Disney+ 4K, really?

gibbletts

Active Member
That's what I was trying to say, but he seemed to suggest wired gives better picture quality regardless.
You're right mate it's total waffle, the fact is there's no streaming provider that needs more than 50 mbit top whack so it really makes no difference as long as the WiFi is stable, if you're streaming over a nas that's a different conversation.
 

KBD

Well-known Member
so long as you can maintain that 15Mbps
Try watching an Apple+ program on a UHD Apple-TV, it will pull down a lot more than that!


wired is generally better and not subject to contention (which will impact speed) or interference etc.
It's always better if you're moving large amounts of data.


Data is data, the tv decoder doesnt care if it arrived over wifi or a wire,
Wouldn't you agree that encrypted data over Wi-Fi is slower than unencrypted data on Ethernet?
As mentioned, the most data that's going to move is 50 Mbps, but it just moves faster when it's unencrypted.


I would say for a lot of people wired is probably the better option.
I would as well, but I just didn't type it that way.


there's no streaming provider that needs more than 50 mbit top whack so it really makes no difference
Well, I'm going to make the comment one more time & then I'm out.
You folks really should just test this for yourself.
I consistently get more data moving over Ethernet than I do Wi-Fi, even if the connection speed tests the same.
Before someone comments my Wi-Fi isn't stable, it's 802.11AC & the Wi-Fi access point & modem are all one unit, which is right next to all the devices I'm using for streaming. they're in the same shelf under the TV.

add:
I only tested with UHD sources, because the data moved with HD just isn't significant enough to make a difference.
Don't rely on the speedtest or the connection speed to make you falsely believe one is faster than the other, test the datastream.
 
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Nutty667

Active Member
Wouldn't you agree that encrypted data over Wi-Fi is slower than unencrypted data on Ethernet?
As mentioned, the most data that's going to move is 50 Mbps, but it just moves faster when it's unencrypted.
Slower? No.
Slightly higher latency? Yes. But higher latency is irrelevant when streaming video. Latency doesn't mean the thoughput isn't as high.

100Mbit ethernet moves 100mbits in 1 second.
100Mbit wifi moves 100mbits in 1 second.
The data rate is the same, and that's all that matters.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Try watching an Apple+ program on a UHD Apple-TV, it will pull down a lot more than that!

Ok, but even at 50Mbps that's still fine for a good WiFi connection, particularly if a WiFi speed test is reporting north of 200Mbps on the TV.

It's always better if you're moving large amounts of data.

Yes, don't disagree there :)

Wouldn't you agree that encrypted data over Wi-Fi is slower than unencrypted data on Ethernet?
As mentioned, the most data that's going to move is 50 Mbps, but it just moves faster when it's unencrypted.

No wouldn't agree; the encryption is transparent on devices. It doesn't nominally send any more data being encrypted, and if the underlying bitrate of the stream is 50Mbps it's not going to be any faster. It might take a fraction of a second to establish the encryption handshake but that will be lost in the buffering process.

The underlying stream will be encrypted anyway.

You folks really should just test this for yourself.
I consistently get more data moving over Ethernet than I do Wi-Fi, even if the connection speed tests the same.

I have done, particularly before I got my adapter and also have Apple TV. Quite happy to test again if you want to point to some content to check. Which values are you checking?
 

KBD

Well-known Member
UHD-Apple-TV: Aquaman (Dolby Vision - Dolby ATMOS)

Ethernet:
1651062587225.png


Wi-Fi (distance from WAP, 10 centimeters):
1651062658096.png


As you can see, there's almost 8-1/2 Mbps difference in a speedtest between the two methods.
 

Nutty667

Active Member
Are you sure you don't have those the wrong way around? For ethernet to have a higher ping than WIFI is very odd.

It doesn't make any difference though, Apple TV max bit rate is like 20Mbps.. both connections should have no trouble with it.
 

KBD

Well-known Member
UHD-Apple-TV can run at 30 Mbps & even peaks up to 50, but I've only seen that with an Apple+ original series & only over Ethernet. The picture quality cannot be seen different from a UHD blu-ray disc in my experience.
The server was the same for both screenshots, I ran the speedtest while the film was on Wi-Fi, then swapped to Ethernet, went back to the film & did the test again just by pressing the Go button.

They're out of order per the sequence I actually used, but that's because the Ethernet one was just in the clipboard, so I pasted it first.

Even AirPlay on my LG-CX can get 30 Mbps for an Apple+ series, but it's also connected via Ethernet.
Via Wi-Fi it will drop to 20 Mbps or less.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I have an LG CX and Disney +
To start with , you could plainly see the quality was lower on the MCU movies and I had a lot of buffering , the quality of service will throttle down in order to keep the program going in the case of a weak or fluctuating Wi Fi reception.

The big issue in my home is the amount of smartphones and tablets competing for the wi fi signal.

My fix , a cheap Netgear WAC124 hardwired to my router and set up as an access point with an SSID at 5ghz that only The LG CX has access too , and its right behind it.
Job done , quality is much better and no buffering.

I tried hardwiring , but on the LG its only 100mbps and sometimes it doesn't work at all without a reboot , this is a known LG ethernet port thing , google it !

One problem with disney + and MCU that I havent fixed yet is the credits shrink down to a PIP at the end so it can suggest what to watch next , this means you miss the credit cut scenes ..... anyone know how to stop that from happening ?
 

gunner84

Distinguished Member
UHD-Apple-TV can run at 30 Mbps & even peaks up to 50, but I've only seen that with an Apple+ original series & only over Ethernet. The picture quality cannot be seen different from a UHD blu-ray disc in my experience.
The server was the same for both screenshots, I ran the speedtest while the film was on Wi-Fi, then swapped to Ethernet, went back to the film & did the test again just by pressing the Go button.

They're out of order per the sequence I actually used, but that's because the Ethernet one was just in the clipboard, so I pasted it first.

Even AirPlay on my LG-CX can get 30 Mbps for an Apple+ series, but it's also connected via Ethernet.
Via Wi-Fi it will drop to 20 Mbps or less.

What's you internet speed package?

For me I have 350 broadband, but speedtest tops out at about 380mbps, my wifi is stable and is plenty enough to stream 4k content.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
UHD-Apple-TV can run at 30 Mbps & even peaks up to 50, but I've only seen that with an Apple+ original series & only over Ethernet. The picture quality cannot be seen different from a UHD blu-ray disc in my experience.
The server was the same for both screenshots, I ran the speedtest while the film was on Wi-Fi, then swapped to Ethernet, went back to the film & did the test again just by pressing the Go button.

They're out of order per the sequence I actually used, but that's because the Ethernet one was just in the clipboard, so I pasted it first.

Even AirPlay on my LG-CX can get 30 Mbps for an Apple+ series, but it's also connected via Ethernet.
Via Wi-Fi it will drop to 20 Mbps or less.

Are you looking at the bitrate in the actual film though?

Your method seems to be:

Apple TV Speed\Bitrate = ISP Speed (which you haven't said) - Speedtest Result (for given connection)

In most scientific contexts this would be deemed an inaccurate test methodology as there is no control. Unless you are isolating your devices and just have the two, the rest of network will still be doing what it wants including downloading stuff. Additionally, speedtests are notorious for impacting some network services more than others.

Added to that your ping being so high also really invalidates that figure. My pings are generally consistent within 10% of themselves, the fact it has gone high will often cause an impact that lowers your overall download speed.

Airplay will route from the Internet to the device and then back to the TV so it's always going to be using WiFi (In this case To and From the device). At that point when you use WiFi on the Apple TV you are then contending for airtime with the actual Airplay source. (To, From and the Device) If any of these are on the limits of the WiFi bandwidth connection then it will drop the bitrate.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
I have an LG CX and Disney +
To start with , you could plainly see the quality was lower on the MCU movies and I had a lot of buffering , the quality of service will throttle down in order to keep the program going in the case of a weak or fluctuating Wi Fi reception.

What size is the CX? I have a 77 and a 55 and the 77 seems a lot more flakey from a hardwired network point of view. :(

For a given bitrate though say on Netflix the top one is around 15Mbps (but even if Apple at 30Mbps) so long as your WiFi can keep up and that includes the contention from other devices, then the PQ is not going to differ between wired and wireless connection.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
For a given bitrate though say on Netflix the top one is around 15Mbps (but even if Apple at 30Mbps) so long as your WiFi can keep up and that includes the contention from other devices, then the PQ is not going to differ between wired and wireless connection.

Ive got a 55 , and cannot watch a movie ( or the ladies in the house watch greys anatomy etc. ) without the ethernet locking to 1.2 kbps .... yup , thats kilobits ..... seems to be the nature of the bug.
The TV buffers , and disney plus goes to a fireworks display.
A reboot of the TV fixes it temporarily.

So it was either take a potshot with a USB to gigabit network adaptor and see if it works,
( No one seems to know for definite which ones work ), or get an access point.

The Main Router is in the Office where the Missus works from home ( 250 mbps ) and is untouchable on pain of death, and down at the TV where the ladies tend to gather with their chat groups open ready to discuss the dramas as they unfold on the TV , the speed can drop to as low as 6-8 mbps.
Tested with speedtest on the TVs browser.

The Netgear WAC124 exceeds the network specs of the TV and is cheap , and after setup , with only the TV able to connect to it , we have 200+ mbps to the TV , so works a charm.

That's my solution and I don't get bothered by the ladies whilst they are watching, so fine by me.
 
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ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Ive got a 55 , and cannot watch a movie ( or the ladies in the house watch greys anatomy etc. ) without the ethernet locking to 1.2 kbps .... yup , thats kilobits ..... seems to be the nature of the bug.
The TV buffers , and disney plus goes to a fireworks display.
A reboot of the TV fixes it temporarily.

So it was either take a potshot with a USB to gigabit network adaptor and see if it works,
( No one seems to know for definite which ones work ), or get an access point.

The Main Router is in the Office where the Missus works from home ( 250 mbps ) and is untouchable on pain of death, and down at the TV where the ladies tend to gather with their chat groups open ready to discuss the dramas as they unfold on the TV , the speed can drop to as low as 6-8 mbps.

The Netgear WAC124 exceeds the network specs of the TV and is cheap , and after setup , with only the TV able to connect to it , we have 200+ mbps to the TV , so works a charm.

That's my solution and I don't get bothered by the ladies whilst they are watching, so fine by me.

Yep, I wonder if there was some sort of hardware revision as the CX77 I got from JL around 3 (ish) months before performs very differently to the "newer" CX55 that I got from Costco.

I wondered if it was just between model sizes but you have confirmed you get the same issue with CX55. Some users who have swapped their TV's out have found the issue to be suddenly fixed with the replacement model. I seem to have an OK panel on my 77 and it would be a PITA to swap.

I currently use these in both TVs in USB port 1 from memory.

Amazon product

On the 77 the Netflix in app speed test is normally around the 80Mbps mark which is lower than it should be on, on the 55 it's around the 200Mbps mark. I would need to check the normal Ethernet port but it was often lower on the 77 from memory. WiFi seems to be a lot more consistent though my 77 is at the furthest point from the WiFi so didn't get a brilliant signal hence wiring it.

I also noticed if I used Cloudflare DNS (with VM) then it would give me random IP addresses in France for things like Spotify and Netflix and cause all sorts of issues. Spotify would drop connections and Netflix would sometimes drop to around 1Mbps bitrate (Pixel city :)) via wired connection. Changing the DNS forward lookup back to Google for me fixed it instantly as that at the time worked properly with VM caching and routes.
 

KBD

Well-known Member
The Cable Matters claims 480 Mbps, which is what I'm using with the UHD Firestick.

the PQ is not going to differ between wired and wireless connection.
I disagree.


Airplay will route from the Internet to the device and then back to the TV so it's always going to be using WiFi (In this case To and From the device).
The WiFi to the Apple device is minimal, only for controlling playback.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
The Cable Matters claims 480 Mbps, which is what I'm using with the UHD Firestick.

480 Mbps is the upper limit for USB2, and the TVs in question have USB2 only, not sure if that is what the firestick has but unless it has USB3 it will have that limitation. By the time you have considered overheads and duplex you end up at around half the speed, hence why TVs and such do around the ~200Mbps or so.

I disagree.

Enlighten me then, how for a given playback bitrate as reported in the player does the PQ improves from wireless to wired?

Just to be clear this isn't WiFi (or wired) deciding it will drop back to a lower bitrate, which will clearly affect the picture. It is a network connection whose type will be transparent to the playback client that is stable enough to play a full 15Mbps/30Mbps stream.

The WiFi to the Apple device is minimal, only for controlling playback.

Not for video, it isn't. Some streaming services might go direct it depends on support.
 
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ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
So just streaming Netflix UHD "Is it cake?" in Dolby Vision. If you press i on a LG CX you will see the bitrate and resolution. Mine typically starts at 1440 and 7 ish Mbps. Within 10-15 seconds it will ramp up through some in-between bitrates and end up 15.2Mbps and 2160. That's the top rate for Netflix at the moment.

However, if you look at the ethernet traffic actually flowing to that device, then depending on the playback client it can vary.

Netflix on CX - all over the place, choppy up to 46Mbps down to 0Mbps
Apple on CX - Long Way Up a more steady 30Mbps but still has a bit of a rest

Apple 4K TV box on Long Way Up (at same time) up to 200Mbps, then has a longer rest ...
 

Nutty667

Active Member
That's because streaming video isn't a constant flow of continuous data. It's chunks of video that is seamlessly played together.
Each chunk might be 8MB or so, and it may download really quickly, and then network activity effectively stops until it has space to download the next chunk.

Depending on speed of your connection and the servers hosting the content, you may get bursty, Fast/Stop activity or more steady slower continuous pulling.

The average rate will still be around 15Mbits however for top stream.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Yes agree but was trying to point out it varies by service iPlayer is a bit more consistent.

Also for WiFi because it can burstable it's less impacted by something contending for airtime.
 

KBD

Well-known Member
how for a given playback bitrate as reported in the player does the PQ improves from wireless to wired?
I already have, but you want to disqualify the factual evidence.
Anyway, I'm done here. I've showed the evidence, my work here is done.


The average rate will still be around 15Mbits however for top stream.
I was going to use your rude turn of phrase in return when you originally confronted me on this thread, but it seems to have been edited out. Anyway, your comment is patently incorrect.
Remember, we are commenting about UHD content.


Some streaming services might go direct it depends on support.
Not in the case of streaming Apple-TV from an iPhone or iPad.
It's a distraction from my comment about AirPlay anyway & irrelevant in the way I was using it.


You folks have a nice weekend. The facts speak for themselves.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
I already have, but you want to disqualify the factual evidence.
Anyway, I'm done here. I've showed the evidence, my work here is done.
What facts have you shown, two Speedtests of your internet connection. That’s conclusive you have a rubbish internet connection.

Nowhere have you demonstrated what the bitrate/speed of your media content playback is.

Go away for the weekend and come back when you have some figures
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Done already, now it's your onus to prove me wrong, which you haven't & can't.
Get the weekend started!


So you have shown your internet speed test twice, what are you using speed how your Apple TV or media player is playing at. The two are not the summation of your network activity
 

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