Disappointing Q200E

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by andyh41, Jan 21, 2002.

  1. andyh41

    andyh41
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    Hi Guys,
    I have just invested in a Q200E and i'm not really getting the performance that everyone else seems to be achieving. It's connected via the high level for stereo use and takes all the bass for DD and DTS with the other speakers set to small. It works well for DPL and music, adding a lot more warmth and depth to the proceedings, but it doesn't really have the oomph that I was expecting as far as DD and DTS go. For eg the T Rex impact tremors in JP1 really don't have much impact - shouldn't you be able to feel this? I don't have the system volume that loud, so is that the reason I never get the real welly out of it?
    Placement is not ideal as it's hemmed in by (but not touching) an AV cabinet and main speaker, sitting on spikes and concrete floor. The rest of the system is cyrus AV5+amps, and linn kelidhs/centrik. I guess I should speak to the dealer, but I thought i'd find out if anyone else has had similar set up problems.
    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I have the original Q Bass and can feel Mr Rex before he arrives in Jurassic Park so you should be able to as well but mine is connected via low level input.

    It takes a while to set up the sub correctly but if you have one of the Region Discs such as Terminator 2 with the THX Optimiser on it, that is a great help.

    There is a good article on set up at http://www.whatvideotv.com/articles/faq.html
     
  3. andyh41

    andyh41
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    Sorry, I didn't make it clear, but it is also connected via the low level from the processor for av use.
     
  4. PitBull

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    Andy,

    Just a thought...

    On some DVD players, the sound format of the disk is not automatically recognized and the DVD player sound format has to be manually changed from the default (often stereo or DPL maybe) to DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 as appropriate - e.g. the Samsung 709 is like this.

    So your amp may be set up to expect 5.1, but it is in fact only getting stereo or DPL ?

    Regards.

    PitBull.
     
  5. russraff

    russraff
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    I was recently looking at subs, and demoed the REL Q200 (old one, don't think there is a difference between the 200 and 201), Strata III and a Miller and Kriesel sub for about £900 (MX125?). The 150 and 200 lacked the power I was expecting, and I don't know why (see below). The Strata III, on the other hand was exceptional, very tight and deep. I was so impressed with REL's ST range that I demoed the Storm III and bought that. Listen to the ST range instead of the Q range, you may be surprised.

    As a side note, I seem to remember "Richard E Lord " visiting the states and looking at an unspecified speaker cone technology in California. I have just found a manufacturer called Sunfire, owned by Bob Carver, a bigwig in the audio industry, apparently based in California. If you look at their subs, drivers, and their physical size they are identical to REL Q200. Only Sunfire put in very powerful amps. I wonder if there is a connection, and why the Q200 seems underpowered (to some)?

    Of course, I could be talking rubbish...
     
  6. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Think some manufactures source their drivers from other companies. Dynaudio drivers are also used by 'the competition', can't remember what company ...

    The "True Subwoofer" with 2700 Watt, yeah, shake, rattle and Rock 'n Roll! :D
     
  7. andyh41

    andyh41
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    The digital connection is fine and both DD and DTS come through loud and clear. Tried the THX optimode last night and nothing appears to be wrong with the setup. Don't get me wrong, the sub's made a big improvement but it just doesn't sound as good as everyone else is suggesting their's does! Do you guys increase the LFE output from the amp/processor or do you leave it flat? I can only decrease te LFE signal on mine?
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Q200, when we had one for evaluation, was very hard to set up and integrate with other equipment. This seems to be a trait of all these compact subs. Linn's Sizmik is difficult too, not helped by their ridiculous buttons on the control panel...The B+W one is easiest and msot consistent in my opinion.

    You should be able to get a BIG punch out of it though. Not LOW frequencies around 20-30Hz but certainly gutsy, ballsy punch. It may be that the p[osition you have it in is causing your problems. It sounds like you can't have it anywhere else but try this to check. Play something you expect to have bass and put it on an a-b loop on the DVD player. Now, get off your seat and move around the room. Is there a better, more consistent area where the sound is like you were expecting? If so I think you will need to look at moving some furniture to get better positioning of the thing.

    Gordon
     
  9. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi

    I´ve got my Q200 setup as follows and gives me low down grunt as well as punch.

    All speakers set to small, bass to sub. Use Mode 2 or 4 on the sub, this bypasses the subs internal crossover, low level volume is set to around halfway. The amp LFE is left at 0db (mine can be adjusted from 0 down to -20) Its also possible to adjust the sub channel level independently, mines at -8db.

    Ive also got the High level connected with the crossover set around 70hz and the volume level around a third (used for 2ch music)

    Have a play around with the phase, as switching mine to Mode 4 made quite a bit of difference.

    Maybe, as Gordon suggests, its the positioning thats causing the problem.
     
  10. Dom

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    Hi,

    I have exactly the same problem but with the rel Q400. I shall try the suggestions made here as the instruction manual does not even depict the Q400 model, and appears to be written by a four year old!
     
  11. GearHead

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    Andy,

    A couple of things.

    1. make sure you have the correct mode setting on the sub - ie the low-level input is not going through the low-pass filter.

    2. As you have both high and low level connections to the sub, try setting your main left/right speakers to large. This will allow you to tweak-up the LFE output without affecting the bass level contribution for the left/right channels. ie you can tweak the levels independently.

    The down-side of this configuration is that you might find that the best high-level setting for movies is different to the bset setting for music.

    Allan
     
  12. andyh41

    andyh41
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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I have tried changing the phase switch from 2 to 4 and this reduces the amount of bass output. But maybe this means I could then turn up the sub level to give a more punchy output? dunno, needs checking again. I have the high and lo levels set to about +1/3, with the processor sub output at -3db and LFE at 0.
    I've tried moving the sub clear of the other equipment and this does reduce some of the boom that sometimes occurs - but unfortunately by pandering to aesthetic requirements, keeping clear of the adjoining wall and out of the baby's reach, I don't have much choice about it's position!
    I'm not convinced it isn't partly a volume thing. Due to the above mentioned factors I can't really have it as loud as i'd like - but without an SPL meter I can't really give you meaningful values for that either. Would the processor decoding have anything to do with it? The cyrus has been noted for being a bit laid back with the explosive stuff.
     
  13. stranger

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    if you dont have any success, phone richard lord he really is helpful.alternatively go into or phone a branch of practical hi-fi, they are agents for rel and also very helpful.
     
  14. uncle eric

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    Russ,
    No, you are not talking rubbish. I strongly suspect that REL went sideways with their 150/200 models and followed the trend set by the Sunfire 'True' sub.
    Its all very well following something that sounds fantastic but I can assure you the 'True' does not fall into this catagory. I've had a good listen to the Sunfire twice now. Once in the states and over here. In short, its pretty much an all or nothing affair.
    It either breaks your windows or goes into a coma.

    Eric
     
  15. uncle eric

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    Just a short note about Subwoofer placement.
    Many installers (and Cedia members) nearly always place subwoofers in corners. Their reasoning?. More bass.
    The facts are that while corner positions indeed offer more decibels for your watt, this placement, always results in horrible uneven boomy bass.
    For a smoother bass response subwoofers should be placed at one-to three quarters of the rooms length or width and be at least three feet from the nearest boundary wall.
    Using two subs (one in each location) is better still.

    Eric
     
  16. Lowrider

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    I moved my 2 Strata III to the corners (about 1 foot from each wall), from in front of the speakers, and they do go further down, but without any boom (I had to lower the volume a bit)...
     
  17. stranger

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    i also have a sub in each rear corner placed diagonally with drivers facing the side walls. I also put them on spikes this tightens the bass and cuts the boom.
     
  18. andyh41

    andyh41
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    Well I moved the sub around a fair bit last night, twiddled the levels and phase, but I still can't get it to perform as I expect it should. The Matrix lobby shoot out was quite pedestrian, with deep but not very tight or punchy bass and the music track never really came to life. The subsequent helicopter crash into the skyscraper had good rumble but no real impact. I'm running out of things to try here - time to speak to the dealer I think. Seems like subwoofer set up is not always easy but I think there must be something else wrong in my case.
     
  19. Jase

    Jase
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    Maybe you´ve got a duff one?

    It does take a while to get it integrated with the rest of the system, little tweaks here & there.

    You could always be expecting more than it can give, as whats good for some is bad for others etc etc
     
  20. stranger

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    something that sounds daft, but nevertheless is true,the lower you set the sub the better it can sond, less is sometimes more, worth a try. lower the crossover to add more punch.
     
  21. Noman

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    It sounds like it maybe your preferences that doesen´t correspond with the qualitys of the REL sub.

    I have compared a lot of sub´s before i ended up with a REL

    Try out a bandpass sub like the Paradigm PS 1200
     
  22. andyh41

    andyh41
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    I don't think my expectations are too high. The set up is based around a decent hifi system so I do appreciate a bit of subtlety and poise, but then i'm also never satisfied! I had the dealer round a while back to try different speaker/interconnect cables - he said the movie performance was typical of a hi 'ish end seperates system - perhaps I should trade it all in for a Denon AVC A11SR instead!!!! :confused:
     
  23. andyh41

    andyh41
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    Well I don't really know what I did, but it's starting to sound a lot better now - a bit of repositioning, a dash of level twiddling or maybe it was just still running itself in? I don't think it will ever be a real room shaker, but then I can never crank the volume up that high anyway. Thanks for all your various inputs.
     

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