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Difference between Yamaha 2400 and DSP-Z9

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Paulherb, Jan 24, 2004.

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  1. Paulherb

    Paulherb
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    Hi,
    Apart from the extra amplification, extra DSP modes, on board scaler and extra inputs is there really anything different in sound quality, HT sound processing, between the two units to justify such a hugh difference in price?

    All I want is an Amp for my HT does the Z9 sound all that better than the 2400.

    Any help would be most welcome!

    Cheers

    Paulh.
     
  2. windfall

    windfall
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    Is there anything in the THX certification - AFAIK DSP-AZ9 has ultra 2 cert, where the 1400/2400 is just the Select.

    Having owned two top line Yamaha amps thee is more video switching and sub connections and amplification then the lesser models.

    Perhaps you should print off the PDF's on the yamaha web site?

    Hope this helps.

    Tone
     
  3. Paulherb

    Paulherb
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    Thanks for the advice

    What I am saying is that I dont really need the Farouja Scaler, the extra inputs and maybe not the extra power, what I want is the best sound/movie decoding/ quality. If I can get that from the 2400 then I don't see the need to pay extra for features I don't need.

    Cheers

    Paulh.
     
  4. thackl

    thackl
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    Paul,

    the Z9 has Burr Brown DACs on all channels, the 2400 only on LCR. When I upgraded from RX-V3000 (BB on LCR) to the Z1 (BB on all channels) I could hear the difference.
    Z9 has higher density DSP modes due to more DSP processors but that's only relevant if you will use them.
    Z9 also has enough amps to run 7 channel plus the front presence channels whereas the 2400 can only run either the back surrounds or the front presence channels. Not sure if you will need the front presence speakers. In my experience they only make sense on larger screens 100" and up but then they open another universe in front image. Personally I wouldn't live without them anymore.

    I would recommend that you listen to both to judge the actual sound quality.

    Cheers
    Tom
    http://members.optusnet.com.au/~thackl/gallery.html
     
  5. Paulherb

    Paulherb
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    Thanks for the advice Tom!

    I've heard the Z9's are in short supply, I can't seem to see many online.

    Thanks again!

    Paulh.
     
  6. Dave H

    Dave H
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    Tom how much did you sell your AZ1 for because I am after one and you can't find one anywere.

    Dave.
     
  7. windfall

    windfall
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    Thackl

    With regards to the 2400 - If I wanted to run the front effects and the rear centre what would I need to do. I have a 7ft screen and am looking to purchase the amp in the next month - I also want to sell my existing A5 but thats another thing. Would I need another stereo amp? If so how do I get it connected to the 2400 - or is that impossible? Maybe I get the A5 to run the front effects or the rear centre alone? But how would I link them up?

    Cheers

    Tone
     
  8. thackl

    thackl
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    @Dave

    I still have my Z1 and won't upgrade to a Z9 as they list for A$12,000 (about 5,000 English pounds) in Australia which is downright ridiculous.

    @tone

    All you need is a stereo amp (or monoblocks) that matches the 2400's power (i.e. 2x 100/120 watts RMS), configure the 2400 so that the amps for the surround back drive the presence speakers and connect the 2400's surround back pre-out L/R to any input of the stereo amp. You can use the A5 to do this, I have 'recycled' most of my older amps for duties like that. Make sure though you use a decent pair of speakers for the presence channels.

    Cheers
    Tom

    pictures and equipment
    http://members.optusnet.com.au/~thackl/gallery.html
     
  9. windfall

    windfall
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    I picked up some Yamaha NS E80 (white flat designed exactly for this application) from ebay, so I can in reality have the following configuration;

    Front - P P - Connected to 2400 (Front Effects)
    L C R - Connected to 2400 (Obvious I hope)
    RL C C RR - The two Rear centres connected to my A5?

    The A5 is not worth a lot so for the hassle it's prob worth using it however the A5 does not have as much oomph as the 2400 amps.

    Also is there a prob using Dipoles for the rear centre or is this a total no go, only reason I ask is that in Richer Sounds they ahve some fairly small dipoles that would be quite well used in the location I need to use.

    Cheers for the pointers

    Tone
     
  10. thackl

    thackl
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    Tone,

    just had another closer look at the 2400 back panel picture. At the pre-outs it says 'surround back/presence'. I would assume that you actually can output the presence channels from here but don't know what needs to be configured internally for this to happen. So, you would simply use the internal amps to run the surround backs and connect the A5 to the presence pre-outs (making sure it outputs the presence signal). In this case the power of the A5 is fine, even the Z9 only has 2x50watts for the presence channels. Sorry for the confusion (the green bar around the pre-outs on the picture covers the writing on these particular pre-outs)

    P P = A5
    L C R = 2400
    RS C C LS = 2400

    Dipols for surround back/rear centre are actually recommended so that won't be an issue. Di & Bipoles are simply not as good for music applications but excellent for film


    Paul,

    here is a rough translation from German (found on http://www.areadvd.de/ )for the difference in YPAO in Z9 and 2400

    "In the DSP-Z9, YPAO uses 4x YSS930 instead of a single one. All 9 channels plus Subwoofer are adjusted/linearisiert per parametric EQ .In the 1400/2400 only 7 channels are active. In the DSP-Z9, the PEQ has 10 bands instead of 7 in the 1400/2400. Computing capacity in the conversion of delay and loudspeaker adjustments in the connection with the large_ amounts of data of the HD Cinema DSP is considerably larger than in_ the 1400/2400. Also a better microphone is included. The reference distance is much larger (24 meters instead of 6 meters)"

    Cheers
    Tom
     
  11. Paulherb

    Paulherb
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    Cheers Tom.

    I quite fancy the Z9, although Im gunna have to save a bit to get it by which time it may have dropped in price a bit. I hope!

    Cheers

    Paulh.
     
  12. thackl

    thackl
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    I stand corrected. It seems the 2400 cannot output surroundback & presence at the same time. Here is a link to a avsforum thread and I also post here the relevant section of the audioholics.com's FAQ
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=356407


    Q: Simultaneous Front Effects and Surround Back Channels?
    When engaged in a DSP mode, using an external amp connected to the preouts for Surround Back/Presence, can the user achieve a 9.1 configuration? In other words, with the receiver supply power to the surround back channels while the external amps supply power to presence channels? Or is the user simply parallel powering identical surround back/presence channels to all four speakers?
    _
    A: No, this option is not supported on the RX-V2400.

    The user cannot achieve a 9.1ch configuration. _No, because RX-V2400 has only 7ch amplifiers AND 7 preout circuit to output. TheRX-V2400 has 9 speakers setting (please see Owner's manual page 29). In this 9 speakers setting case, presence speakers are set on “front” and surround back speakers are set on “back”. The customer has a choice between two alternatives which is "using presence speakers" OR "using surround back speakers".

    For example, when engaged in Cinema DSP mode (presence speakers out mode) and a source signals have 7.1ch signal (including surround back signal), a customer has to decide which speakers (presence or surround back) is ON. In presence case, surround back signal is merged into surround channel signal. _In surround back case, presence signal is merged into front channel signal. In this case, A priority which speakers are selected is set by setting. See Owner's manual page 53.
     
  13. windfall

    windfall
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    What a shame!!! I just picked up the speakers I needed!! Oh Well back to the drawing board then.

    Thackl - Thanks for the help - saved me some grief for sure!!
     
  14. jrpavel

    jrpavel
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    I am happy with the sound of the 2400 which I have on trial. I am using it with ProAc Hexa front/centre and Kef Egg sub/rears. Natural-sounding dialogue on freeview TV (hence not Eggs all round).

    I'm attracted to the Z9s extra features (iLink, video scaling for the Panny PW6) but there is, of course, the sticker shock!

    A further important issue is availability. The 2400 always seems to be 2 weeks away; the z9 seems to be closer to hand. Perhaps they would say that.

    Is the Z9 (AZ9?) worth the extra / likely to be more future-proof? Are there other receivers that would be better value (I like the auto room set-up and PL-IIx)?
     
  15. thackl

    thackl
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    jrpavel,

    no Yamaha receiver will ever be future proof. They are known to issue new models rather than software updates when new sound formats come along (I have that statement on an e-mail from Yamaha).

    With the Z9 in particular the issue is DVI/HDMI switching or more precisely the lack thereof. In 2-3 years time virtually all source and display equipment will have DVI & HDMI connections and you are stuck with analog. I also would expect HDMI to replace iLink eventually so you may not even find too many players that will get iLink.

    Cheers
    Tom
     

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