Disgruntled neighbor does not like CCTV and has threatened with violence.

mushii

Distinguished Member
The difference is between protecting your property and operating a private and intrusive CCTV system.
And I am not sure how this camera layout could be construed as anything but the latter,

The cameras was setup to face both ways so I could see the road (both ways)

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As it extends well beyond the property frontage and if they are F4 or F2.8 cameras it could potentially provide coverage 20 -30m in either direction at least.
 

mushii

Distinguished Member
@whatsmyname please do not think that I am against you protecting your property, I believe that you have every right to do so and I would be upset if my property was being repeatedly damaged and would seek to protect it also. You came here asking for advice and I think that you have received advice and balanced arguments seen from most angles of the situation.

I would put your cameras back up, toed in slightly and wait until you receive a formal complaint in writing or instruction to remove them by an official agency. At that time I would then review their status. My guess is that nobody will actually make a formal complaint and your 'loud' neighbour is just that 'loud and full of bluster'. I think the fact that nobody has complained in several years is an indication of the real situation. The ICO in general has bigger fish to fry and is unlikely to get involved unless it becomes an issue where the Local Authority (or Local Authority Councillors) get involved. I think that is unlikely given the type of individual that you described threatening you, he is unlikely to want to be seen as a 'grass' or 'snitch' by his peers.
 

whatsmyname

Member
Thank you all for contributing to this post. Before this just like many other CCTV operators for domestic use I didn't think to much of "Privacy" in terms of I may well be intruding on it unintentionally. You just assume you can install them and that's that. Nobody cares.

I've decided after long thought I won't be reinstalling the CCTV and one of my reasons for doing so is because of the street layout. It's impossible to not capture or intrude on others privacy while maintaining the level of meaningfulness the images provide on the event of my car or property is attacked.

One thing I did learn from this is amateur/cheap CCTV systems with bullet style cameras which can visibly be seen which direction they are pointing do not pose a threat to people as much as fixed, high quality dome cameras which is not easily visible on which directly they are pointing.

It seems if the user can see where the cameras are pointing they are not as bothered or if they are they will attempt to get out of the shot.

The other perception people have is because the CCTV system I had was nicely and professionally installed with appropriate signage is that you are some sort of "Authority" and out to get anyone that commits a crime which is interesting alone. It was only after speaking to people that they quickly learnt it was a normal house-hold.

Over the past few days Youtube caught my attention with so called "Audits" where folks would go around with a camera in public locations and record images of whatever they can see from a public space. What is interesting is that we are surrounded by CCTV and easily captured on over 50+ cameras a day while we stroll about and nobody blinks an eye. Yet, someone with a camera on a tripod is deemed a terrorist or threat.

I think this applies to domestic also, nobody wants to intrude on privacy but at the same time wants to maintain a level of security.

As said above, I won't be reinstalling the CCTV however what I have done is installed dash cams front and rear of my car which are setup to automatically power on and start recording in the event my car is hit g-sensor. This is more of a discrete approach and does not trigger like the fixed CCTV cameras do.

I've also upgraded the alarm system and taken out House Insurance. - Myself and my partner are deciding on having a portable PTZ camara for inside so we can monitor the inside when we are out and about. Then switch it off when we are home.

For my personal circumstances this seems to be a better approach for the street and the people who live in it maintaining their privacy while keeping my security.

Thank you all.
 

KindredSpirit

Active Member
I would tell the person who complained that I took his views into account and restricted the view of the camera just onto the car. He doesn’t need to know that you haven’t. I asked my neighbou if they wanted me to move the camera but they were happy that it covered their house as well. Cameras at back do not cover other’s back gardens out of consideration for my neighbours. Cameras at front only cover my property and my car.
 

6Antique9

Active Member
Hello to all

I moved into a property on an dead end terrace street almost 6 years ago now (UK, England). I installed some cheap CCTV cameras at the time to protect my property and car. They overlook a public road and path and can clearly see houses on the opposite side of the street. Due to the fact they was analog and low quality and distance at the time you was not able to see through windows so privacy mask simply was not enabled. (In fact, i don't even think the DVR had that feature at the time) I installed a CCTV sign and for many years nobody had any issues.

Due to the fact the CCTV sucked and was looking a little dated I upgraded them to dome vandle proof HIKVISION IP Cameras. The upgrade immediately gave a clear view of the street both ways and most importantly meant that I was able to identify anyone who came to my property or damaged my car. The cameras was setup to face both ways so I could see the road (both ways), my alleyway gate, my property and more importantly, my car. I've attached an image to demonstrate the configuration.

  • Over the years we have had multiple incidents on the street where people have reversed out of the dead end street and have hit our car causing damage (Hit and Run).
  • One of the residents across the road had his car hit twice in one week resulting in the car being written off.
  • Last year my neighbors shed was burgled stealing a bike and tried to take the lawnmower too (too heavy)
  • House had been burgled at the bottom end of the street which resulted in the police asking for CCTV and helping innocent victims be ruled out.
  • The CCTV helped rule out a suspect in a potential homicide (was later ruled suicide)
Last month I purchased a new car and it cost me a ton. I absolutely love the car and it is my pride and joy. However I came outside to discover that it had been bumped into (paint damage, scrape) - I was very upset as I saved a while to buy my first new car. I went through the CCTV to find the culprit but due to discovering it a little late the footage had already been overwritten with new recordings. (My fault, I sucked it up) - I spent the last week thinking how I could improve the view and security to better protect it. I purchased a dash cam with parking g-sensor and installed it into my car.

I then decided to re-position one of the cameras so it could see directly down at the road so I could see the side of my car which was on the road side should anyone hit it in future.

While doing so up a ladder a comment was made to me about "Privacy". - I calmly explained that the CCTV was their to protect my property and car due to it being hit multiple times. The response I then got was "well, its part of life.". I then replied back, "No, its not part of life, especially when you have paid alot of money for something and someone damages it".

This was then followed with the person "shouting" as loud as he could to get his point across about privacy and how he don't like cameras recording him and the fact they could see both ways of the street. I still remained calm and explained everything Im doing I have a right to do. The person then made multiple threats from "I'll just smash your face in" to a more disturbing "I'll petrol bomb your windows with your kids in it" - He then began taking photos of the CCTV and was going to use them to "check" or do whatever. I didn't care. He took the pictures and moved away.

Again, I remained calm and asking why hes acting so irrational. Some neighbors had arrived to look out to see what was happening. To my relief most of not all had quickly taken my side and agreed that they help and nobody has a problem other than this one individual of them being installed. One of the comments from a neighbor which was nice "Them cameras saved my mums car from hit and run, what if my sister got attacked" - After a while friends of the problem person came and tried to calm him down.

Now, the funny thing about this situation is that the individual with the problem lives MUCH further down the street and his neighbors have installed CCTV right next to him. CCTV was also installed at a property directly across from him on my side. I must have counted 3 houses that had decided to install CCTV over the years.

So, why target me? Especially with multiple house holds on the street also installed CCTV. What got him so triggered? - Multiple points was made to the problem individual about expectations and privacy out in public at which point the individual with the problem ignored and continue to shout his point almost asif nothing else matters but his view.

Has anyone else had any experiences like this? I'm still a little on edge after it all happened. I've read about as much I can in regards to the law and home use of CCTV and have tried my absolute best to make sure I stay well within the rules. - I took down the CCTV a few days ago to de-escalate the situation and have tried multiple times to contact the problem individual to help resolve and put it behind closed doors however I learnt from the persons friends that they are still upset/angry and not prepared to do so.

Since removing them I feel a bit off. - I really liked them and now feel my property is a bit vulnerable and if anything is damaged I now have no proof at all. - I've decided I will put them back up and just ignore the problem person and should anything arise in future call the police and let them deal with it.

31d25b40ecfff81de09565ff2572b5462c1d6cac

41-DW9-Pddfp-L-AC-SX425

CCTV
In 2015 I had a neighbours daughter back in to my fence and break a post. She denied it and came round with her thug of a boyfriend. Unfortunately I was in the back garden so my disabled wife answered the door. He threatened her and physically pulled her outside using foul language. F and C. My wife when I found out about it was very distressed. We contacted the police who reported it as public disorder but advised us not to prosecute because he was a violent person. They advised us to fit security cameras, which we did. At the time the law was that if the camera covered outside your boundary you were required to register with the ICO. I did this and sent them a copy of the coverage, they passed it as OK. I was then the administrator. If asked I would have to provide copies of anything asked for for a minimal cost. The law has changed and you are no longer required to register with the ICO. I have had some spurious complaints and have had the police round to check, every time i am cleared. I have in the past supplied footage to the police of crimes. My advice about the threats is to carry your mobile phone with you with the voice recorder on. I had some threats and criminal damage done to my property a coup[le of years ago by a disgruntled neighbour, sadly for them I had my phone on record and the CCTV captured the criminal acts, with sound added. Convicted of criminal damage and public order. Had to pay for the damage to my car £1300, fined and now has a criminal record. He tried the racist remark ploy but with the voice record files this proved false. We still have the system and feel safer for it.
 

the whistler

Active Member
A few weeks ago, a neighbour a few doors away had two cars stolen overnight. I had a knock on the door from a PC who had seem my cctv cameras and had called to ask if my cameras had recorded any suspicious activity.

Slightly off topic, but I presume all these rules and regulations would also apply to vehicle dashcams? But how often do we read that police are appealing for dash cam footage of an incident?
 

6Antique9

Active Member
It is not for the police to ask but you to offer if they don't. After all its about helping solve a crime. I guess that is not popular now by some but would like it if someone offered evidence of who damaged your property or broke in to your house?
 

malford

Active Member
Very interesting reading this thread in regards to ICO & GDPR and feel for you having made the choice not to reinstall your cctv.
I live down a cul de sac of 10 houses and my house is at the very end in a prominent position.
6 years ago ( 2 years before GDPR came in) I installed a Hikvision 8 camera system of which 2 cameras cover the cul de sac.
As part of our Nieghbourhood Watch Scheme every household has access to the cameras via a login using the iVMS app or web browser login directly to my DDNS server, in fact the NHW coordinator applied for an official CCTV Aware street sign warning which is placed as you drive into our road warning everyone.
3 years ago after consulting all neighbours I upgraded The system to Hikvision 4K bullet cameras and a Hikvision Darkfighter ANPR camera with white/black list and the nieghbours are all very happy with it, I even attained the Hikvision installers certification in the process.

The only concern raised before upgrading the system was there to be no PTZ’s because of privacy concerns and The fact you couldn’t see where the camera was pointing.

In the past 2 years the system helped in identifying a pair of burglars and the car used in the process, this was used by the Police and they are never once asked about any data control, in fact they recommended the NHW cameras be set to constant record.

So when everyone is in agreement it makes keeping your neighbourhood secure, just thought I’d share my experience with domestic cctv.
 

P-P-S-S

Well-known Member
Considering the type of neighbour and the large number of incidents that happen there It sound sto me like you'd be better off moving house instead.
 

6Antique9

Active Member
Do you realise what that would entail. Moving because of anti social neighbours impacts on the value of your home sale price. When you sell up you are legally obliged to disclose any information about nuisance neighbours. I read some years ago about a lady who sold her house without disclosing this and two years down the line the buyer sued her and won a claim of £30,000. Then you have to find somewhere that isn't like your old place, that may well be impossible unless you win the lottery and then its not guaranteed. I met some one who lived in a gated estate of houses costing in excess of £1000,000 (1 million) and they had trouble from one of their neighbours children with parents who were selfish and didn't give dam. Sometimes better the devil you know.
 

DrussTheLegend

Active Member
Errr, with comments such as “I'll petrol bomb your windows with your kids in it" I’d probably be discussing with the police rather than avf
Fully Agree.
Absolutely and have thought about this many times BUT. - I figured they are empty threats and even if the police was called nobody is going to be a witness and at that point it becomes my word against them. Believe me, I've pondered about it for days.
Empty threats or not, sounds like the guys is an f'ing lunatic. I'd peronally take zero chances with a nob who says things like that.
 

DrussTheLegend

Active Member
Can anyone else add to this statement? - Increasing sign size, what would the reason be? "Recording to protect my house and car"?

Is there a legal basis for recording your property and car on the street? Such as past crimes?
As a photographer, I know that I (and indeed anyone with a camera) can take photo's of anyone in a public space. You do not require consent. They are not deemed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. If you were capturing anything through someones window or where one would expect to have a resonable expectation of privacy then thats a different story. You are also able to do as you wish with said content so long as you don't defame, profit and possibly some other public use of the images.

I would assume that the same is the case for video but you may wish to check and also put up an appropriate sign stating that the property and its surroundings are being monitored by CCTV. You would need to confirm that though. Citizens advice bureau.

Not sure where you would stand under GDPR with regards to holding the info. It may be irrelevant as there is no personal info involved other than someones likeness. Something to check... again Citizens advice bureau may be able to assist or maybe the Information Commisioners office (ICO).

I'd definately alert the police to the threats though. Even if it is just to make them aware without taking it further for the time being.

best of luck.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
I would assume that the same is the case for video but you may wish to check

No because assumptions get you in trouble. :p

Have a read of the rest of the thread.

But put simply no you cannot just record people on video, you need a legal basis that is compliant with GDPR. Also because of GDPR you have to do certain activities like allow subject access requests.
 

dw89

Active Member
To the OP;

With my personal experience, and listening to what you've written, Id suggest there's a strong 'possibility' the foul-mouthed neighbour 'may' have been someone who has accidentally clipped your car at some stage or something else. Very often certain types of people (esp like that) get angry/violent rather than come clean as a means of deflection/self-protection when they think they may get caught out for something. The shouting/threats is to try to get you to back down. You should, of course, never relent to a bully as, at the end of the day, you cannot 'reason' with an 'unreasonable' person. Your effort to descalate will go completely unoticed by him...he will just think he 'won'....emboldening his behaviour.

Sad but true and you can always spot them...they do the opposite to that of a reasonable person.

Nevertheless, I hope you dont have any further issues.

KR, dw
 

P-P-S-S

Well-known Member
Do you realise what that would entail. Moving because of anti social neighbours impacts on the value of your home sale price. When you sell up you are legally obliged to disclose any information about nuisance neighbours.

What anti social neighbours??? The neighbour had an argument with OP because he did not like the camera being put up because of intrusion to privacy. How does that constitute as anti social neighbour? So no, he OP does not have anything to disclose at this stage.

However, if he does leave it and it develops into an argument, THEN it becomes antisocial behaviour (although even then it is debatable since the guy is opposing the camera).
 

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