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DIY ISF Calibration

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by stroppygoblin, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    Right. First of all these thread is in no way trying to put the wonderful ISF guys out of work or belittle the talents they have - If I could get £250 approved from the Finance manager after spending £2k on a new screen, I'd have them round in a shot.

    However, I am interested to know what are the factors that differ between the same Plasma model in different homes? If i knew the setting used on someones plasma that was the same model as mine and had been ISF'd why could I not apply those same settings to my own. Even if there were some differing factors (colour of walls, lighting, etc) surely I would see some improvement over the default - even if it were not as perfect as it could be?

    Would anybody be willing to share their ISF'd settings (I can appreciate why not as you have forked out the £250 - however you have the perfect setup whilst everyone else just gets an 'improved one'

    Comments please....
     
  2. jinkyjim

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    nice idea, could save a lot of people £250, hope the ISF guys dont read this, LOL
     
  3. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    One problem, every display is set up individualy to get it to look right when leaving the factory.
    So one sets settings are irrelavent to the next set.
     
  4. Mep

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    having seen Piers in action I wouldn't dare try and do it myself!
     
  5. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    Like I said, this isn't intended to lose them any business. Thats why I put DIY in the title, it would be like me buying someone elses bespoke kitchen and installing it in my own home. The original would be specifically tailored to fit and mine would be a reproduction of the original, a bit rough where it didn't fit exactly. However it would still look better than the old one that was there originally.
     
  6. gizlaroc

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    You could do more harm than good though, you need to do each set individualy, simple as that.
     
  7. dilsher

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    Could YOU be a Michealangelo or a Da Vici without training????

    main reasons are

    No two plasmas are the same..even from same company and even if same model...
    You need thousands of pounds worth of expensive measuring equipment...
    Each input configuration is different on diferent plasmas..
    Room environment is measured, so no two rooms will ever ever be the same...
    It also needs a trained eye to spot imperceptible things otherwise..
    the hidden service menus are for technicians and experts, not you and I...

    Having said this you can use a calibration disc to get some of the way there.

    Just one of those things - leave the science and art of calibration to those who deal with it every day as technicicans and artists...
     
  8. Moncs

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    Why dont you buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD which allows you to calibrate your set, obvioulsy not to the same standard as Gordon and Peirs however it is a good start.

    I got mine from www.blahdvd.com for £12
     
  9. Costas

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    Stroppygoblin

    I am among those who will do as much as they can by DIY and had good results by using discs like the DVE and AVIA. However, you will NEVER be able to adjust correctly the key parameters of Colour Temperature and Colour Management. The ISF trained personnel having the right calibration equiment is the only solution.

    When Piers did my 434 back in March he recorded a good pre-ISF calibration set up I had done with DVE/AVIA. I was quite happy with what I had but after Piers's calibration ..it is just pefect (who says the Pioneer does not do perfect black? ha)! I had originally left the CT and CM at Mid and 0 and this is where the whole value of the calibration comes from... The professional gray scale colour temperature tracking and adjument is something that makes ISF calibration totally worth it. I resisted long enough myself but I now have no hesitation at all to recommend that you talk to Piers!

    What we said earlier about ther electronics being different from one plasma to another is right.. plus the fact that differences also exist among the various inputs on the plasma. Colour Management setting will most likely have some different values between ..say. ..Input 1 and Input 3!
     
  10. Sulis

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    Dammit, dilsher, I understood every word of that post - are you going soft on us, or what? :)
     
  11. dilsher

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    oh jeez..i been rumbled at last!

    git you!
     
  12. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    Hmm it apears that some of you have missed the point :lesson:

    I'm aware of the fact that to achieve "The best possible result" it should be done by experts, I am also not implying that I am as good as Piers or other experts.

    What I am saying is that for the same model and manufacturer, disregarding ambient environment (which I KNOW has a bearing) using the same settings as an ISF'd set should (IMHO) give a better result than the standard settings. Is it the best for the TV - No of course not, Is it as good as sitting for hours with the DVE disk (which by the way I have bought a copy of - Thanks Piero :hiya: ) - I don't know maybe yes, maybe no.

    Lets remember what we are talking about here, It's setting values in software not hitting things with chisels or mixing explosives, I agree to the uninitiated this could cause problems, but I cannot see that using values confirmed to give good results for the same make and model could be damaging.

    I would love to hear Piers comment on this. :hiya:

    To finish, I'm not looking for advice ie "Don't do this it will cause the end of the world" or "leave it to the experts". I raised the issue to see what people thought, and to discuss wether or not it was feasible.
     
  13. dilsher

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    oh its feasible allright stroppy...i am sure pple wont mind putting up theirs here..i can't cos mine is with a scaler...
     
  14. Ekko Star

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    It's like a bespoke tailored suit, what is right for one person is not for another.

    Yes you can take the settings and simply transpose them across to another set but that doesn't mean they are right for that set. Just as taking someone else's cut and hoping it will fit just as well on you or near as damn it. It won't.

    You're assuming that every model out of the box is almost the same as each other. In which case the base model needs to be very consistent, which we all know isn't.

    Or think of it like a TV tuner. The TV will scan and store the strongest signals it can find. However, the fine tuning is left for you to control to get the best picture for your area. If you transpose those fine tunings to somebody else in another area that doesn't mean they are getting the best for them now does it ?
     
  15. owain_thomas

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    Here's a good example. I've not had my TV ISF'd but when I get a plasma I'm sure I will. I've calibrated my CRT TV using AVIA. Now, my lounge can cary quite a bit during the day (as can most people's) and when I have in the past calibrated my set during daylight it's been way off when I've rechecked it at night. So that's the same set in the same room and it's wrong a lot of the time - how can you possibly hope that copying someone else's settings is going to get you any nearer to having a well setup screen in your room???
     
  16. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    SO what you are saying is that you are going to pay £250 for a calibration that is correct for the ONE time of day it was calibrated at? :eek: :devil:
     
  17. Enquirer

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  18. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    Actually Ekko I'm assuming nothing, I merely postulate the question. What I said was: "I am interested to know what are the factors that differ between the same Plasma model in different homes"
     
  19. stroppygoblin

    stroppygoblin
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    Let's stay on target here... This thread is not about how to get the best picture on your plasma. It is a question of:

    "In general, If I copied the ISF'd settings from the same model would I see a better picture over the standard settings?"

    If the answer to this question is Yes, we can then take this one step further and try and get an idea of "How much of an improvement would there be?"

    We all know that the out of box settings for most plasmas are not suitable for the home, they are designed for showrooms. If the answer to Q1 above is yes and the answer to 2 is "On average 10-20 % better (for arguments sake, then we potentially have something very valuable to the community. In theory we could start a settings library for each make and model that would give the average user a simple way to improve their PQ. Yes it could be better, but it's a good start.
     
  20. Ekko Star

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    Yes assuming the standard settings of each identical model were very similar to begin with, that would be broadly logical. Standard settings are not the same, not withstanding room conditions also due to manufactured component tolerances etc etc No two sets are the same out of the box.

    DVE and Avia will help you to broadly calibrate it. An authorised person will calibrate that *particular* set to get the very best out of it. At the end of the day we are talking very fine and particular adjustments when ISF'd.
     
  21. chedmaster

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    presactly, machines/techies or watever at panasonic calibrate the set roughly, and call those settings zero (or 50 i.e. in the middle). so for you zero may be 10 on the same setting for someone else.
     
  22. owain_thomas

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    No, as I understand it as long as your display device can have more than one preset you can have it calibrated in both daylight and in the dark. this may cost a bit more, I'm not sure. Even if I could only have one calibration I'd pick the evening one as thats when I watch most films.

    The point I'm making is that I find it hard to understand why you think copying settings from a different display, in a different room is going to help you get yours looking better???
     
  23. absthechatter

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    And if you think of the extremely long LG thread.........
    People were complaining of poor pictures, others gave their settings these were copied and the majority stated what an improvement they got in picture quality. Also those who used the DVE disk all over the country and in other countries came up with very similar settings.

    Saying that, these only involve some changes and obviously don't go into the service menus so would not really be anything like an ISF.

    But if you get even 1% improvement by playing with other peoples settings, it's got to be worth it. At least it's free, I have spent a fortune on cables and accessories just to squeeze that tiny bit extra out of my setup!!
     
  24. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    If you did it would purely be luck. The answer more times than not would be NO!

    They are set up from the factory individualy, go to any big show where they are using a wall of plasmas and you will see just how different each set is, they are ridiculously out, some of them have heavy green push, others have too much red etc. etc.
    It is not until you see a wall of 20 identical panels showing 20 identical images that you really see how out they are!

    Problem is alot of the prople complaining about poor picture etc. usually have the vasics way out, not greyscale etc. So sharing white level, black level and sharpness settings can make big differences.
     
  25. dilsher

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    boy oh boy - i will PM Gordon and get him in here!
     
  26. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Guys:

    The brightness and contrast controls may change if you want to watch during bright lighting daylight. However the point of ISF is to get accurate settings for quality viewing. If you think you're going to get high quality viewIng with daylight streaming in to your room then I suggest you don;t call me or Piers.......I suggest to my clients that if they feel they want to see more dark detail in that sort of situation then they select an alternate preset to the one I've calibrated or turn the brightness up then put it back once they want to get serious.....The new Pioneers plasma's that are about to come out will have ISF day and ISF night presets that can only be set and calirbated by guys like me and Piers. I would prefer to name these ISF broken and ISF correct modes myself...but hey, I'm just being pedantic.

    It's actually an interesting question that has been raised. There is a thread on this forum somewhere which has a list of ISF settings for a Pioneer plasma. If you applied them to everyone elses plasma would it look better.....well perhaps but I'm not sure. You see it really is dependant on the state of the display, the state of the sources how the unit is viewed and also who did the calibration....yes, it's true....not all calibrators are created equal.....shock. There are many ways to skin a cat.


    For instance....I tend to ask folk what channels they watch on Sky or digital. If they aren't about I'll look to see their favourites. That way I can decide how much, if any, noise reduction might be applicable. If someone watches the footie then a little might be worthwile but if they are a Corrie/News fan it might not as it basically removes all HF detail. I show the customer(it's their screen after all). For me NR should always be off....I don't watch football. For others though with certain plasma's they may find the presence of some mosquito or mpeg block noise quite unnacceptable.....and that's just one control.....

    I think if you got folk to post their basic DVE/AVIA settings and what preset these were arrived at you'd probably get a pretty good idea of how varied even these settings can be from display to display...or perhaps it'd show remarkable consitency, in which case everyone could save £20 buying the discs.....the advanced RGBCMY and greyscale stuff I know doesn't wind up the same on every display though....at least not the ones I've come across.

    I am in now way offended by your idea. I do think that buying a set up disc is a more reliable way to consistently get superior performance tailored to your own system though, rather than copying someone else settings.

    All the best,

    Gotta go get a beer at the hotel bar....and this dial up line is about a £100 A SECOND I THINK......

    G
     
  27. dilsher

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    See guys? Im sooo mighty ..I call his highness Gordy of da ISF Magic - and he appears!

    Thank me laters!
     
  28. Piers

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    Nice reply from Gordon, particularly as we have both been at CEDIA UK this week, hence my recent silence - Gordon evidently has more stamina than me!

    Normal service resumes next week!
     
  29. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    Have any of you calibrated a PV500 yet, can you get much out of them?
     
  30. Piers

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    I've done a quick set-up of a PV500 but haven't done a full ISF job on one yet. The quick set-up resulted in a big improvement compared to the "out of the box" settings, and it then looked good but there may be better to be got from them. Sadly, the PV500 appears to be as anti-calibrator as the Viera's. Difficult access to the menus that enable us to set greyscale, inappropriate default settings that kick in when you do manage to access the service menu and as a result I don't much want to calibrate them.
     

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