynamics are at a calibre I could never have imagined.. So much headroom tons of it.. That much that I will never use these beauties to their full potential..

    To top it all off, tonight ... Blade Runner 2049... This movies in itself was just a feast for my eyes and ears.. So much to say but I won't as there probably are people who are yet to watch it so wouldn't want to spoil it for them.. However what I will say is, the soundtrack, the dialog, the dynamics , the scenes where the flying car takes off and fly's in general throughout the movie, the gun shots, the explosions... WOW.. let's leave it at that shall we lol [​IMG]

    Adele Royal Albert Hall concert.. I mean this Bluray always sounded amazing with my previous speakers and with the HTM-12s it sounded even better.. Louder, clearer, more depth.. The crowd sounded amazing, the musicians and Adele was in my room

    Breaking of glass in Watchmen the opening scene, it has never sounded like this before.. The horn tweeters are truly a work of art in its self.. I have not tried toe in and won't for now as it sound absolutely awesome as it is but may experiment in a couple months to see what all the fuss is about..

    Finally , I want to thank Erich and Matt for putting such an amazing speaker / crossover together and giving us the opportunity to experience their amazing sound in our very own homes.. Thank you...

    I can honestly say I would highly recommend the HTM-12's to anyone who may be considering in purchasing/building them ..

    **Special Thanks to @Ringnut , @Liammonty123 and @PsyVision for all their help and guidance throughout my build!**

    I hope you find this review somewhat helpful and wish you all a very happy 2018 [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  19. jason shep

    jason shep
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    Superb work sir, you have done a lovely job with your HTM’s.

    These have really piqued my interest, I was aware of the Seos project but you build has inspired me to have a good look into it, is there an option to build a sealed version ?
     
  20. Ringnut

    Ringnut
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    Great write up M. The enthusiasm with which you write mirrors my first introduction to DIYSG here.

    When you look at DIYSG prices you are at first suspicious that they can be quite that good and that all the five star recommendations on their website might just be fanboy rhetoric, but we (and others) know that’s not true – they really are that good. :)
     
  21. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Thank you Jason, really appreciate it.. I am not sure if you can modify the actual htm-12 as a sealed speaker, however if you pop over to DIYSG and take a look at some of the their models or better yet, email Erich who is very helpful, I'm sure they will hook you up and give you the best advice [emoji106]
     
  22. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Cheers J. I couldn't agree with you more :) and again thank you for all your help and continued support [emoji106][emoji106]
     
  23. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Great review, you sound well pleased with the outcome, congratulations.

    Have to say I secretly enjoy Trolls more than my kids too ;).
     
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  24. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Lol.. @markymiles we have enjoyed it many times with the girls [emoji23].. Thank you for your kind words much appreciated [emoji106]
     
  25. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Hey guys.. It's been a while since I last posted on this thread.. Today I did something that I had been intending on doing for some time.. Well ever since I finished the HTM-12 build really..

    So... the HTM-12's have always been firing directly to the MLP with no toe in and due to how I built my baffle wall, the tweeters on the HTM-12's have always been approx 1.5 feet above ear level when sat on the couch in the MLP.

    Today I had some free time and I had previously ordered some rubber feet (same ones I used to isolate my sofa for the ButtKicker) and as they had arrived today, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to re position and experiment with some toe in.

    I didn't want to permanently fix the rubber feet to the speaker cabinets so I used a good quality double sided tape and mounted 4 x rubber feet on top of each speaker cabinet.. I then turned them upside down and measured from the floor up to the middle of the CD and waveguides.. It was exactly the same measurement as my ear height from the floor at my MLP.. both at 38 inches.. This worked out perfectly.. So now I have the HTM-12's with the tweeters bang at ear level and the 12" mids slightly above ear level when seated (approx 1 foot above)...

    Quick test revealed a slightly different sound.. I was surprised and happy at the same time... I mean don't get me wrong there was absolutely no I'll effect or complaints about how they sounded before but I believe that this type of CD tweeters and waveguides being at ear level or as close to makes a huge difference in how they disburse the high frequencies.. Result was awesome! Highs sound slightly cleaner and the Mids sound slightly punchier and fuller.. I will re run Anthem Room Correction (ARC) and see what the results show and if it further adds to the sound as I have technically changed their positions and the ports are now positioned differently.

    I then wanted to experiement with toe-in, to see if this would further enhance how they sound.. This process took me almost 2 hrs to get them sounding their best to me.. Again the result is a wall of sound with seemless and effortless integration of surrounds... I tried several degrees of toe-in and found that slightly toe-in the left and right channel sounded better than a huge amount of toe-in.. I have attached some pictures but may be a little difficult to make out what's happening, however I'm sure you'll get the idea :)

    The moral of the story is, I am a firm believer in toe in even if its just a little bit and also having the tweeters at ear level.. Hope this helps someone out there and hope you enjoyed my experience which I wanted to share with you guys :)

    IMG_20180307_154703348.jpg IMG_20180307_154710063.jpg IMG_20180307_170914479.jpg IMG_20180307_183436128.jpg IMG_20180307_183445147.jpg IMG_20180307_183455543.jpg IMG_20180307_183530029.jpg IMG_20180307_183411811.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  26. neo_2009

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  27. Ashmanuk

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    They look really cool [emoji16][emoji106] thank you for the update, also would be good to hear your thoughts on the best and worst music/films you've heard so far.
     
  28. The Dreamer

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    I’m so happy you’ve posted this..... my baffle wall is angled a few degrees either side of centre, so my HTM-12s will be naturally toed in a little. And like you, I’ll be mounting my HTM-12s inverted - if I’d built the wall to accept them the ‘right way up’ I wouldn’t have had room for subwoofers underneath. Really pleased with your results, hopefully I can expect similar.
     
  29. PsyVision

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    a) Do you think a baffle wall with angled side walls is better than a flat wall with toe-in?

    b) If you build angled side walls, how much flat wall should you have either side of the speaker?

    Attached is a quick CAD of some wall designs. The left design has a 20cm panel to the side of the left speaker and 0 to the right, with a toe of 14 degrees (less than the Dolby guidelines). The design on the right has a 10cm panel on the left of the speaker but with a 20 degree angle to the MLP which is more inline with Dolby. Neither of these have any gap to the right of the speaker before the "hinge/fold" in the wall.

    speaker wall.png

    Edit: The red lines are the screen edges (extended obviously)

    Edit 2: My MLP is probably a bit further forward too.

    This has a little toe and not to dissimilar to above:

    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...baffle-wall-build-using-beyma-tpl-150h-8.html

    This design has quite wide walls but its a much bigger room:

    Photo by mblair104

    Final thought, the angle from the MLP can also be different to the angle of toe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  30. mkohman

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    I hope you do and wish you all the best.. Do let us know how you get on [emoji106]
     

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