Discussing the impact of Brexit

Has, and is Brexit continuing to make life and many things harder, and people poorer in the UK?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 112 82.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 24 17.6%

  • Total voters
    136

psikey

Distinguished Member
On the same logic 'free' shopping bags in the past was paid for via the grocery shop, then UK mobile phone networks have not been subsidising 'free' roaming in Europe. The cost has simply been paid for by users within phone plans without being a separate cost pursuant to EU law. So charging for roaming now is just easy money 😎
Exactly, they haven't slightly reduced the charging plans now they removed roaming. Private business seeking an opportunity to make more money. All you can do is is find a tariff that suits you best it do roam and another tariff if you don't.

EU effectively forced phone companies to not have roaming as part of its drive to be seen as the EU, one nation. They built roaming into the EU tariffs.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
I think he meant that point 4 was our issue in Parliament/Government. The EU themselves didn’t actually have anything to do with that.

Also, I’ve asked before, but who are these “elites” people keep taking about?

When I say elites I mean powerful people often in powerful positions who's voice can be heard wider and more loudly. Generally higher educated types in Politics, Media (TV, Print, Online), Education, Senior Religious Leaders, Funded Activists, Lawyers... Not Brenda who works at the Co-op or Bob the welder or 90% of the people in this country.
 

chalk40

Distinguished Member
Very Interesting article in the FT. Have cut & paste it so can read and is worth to read. I know some cannot always see the content in an FT link.....

The take away line for me .....

"It seems that the best way to improve lives in the UK, according to the government, is not to take back control."

also

"But with power comes some responsibility and you cannot keep making lives worse with a purist notion of Brexit without people noticing."

1631697738413.png


For the first time in the five years since the Brexit referendum, acrimony in the relationship between the EU and the UK shows tentative signs of thawing. Rhetorical hostilities are as fierce as ever of course, but actions speak louder than words and on the ground both sides are quietly moving into damage limitation mode.

Minimising further economic harm will never eliminate the damage already done. The depreciation of sterling after the vote to leave left people in the UK paying more for imports and reducing living standards by 2.9 per cent, according to a new paper in the International Economic Review.

The imposition of controls and checks on goods at the UK border is lowering trade with the EU, just as economists warned. With trade figures heavily distorted by coronavirus and Brexit itself, it is best not to be overly influenced by a single statistic, such as the UK ceasing to be one of Germany’s top 10 trading partners. Instead, the longer-term trends highlighted in UK data show a steady and pronounced drop in UK exports to the EU compared with three years ago, with imports from the continent falling even faster.

So long as we make the trivial assumption that the trade was valuable for producers and consumers alike, throwing sand into its cogs has hurt both sides’ economies and living standards. The vast majority of the pain, of course, is felt in the UK because business with the EU is much more important for Britain than vice versa. From London, it is easy to blame many current ills on Brexit.

Shortages of lorry drivers, care home workers and hospitality staff are rooted in many more issues than Brexit alone, but it is impossible to deny that new restrictions on movement of people and goods from the EU have exacerbated them. These outcomes were the direct result of implementing the referendum result and, as such, probably unavoidable.

The rapid introduction of unnecessary additional restrictions would compound the economic harm. For the time being, Boris Johnson’s government appears to understand this and on Tuesday demonstrated a welcome willingness to go slow on implementing the full border controls that come as part of his deal with the EU. Brexit Briefing Follow the big issues arising from the UK's separation from the EU. Get Brexit Briefing in your in-box every Thursday. Sign up here. During Brexit negotiations, the prime minister predicted that the EU would not impose frictions at the border because German carmakers and Italian prosecco producers would insist on the UK having full access to the EU single market. But given the unequal trading power between the two sides, long after the EU imposed the controls on UK exports, it is London that is hanging back on imposing equivalent measures at the border.

This government fears the public’s response if the imports people love are made more costly and difficult to buy. London first pushed back the imposition of border checks six months ago and has now delayed implementation of full border controls again until summer 2022. It seems that the best way to improve lives in the UK, according to the government, is not to take back control. Goods imports is not the only area where damage limitation is now Brexit policy. UK ministers have allowed businesses to use the EU’s “CE” safety mark to show products meet safety standards for another year, rather than insisting on a new “UKCA” quality and safety certification, avoiding pointless duplication on product standard certification. The longer these easements remain in place, the better off British businesses and consumers will be.

With its delays, the government is belatedly recognising the economic reality of Brexit and — wisely — is holding back. Importantly, this is not all one-sided. Damage limitation appears to be motivating the European Commission’s latest action to calm tensions in Northern Ireland. This month it merely “took note” of the UK government’s unilateral decision to extend “indefinitely” the temporary grace period in the Brexit trade agreement allowing chilled uncooked sausages and similar foods access from Great Britain into Northern Ireland.

So long as there remains scant evidence of a sizeable back door for goods to get into Europe’s single market across Ireland’s open and uncontrolled land border, the EU’s calm reaction to the UK’s failure to impose the Northern Ireland Protocol was judicious and in its own interests. No longer does Brussels need to demonstrate to other member states that leaving the EU comes with hefty costs. The on-the-ground truce is an unstable equilibrium. Yet the longer it lasts, the greater is the chance temporary easements remain without ever being permanent.

The last thing anyone needs now is another highly public negotiation. Temporary regimes that last for decades have been a hallmark of the EU’s history and the more that Brexit can become part of this tradition, the better life will be on both sides of the Channel. Brexit is now largely a sunk cost. It has given its proponents in London the levers of power they sought.

But with power comes some responsibility and you cannot keep making lives worse with a purist notion of Brexit without people noticing. Johnson and the EU are fully entitled to shout about the minor benefits that Brexit brings both sides, but they would be wise to quietly continue with damage limitation on the big stuff.


Or search on

Brexit has become an exercise in quiet damage limitation​

 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Very Interesting article in the FT. Have cut & paste it so can read and is worth to read. I know some cannot always see the content in an FT link.....

The take away line for me .....

"It seems that the best way to improve lives in the UK, according to the government, is not to take back control."

Or search on

Brexit has become an exercise in quiet damage limitation​


Indeed it has. A complete and utter farce, but then we of course are not surprised.

Watched the Tory MP on Newsnight last night embarrassing himself over the new delays as well. It's a desperate scramble to keep blaming the EU and pretending Brexit is anything else but damage limitation now. Whilst this government is in charge anyway.
 

chalk40

Distinguished Member
Indeed it has. A complete and utter farce, but then we of course are not surprised.

Watched the Tory MP on Newsnight last night embarrassing himself over the new delays as well. It's a desperate scramble to keep blaming the EU and pretending Brexit is anything else but damage limitation now. Whilst this government is in charge anyway.

Yes that was toe curling. I often wish I had a quick record thing for those sort of discussions/interviews so that you could paste some of those things to the thread ..... it is very enlightening.

He couldn't form his words it was that unbelievable.

Same for some of the clips they have on Ian King on Sky .... they are not always put on the web site but very interesting.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Yes that was toe curling. I often wish I had a quick record thing for those sort of discussions/interviews so that you could paste some of those things to the thread ..... it is very enlightening.

He couldn't form his words it was that unbelievable.

Same for some of the clips they have on Ian King on Sky .... they are not always put on the web site but very interesting.

Here it is in all it's "glory" :)

Just another drone who doesn't understand the deal we signed either.

 

MSW

Distinguished Member
Remind me why it is we should be subsidising your free cash withdrawals?

Remind me where I said cash withdrawals should be free.

From memory I simply gave an explanation as to why the majority use CM’s and the minority use roaming etc.

However, I have no issue at all about making charges for ATM use.
 

chalk40

Distinguished Member
I don't have twitter or any of that malarkey but took a screen shot of this beauty just mentioned on said Ian King on Sky ...... If you cannot see it .... and I quote....

“It’s ironic,” said one EU diplomat. “They talked about taking back control, but they are letting products into Britain without any controls at all. That’s fine with us.”

@GeorgeWParker

@pmdfoster

1631698765057.png
 
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Erlang168

Active Member
When I say elites I mean powerful people often in powerful positions who's voice can be heard wider and more loudly. Generally higher educated types in Politics, Media (TV, Print, Online), Education, Senior Religious Leaders, Funded Activists, Lawyers... Not Brenda who works at the Co-op or Bob the welder or 90% of the people in this country.
Bob is a builder.
Burn-e is the welder
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Remind me where I said cash withdrawals should be free.

From memory I simply gave an explanation as to why the majority use CM’s and the minority use roaming etc.

However, I have no issue at all about making charges for ATM use.


In respect of Cash Machines, I think 90% of customers use Cash Machines 90% of the time.

I don’t have figures for International ETF’s / Roaming but would imagine usage is significantly less and same for roaming (once a year during a 2 week holiday)

Point being it seams reasonable to offer a service that is free at point of use when so many use it but, not to offer services free a point of use when only the few use them.
 

Erlang168

Active Member
Although at worst the likely benefit is that all users will now see a slow down in phone plan cost increases due to the extra revenue.

At best the extra revenue allows the phone companies the financial leverage to make phone plan costs more competitive.

Upshot being that those who did not use roaming but were paying for it will save money and those who benefited from free roaming will now have to pay for what they use👍🏿
How do you feel about Universal Service Obligation - USO? People who don't benefit from that directly, contribute (pay).

How about Hutchison/Three merging with O2 being prevented?

Is there a place for regulation in the Telco market, or are you a full "free marketeer"?
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Cheers, I think you said something similar about “wage increases” post brexit so pardon me for saying I don’t think your the best barometer.

Awesome. I’m sure those 1m vacancies, when we have essentially full employment in the U.K., will be snapped up,

Although, I don’t actually remember saying we wouldn’t see “wage increases”, but I’m sure you can quote me.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
When I say elites I mean powerful people often in powerful positions who's voice can be heard wider and more loudly. Generally higher educated types in Politics, Media (TV, Print, Online), Education, Senior Religious Leaders, Funded Activists, Lawyers... Not Brenda who works at the Co-op or Bob the welder or 90% of the people in this country.

Thanks, so would you not put our own Eton-educated, former/current newspaper columnist in that same bracket?
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Cheers, I think you said something similar about “wage increases” post brexit so pardon me for saying I don’t think your the best barometer.

What do you think it is, specifically, that’s been implemented as a direct result of Brexit that’s led to some industries having to increase their wages to attract people?
 

MSW

Distinguished Member
How do you feel about Universal Service Obligation - USO? People who don't benefit from that directly, contribute (pay).

How about Hutchison/Three merging with O2 being prevented?

Is there a place for regulation in the Telco market, or are you a full "free marketeer"?

I think business should not be told what service it has to offer for free

You can take that however you wish
 

MSW

Distinguished Member
Awesome. I’m sure those 1m vacancies, when we have essentially full employment in the U.K., will be snapped up,

Although, I don’t actually remember saying we wouldn’t see “wage increases”, but I’m sure you can quote me.

If you telling me you did not say “no hope at all the wages will increase” why would I disagree
 

klaxhu

Member
Ha .... you clever you are :)
And best reply on that thread ofc goes to:


„Freeman a lying c***.
UK Gov turned down SM/CU extended transiton offer in June 2020...in favour of "border facilitation" (favouring EU exporters & world smugglers)..EU not aggressive for applying TCA on agreed date 1/1/21. Not EU fault UK still not ready
twitter.com/vivamjm/status…“
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Is that not straw man when considered against the point that was being made

Nope, it isn’t when Johnson is literally an Eton-Educated former/current newspaper columnist, when Psikey described “Elites” as;

“When I say elites I mean powerful people often in powerful positions who's voice can be heard wider and more loudly. Generally higher educated types in Politics, Media (TV, Print, Online)..”

Hence why I asked who these “Elites” where who tried to thwart Brexit.
 

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