Discussing the impact of Brexit

Ron Hilditch

Active Member
Think you need to brush up on your history in relation to fishing

73: In EC talks Health government said fisheries expendable
83: Thatcher government signs up to CFP and agrees quota system
94: Major opens up Scottish waters to other EU states
03: Tories demand CFP be enshrined in EU treaty

You posted that the Scottish government / SNP would sell the fishermen and everyone down the river. But given what's gone before and with the link @Buzza posted showing that a tiny proportion of Scottish quotas are in foreign hands yet over half of English are it's not the SNP but the Tories that have failed to stand up for fishermen and sold them out and the same will happen again....so yeah i said you were posting nonsense and i stand by that

You may have funnied my post about it being the fishermen wants but you see that's where i get my info, straight from them. I live in the largest fishing region in the country and married into a fishing family so i know what they were promised and are now demanding the politicians deliver on
Not disputing your history lesson, it it's irrelevant to Brexit. The idea of. Brexit is to take back control. Sean Connery joined tne SNP because of the losses suffered by Scottish Fishermen. Connery, Sturgeon, Salmon can't have it both ways. Scottish control over Scottish waters or EU control of Scottish waters. Unless I'm really missing something? Shouldn't nationalists want sovereignty over their own territory. Or is it once again anyone but the English?
 

Buzza

Active Member
Think you need to brush up on your history in relation to fishing

73: In EC talks Health government said fisheries expendable
83: Thatcher government signs up to CFP and agrees quota system
94: Major opens up Scottish waters to other EU states
03: Tories demand CFP be enshrined in EU treaty

You posted that the Scottish government / SNP would sell the fishermen and everyone down the river. But given what's gone before and with the link @Buzza posted showing that a tiny proportion of Scottish quotas are in foreign hands yet over half of English are it's not the SNP but the Tories that have failed to stand up for fishermen and sold them out and the same will happen again....so yeah i said you were posting nonsense and i stand by that

You may have funnied my post about it being the fishermen wants but you see that's where i get my info, straight from them. I live in the largest fishing region in the country and married into a fishing family so i know what they were promised and are now demanding the politicians deliver on
I had hoped someone with personal knowledge of the fishing industry, would step forward to challenge the "Facts" listed, none of which were referenced. It wouldn't do for us to follow the example of BoJo making his false claim re kippers (total red herring that one).

I've had a look at the "facts" as stated by UK Fisheries Ltd on their website. It may be they have put a spin on some things for their own commercial interests, but it was nevertheless, a useful insight for me.
These 5 facts appear to highlight the necessity for a post Brexit accord to be reached.

Their Q and A page include such as "fact is that UK consumers love fish that is caught outside our own waters – like the haddock and cod that come from 1,000 miles away in the Barents Sea. On the other hand, the fish and shellfish that British fishermen catch in our own waters are mainly exported to overseas markets – mostly the EU "

Well, I for one didn't know that approx 60% of cod and haddock we get from our fish and chip shops, has been imported from Norway! Good to see that most of the MPs who responded to a poll (from 2019) were at least as ignorant.
 

tickedon

Active Member
Well, I for one didn't know that approx 60% of cod and haddock we get from our fish and chip shops, has been imported from Norway! Good to see that most of the MPs who responded to a poll (from 2019) were at least as ignorant.
Great news. Norway isn’t part of the EU, isn’t part of the CPF, and they negotiate with the EU every year on fishing - pretty similar to the model the UK is suggesting with the EU Going forward. In future years, it is likely UK would join the negotiations with Norway and the EU.
 

Buzza

Active Member
Great news. Norway isn’t part of the EU, isn’t part of the CPF, and they negotiate with the EU every year on fishing - pretty similar to the model the UK is suggesting with the EU Going forward. In future years, it is likely UK would join the negotiations with Norway and the EU.
Maybe some could take that 'fact' in isolation and call it "great news", but there are many other things highlighted that should give us cause for concern. Did you, or many other people, realise that if we close our waters to others, there is insufficient capacity in British fishing to harvest the fish in British waters? The author of that web page states that it would take over a decade and massive investment to build up British fishing fleet, to reach that capability.

Anyway, most of us (MPs included) are almost clueless on such matters, so I would respectfully defer to those who have at least some input from the fishing industry.
 

tickedon

Active Member
Maybe some could take that 'fact' in isolation and call it "great news", but there are many other things highlighted that should give us cause for concern. Did you, or many other people, realise that if we close our waters to others, there is insufficient capacity in British fishing to harvest the fish in British waters? The author of that web page states that it would take over a decade and massive investment to build up British fishing fleet, to reach that capability.

Anyway, most of us (MPs included) are almost clueless on such matters, so I would respectfully defer to those who have at least some input from the fishing industry.
Very few people are advocating closing our waters entirely (and that would be mad). Even if no deal with the EU, I would expect a Norway-UK agreement on exchange of quotas.

The key is for annual negotiations, based on more modern methods and calculations to divide fish stocks, which will allow a gradual increase in the fish fished by UK fishermen and boats as our industry can grow. This, obviously, the EU don't like - as it means fewer fish for their fishermen and coastal communities!

(I will add that I have a number of fishermen in my family, living in the Scottish highlands)
 

Ron Hilditch

Active Member
Great news. Norway isn’t part of the EU, isn’t part of the CPF, and they negotiate with the EU every year on fishing - pretty similar to the model the UK is suggesting with the EU Going forward. In future years, it is likely UK would join the negotiations with Norway and the EU.
Sums it up nicely! Why aren't we getting Cod from our own waters? If the CPF is so great on environmental protection, were are our Cod? As an example of how stupid it all is!
A couple of years ago British trawlers were being attacked by French fishermen off Le Havre. Of course we all felt miffed, but was it justified?
In my view it wasn't. Turns out the local fishermen were not allowed to fish their own coastal waters, until a later date. Fishermen mainly from the Channel Islands were allowed to catch and sell. This is an example of the craziness of EU regulations and lack of environmental protection. Greek farmers for years growing a tobacco that was so toxic, they were'nt allowed to sell it. The EU paid them for the crop and then destroyed it.
 

Ron Hilditch

Active Member
Maybe some could take that 'fact' in isolation and call it "great news", but there are many other things highlighted that should give us cause for concern. Did you, or many other people, realise that if we close our waters to others, there is insufficient capacity in British fishing to harvest the fish in British waters? The author of that web page states that it would take over a decade and massive investment to build up British fishing fleet, to reach that capability.

Anyway, most of us (MPs included) are almost clueless on such matters, so I would respectfully defer to those who have at least some input from the fishing industry.
Great news! Would give fish stocks chance to recover.
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
I had hoped someone with personal knowledge of the fishing industry, would step forward to challenge the "Facts" listed, none of which were referenced. It wouldn't do for us to follow the example of BoJo making his false claim re kippers (total red herring that one).

I've had a look at the "facts" as stated by UK Fisheries Ltd on their website. It may be they have put a spin on some things for their own commercial interests, but it was nevertheless, a useful insight for me.
These 5 facts appear to highlight the necessity for a post Brexit accord to be reached.

Their Q and A page include such as "fact is that UK consumers love fish that is caught outside our own waters – like the haddock and cod that come from 1,000 miles away in the Barents Sea. On the other hand, the fish and shellfish that British fishermen catch in our own waters are mainly exported to overseas markets – mostly the EU "

Well, I for one didn't know that approx 60% of cod and haddock we get from our fish and chip shops, has been imported from Norway! Good to see that most of the MPs who responded to a poll (from 2019) were at least as ignorant.
Between 70 and 80% of all seafood consumed in the country is imported
Anyway have sent you a PM with a fair few links for some background to save clogging up the thread, hope it's of some use :smashin:
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
Great news. Norway isn’t part of the EU, isn’t part of the CPF, and they negotiate with the EU every year on fishing - pretty similar to the model the UK is suggesting with the EU Going forward. In future years, it is likely UK would join the negotiations with Norway and the EU.
Yes you're right they do, but they have to abide by the general framework of the CFP in regard to the quota system and they pay tariffs on certain species 2 aspects as i've said earlier that UK fishermen largely expect to disappear as a result of Brexit

Here's a handy article in relation to Norway, it's 3 years old but still largely relevant

 

psikey

Distinguished Member

Ron Hilditch

Active Member
Maybe closing the smaller ones first? After the EU/Japan deal they can send everything direct from Japan now. Great these trade deals.
The Barcelona plant is massive. Looks as if the EU/Japan zero tariff regime on the import of cars has worked, but not as the EU intended? The law of Unintended Consequences writ large.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Sunderland plant might not be so safe after all...

Of course, car industry is going through massive changes with electrification and the EU deal with Japan makes it now far easier/cheaper for them to just centralise and ship cars direct from Japan.

I think in Asia/Europe car ownership will drop over the next few decades. Even though I'm now in my 50's I'm cycling to work more now than ever with the availability of excellent electric bikes (for hills!) and that's with me having a hybrid electric Golf GTE car too averaging 235mpg over last 16,000 mile.

Being in EU isn't saving Spanish site is it! There's bigger things happening to blame Brexit for it all.
 

Tolq

Well-known Member
Of course, car industry is going through massive changes with electrification and the EU deal with Japan makes it now far easier/cheaper for them to just centralise and ship cars direct from Japan.

I think in Asia/Europe car ownership will drop over the next few decades. Even though I'm now in my 50's I'm cycling to work more now than ever with the availability of excellent electric bikes (for hills!) and that's with me having a hybrid electric Golf GTE car too averaging 235mpg over last 16,000 mile.

Being in EU isn't saving Spanish site is it! There's bigger things happening to blame Brexit for it all.
You can talk about the Spanish plant all you want. This is straight from Nissan.

Mr Gupta said: "You know we are the number one carmaker in the UK and we want to continue. We are committed. Having said that, if we are not getting the current tariffs, it's not our intention but the business will not be sustainable. That's what everybody has to understand."
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
You can talk about the Spanish plant all you want. This is straight from Nissan.
No traditional Car manufacture will be sustainable. Its far easier to produce electric cars and battery prices are falling. All the battery tech/development and much of the raw material processing is in Asia.

If EU/US etc. don't want to be swamped with imported cars they will ultimately have to introduce tariffs again in the future to encourage assembly/jobs etc. in local economies.

If import cars become too expensive for UK, some company will likely build electric cars for the UK market in the UK. Think a bit further than a couple years away, look more to the next couple of decades.

I predict a growth in individual transport such as electric bikes/scooters etc for short trips and autonomous (driverless) Taxi like vehicles at much cheaper prices for the longer journeys or public transport.

I'm already commuting 10 mile each way on my electric bike which also builds in a bit of exercise too while helping the environment.
 

Tolq

Well-known Member
You may very well be right, but what you are saying is not immediately tied to Brexit - unlike what Nissan's COO said. :smashin:
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
You may very well be right, but what you are saying is not immediately tied to Brexit - unlike what Nissan's COO said. :smashin:
All "actors" from Political & business will try to manipulate things for their own benefit. End of day, while we want cars someone will want to sell us them. We may be costed out of less choice in the short term. If importing cars becomes too expensive for the supplier they will build/assembly in UK.

Only certainty is that voters clearly voiced their opinion and majority put Boris/Tories in power to get Brexit completed. That hasn't changed just because of Covid-19.
 
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tickedon

Active Member
You're kidding? Aww after all his hard work and dedication too :rotfl:
And after all the precedents he was happy to rip up.... I'm sure he's less keen on this precedent being ignored.
 

klaxhu

Well-known Member
Yes you're right they do, but they have to abide by the general framework of the CFP in regard to the quota system and they pay tariffs on certain species 2 aspects as i've said earlier that UK fishermen largely expect to disappear as a result of Brexit

Here's a handy article in relation to Norway, it's 3 years old but still largely relevant

Nigel was also a massive fan of Norway during Brexit ... where does he stand on it now ?
Wait...he doesn't stand at all, he is now also gone from LBC :D Finally ...
One more racist extremist left at LBC, one by one they are leaving into anonymity: who would have thought that Brexit can also have a positive impact.

 

Bigfingers

Distinguished Member
Nigel was also a massive fan of Norway during Brexit ... where does he stand on it now ?
Wait...he doesn't stand at all, he is now also gone from LBC :D Finally ...
One more racist extremist left at LBC, one by one they are leaving into anonymity: who would have thought that Brexit can also have a positive impact.

He's on talk radio shortly 👍
 

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