Discussing the impact of Brexit

Ron Hilditch

Active Member
And the remainers lost. Judging by recent posts by some it must be absolute torture for them waking up every morning and realising this great prize of the wooly liberal lefties has been lost to them forever. Imagine hoping that every new day will bring about some major news item that will lead them to have that "I told you so" moment?

On the other hand, for the Little Englanders, ignorant white working classes, racists, bigoted old people who voted leave, we laugh loudly at your plight every moment of every day. A referndum you couldn't lose was thrown away by your arrogance and inability to see the opposing campaign was running rings around you. And even after June 2016, when the votes were finally counted, you still had another three and a half years to snatch victory from defeat. And you also messed this second opportunity up. But you still bitch and moan and the more you do so the louder we all laugh as you continue to behave like spoiled brats. You bring me hours of entertainment, yet you have my sympathy.
Puzzling? Remember Sympathy comes between. sh*t & Syphilis in the dictionary.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Looks like I struck a nerve. :D

I'm not bitching or moaning, are you arguing against a phantom post? Consider yourself exorcised.
Even though we've left some clearly still very touchy.

Far too many even now still listening to the likes of fantasists Farage and Francois (see his risible letter yesterday where he proved he doesn't have a clue, yet has been one of the main mouthpieces for a harder Brexit). Or even Johnson still with his "phone me if you get any paperwork" bullsh*t. Rather than listening to the trade experts like that Grozoubinksi, that actually know what's going on and have been calling it since the beginning.

But at least now with the end of the year looming there's going to be no choice but to present the picture that it's going to be. And it is a different picture to the one that was painted. Then I expect the excuses will come for the border friction; the cries of it was all the EU's fault.

Anyway, now that we've seen that we're going to also be relying on an as yet to commence IT project - this government's speciality of course - I expect optimism for that from those business' to be thin on the ground. We couldn't even manage a mobile app properly.
 

LX200GPS

Member
The Brexit extension deadline expires tonight at 11pm. Five more months and the Transition Period comes to an end. The EU will self-destruct in T minus ....

Here's one I'm too young to remember. I hope it brings a smile to all you remainers!

 

psikey

Distinguished Member
1 minute to go and no last minute change in the news :smashin:

Or was it Brussels time and passed an hour ago o_O
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
YUGE opportunity. Unless you're a UK citizen dreaming of working in mainland Europe, I guess

And guess what, I'd guess at least 90%+ of British people don't have any desire to work in EU so big wow.



From this we can estimate that of the 1.2 million British people living in in another EU country, around 800,000 will be workers and their dependants.

So at most 500,000?
 

Buzza

Active Member
Yes, I look forward to seeing how this one pans out, though with some trepidation. I never believed we would be funding our own independent satellite array, but what we do appear to be doing is finding ways to spend money in the most wasteful of ways. Suppose it is all right if the money actually goes to deserving recipients...
 

Bigfingers

Distinguished Member
And guess what, I'd guess at least 90%+ of British people don't have any desire to work in EU so big wow.



From this we can estimate that of the 1.2 million British people living in in another EU country, around 800,000 will be workers and their dependants.

So at most 500,000?
Strange, all this negativity around, but I am feeling really hopeful for the future :thumbsup:
 

Tolq

Well-known Member
And guess what, I'd guess at least 90%+ of British people don't have any desire to work in EU so big wow.



From this we can estimate that of the 1.2 million British people living in in another EU country, around 800,000 will be workers and their dependants.

So at most 500,000?
So that would be 500.000 people negatively affected - demonstrably so.
Versus "huge opportunities", which just might (I know, highly unlikely!) still be squandered - if they are indeed real to begin with.

Out of those two, which one is a more tangible impact of Brexit?
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
So that would be 500.000 people negatively affected - demonstrably so.
Versus "huge opportunities", which just might (I know, highly unlikely!) still be squandered - if they are indeed real to begin with.

Out of those two, which one is a more tangible impact of Brexit?
Rather majority get what they voted for or no point in having democracy. Those people are already working/living in EU have choice to stay unless EU are going to now kick them out.
 

Panavision

Well-known Member
Peter North, remember him?


Unlike most Brexiters I’m not rejoicing at the prospect of cutting negotiations short and leaving with a threadbare deal. I’ve always known that Brexit would not deliver what was promised and even before the referendum that a well handled exit process meant not much would change. I didn’t anticipate it being handled quite this badly and I think even fervent remainers have been left aghast at then new found levels of ineptitude.

Being that we are making every avoidable error, Brexit is set to be a bloody nose when we can least afford it. Even without Covid it was a major headache but now it’s going to take years to claw our way back to any sense of normal, if ever. Notionally Brexit means we can make substantive reforms, but I fear the momentum is now lost and has been overtaken by events. This political malaise is far from solved.

Looking back I’d say that Brexit was just one battle in what will be a longer war, where the progressives will stage their own fightback for control over the agenda. Moreover, with the onset of global technocracy, Brexit of itself doesn’t even resolve the greater sovereignty question. There needs to be a confident reassertion of the nation state, but that may prove difficult with a nation as deeply fragmented as ours and without the moral, spiritual and political leadership we are so desperately in need of.

In 2016 we thought we’d seen a real moment of change that would eventually settle into a new normal, but there are now other forces at work which may ensure we live in turbulent times for decades to come. The West is not presently at peace with itself and has yet to reconcile itself to the new order of things, whatever that may be. The post war settlement and its institutions are collapsing and western power is gradually eclipsed by China and other hostile actors. We lack the clarity and purpose to act in unison.

By next year we will be living with the full consequences of Covid, the lockdown and Brexit, whereupon we shall have to reckon with the many decisions that got us where we’re going. There are many chickens coming home to roost on either side of the Channel and the Atlantic. I suspect only then will we truly understand what we have done and where we go next. By then it will demand a new politics because our present system and the people it produces simply aren’t up to the job. History will sweep them aside. Only then will we know what Brexit really means.
Not looking good when even a hardcore Brexiteer is aghast at what has happened.
 

hunt808

Member
Flaming. Inciting an argument
If you look at the last couple of thousand years of history, the world has slowly but surely become more liberal. There have been large backward steps—such as the rise as fascism in the 30's and the recent increase of Islamic fundamentalism—but it seems to me it's always been one step back and two steps forward. In the end, regressive movements always lose and society gradually moves forward to a more liberal position: the emancipation of women, votes for the working classes, votes for women, free movement of people and trade, universal human rights, education for women and girls, the end of slavery, same-sex marriage, gay rights etc.

Brexit, Donald Trump, the rise of the 'alt-right' and their so-called 'culture war', the demonisation of immigrants and refugees, the anti-vax movement, the hatred of intellectuals and academics...are tiny blips in history, which will inevitably be swept away by societal evolution.

As an example, look at today's teenagers and twenty-somethings and compare their values to mine, a child of the 70's and 80's. We were openly racist and homophobic, as were many of the adults. That kind of behaviour would be abhorrent to most kids these days, who are much more accepting of different cultures, sexualities and races. Give it thirty years and the current crop of illiberal voters who seem hell-bent on restricting our freedoms will all be dead and buried. Swept away by history, along with their beliefs.

Leave voters are political and intellectual dinosaurs, sitting happily by their watering holes, with no idea they're about to become extinct.
 

Bigfingers

Distinguished Member
If you look at the last couple of thousand years of history, the world has slowly but surely become more liberal. There have been large backward steps—such as the rise as fascism in the 30's and the recent increase of Islamic fundamentalism—but it seems to me it's always been one step back and two steps forward. In the end, regressive movements always lose and society gradually moves forward to a more liberal position: the emancipation of women, votes for the working classes, votes for women, free movement of people and trade, universal human rights, education for women and girls, the end of slavery, same-sex marriage, gay rights etc.

Brexit, Donald Trump, the rise of the 'alt-right' and their so-called 'culture war', the demonisation of immigrants and refugees, the anti-vax movement, the hatred of intellectuals and academics...are tiny blips in history, which will inevitably be swept away by societal evolution.

As an example, look at today's teenagers and twenty-somethings and compare their values to mine, a child of the 70's and 80's. We were openly racist and homophobic, as were many of the adults. That kind of behaviour would be abhorrent to most kids these days, who are much more accepting of different cultures, sexualities and races. Give it thirty years and the current crop of illiberal voters who seem hell-bent on restricting our freedoms will all be dead and buried. Swept away by history, along with their beliefs.

Leave voters are political and intellectual dinosaurs, sitting happily by their watering holes, with no idea they're about to become extinct.
Are you going to spend the next 30 years moping about?
Or try to accept the vote, wear a smile and make the best of your life, its the only one you have. 👍
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
If you look at the last couple of thousand years of history, the world has slowly but surely become more liberal. There have been large backward steps—such as the rise as fascism in the 30's and the recent increase of Islamic fundamentalism—but it seems to me it's always been one step back and two steps forward. In the end, regressive movements always lose and society gradually moves forward to a more liberal position: the emancipation of women, votes for the working classes, votes for women, free movement of people and trade, universal human rights, education for women and girls, the end of slavery, same-sex marriage, gay rights etc.

Brexit, Donald Trump, the rise of the 'alt-right' and their so-called 'culture war', the demonisation of immigrants and refugees, the anti-vax movement, the hatred of intellectuals and academics...are tiny blips in history, which will inevitably be swept away by societal evolution.

As an example, look at today's teenagers and twenty-somethings and compare their values to mine, a child of the 70's and 80's. We were openly racist and homophobic, as were many of the adults. That kind of behaviour would be abhorrent to most kids these days, who are much more accepting of different cultures, sexualities and races. Give it thirty years and the current crop of illiberal voters who seem hell-bent on restricting our freedoms will all be dead and buried. Swept away by history, along with their beliefs.

Leave voters are political and intellectual dinosaurs, sitting happily by their watering holes, with no idea they're about to become extinct.
All of those are contestable as to their usefulness to society. Feminism it could be argued has ruined the family unit, emasculated men, high divorce rates etc,etc.

I lost count of the complaints from women whilst dating, how boyish and downright useless men are these days, it's a familiar complaint right across the age range. Where are the men's men. Sorry women, society abandoned that concept decades ago.

Is society more happy and less depressed. No. Neither men or women are particularity happy atm. Is the family unit a mess. Yes. The very foundation of our civilisation is disjointed, unstable, subsidised economically and quite frankly undefinable.
These concepts arguments, policies etc are of western origin.
I'm not going to divulge the argument further because this isn't the thread for it.


People voted to leave because quite frankly for the time being people felt they had been forced to absorb too much liberalism (Economic, social, familial) too quickly.
They voted rightly or wrongly to leave.
Whatever happens the die is cast, the EU is going into a mega recession too, so the choppy waters of the global economy are going to be un-quantifiable for the foreseeable.
 

hunt808

Member
People voted to leave because quite frankly for the time being people felt they had been forced to absorb too much liberalism (Economic, social, familial) too quickly.
That may or may not be correct, as there seem to be as many reasons for voting leave as there are leave voters. But assuming you're right, I think the key phrase is, "too quickly". Few people enjoy change, although we all know it's inevitable. And the older one gets, the less people seem to relish or understand change. Hence why I have faith in the younger generation. Centuries of history tell us they will overturn our current lurch to the right and set us once again down a path to a more liberal, open and free society.

The die isn't cast. It just seems that way when you take a short-term view.
 

Bigfingers

Distinguished Member
That may or may not be correct, as there seem to be as many reasons for voting leave as there are leave voters. But assuming you're right, I think the key phrase is, "too quickly". Few people enjoy change, although we all know it's inevitable. And the older one gets, the less people seem to relish or understand change. Hence why I have faith in the younger generation. Centuries of history tell us they will overturn our current lurch to the right and set us once again down a path to a more liberal, open and free society.

The die isn't cast. It just seems that way when you take a short-term view.
What is this imaginary 'free society' you speak of?
 

Panavision

Well-known Member
Leave voters are political and intellectual dinosaurs, sitting happily by their watering holes, with no idea they're about to become extinct.
True dat. They are about to find out that Britain isn't relevant anymore in the big world.
EU, China, America, Mercosur, large trading blocs wield a lot of power and influence for the best deals. I hope I'm wrong and we succeed in our ambitions, but can we trust these Tories to do the simple things right?

It will be interesting to see who we align with. Biden, if he gets in, will probably join forces with the EU, and we become their bit-on-the-side.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Strange, all this negativity around, but I am feeling really hopeful for the future :thumbsup:
Yes it's odd isn't it. I can't think of a single reason right now why there'd be any negativity around. On the economic/business front especially 🤔

A real puzzlement.

Anyway, back in the real world -


Also of note -


- so bearing in mind we've yet to make a start and it's July, we really do need to get cracking - and cracking well on this. To maintain that frictionless trade that was promised.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
A REMINDER TO ALL MEMBERS: If you insult all Leavers or all Remainers you are insulting approx half the membership of the forum and this will not be tolerated. Please, wind in the petty insults, thank you.
 

Bigfingers

Distinguished Member
Yes it's odd isn't it. I can't think of a single reason right now why there'd be any negativity around. On the economic/business front especially 🤔

A real puzzlement.

Anyway, back in the real world -


Also of note -


- so bearing in mind we've yet to make a start and it's July, we really do need to get cracking - and cracking well on this. To maintain that frictionless trade that was promised.
As is usual, deals will probably be done at the last minute.
I acknowledge though, no matter what is agreed or not, it will never suit some who didn't want to leave.
I also acknowledge there will be set backs along the way, with winners and losers on both side, but I can live with that.
 

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