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Difference 808/808s?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Paul D, Sep 12, 2001.

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  1. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Anybody know the difference between the Barco 808 and 808s. I know some people think the "s" is for Sony tubes, but i believe this is not true. One does have a higher scan rate etc, but is there any other differences. And if there is what are the good/bad points?.My money is starting to burn a hole in my pocket, but if I have to wait for the right machine, then so be it!.

    Thanks
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    [Mod edit : removed dead links]

    they have always seemed quite similar to me from specs. Only ever seen a 808

    808 to 808s

    h 69 to 75 khz
    v 140 to 200 hz
    res 1180 x 900 to 1280 x 1024
     
  3. ATUL

    ATUL
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    Barco Graphics 808s is 1250 lumens,will accept progressive scan input,CRT drive mode(Normal,economy,boost and permanent boost),Seagull correction.whereas Barco Graphics 808 is 1000 lumens and will not accept progressive scan input,NO crt drive mode and seagull correction.

    Atul.
     
  4. Rob

    Rob
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    This is a bit misleading. The 808 will accept a progressive input, but it does not have component inputs. Not that this is really a problem for most users as a 480p progressive input is not ideal. Quadscans/HTPCs and most scalers output RGBHV. Around 720 or 768(XGA) is about where you would want to be. I also think most 808s users would use normal mode, so I don't see the need for economy/ boost for HC.

    Regards Rob.
     
  5. ATUL

    ATUL
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    Rob please read my post carefully.

    808 do not have component and will NOT take progressive scan input.

    808s has component input and will take progressivescan input.

    Atul.
     
  6. uncle eric

    uncle eric
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    All the above plus 808s has newer chasis and firmware.

    However, the main debate (and confusion) of the last few years has been whether the s in 808s actually stands for Sony (as in Sony tubes) Some techs have said that they have actually found some 808s with MEC tubes and vice versa.

    Another theory is that S stands for Scheimfleg.

    Here is the definitive answer.

    Scheimfleg adjustments are only to be found in the Graphics models NOT the Data models.While this gives easier corner focus adjustments, in good hands the Data 808s has the potential with correct installation and seting up to match the accuracy of the Graphics focus as near as dam it.Also and more importantly there is a twist to this story.The Barco Graphics 808s does indeed have Sony tubes however, the Barco Data 808s has MEC tubes.

    The MEC tubes are superior in that they seem to be more stable at higher refresh rates and have more accurate colours which is important as neither have colour filtering.

    Of course wherever there is a plus there is a downside. In this case it is the replacement costs of the MEC tubes which are far higher than the Sony tubes.

    Happy viewing

    Eric

    [ 13-09-2001: Message edited by: uncle eric ]</p>
     
  7. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Eric. I bet you know what i'm going to ask next!.

    Whats the main difference between the Data808s and Graphic808s!.

    Sorry!
     
  8. uncle eric

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    Paul, Aside from what I mentioned above, the Graphics has a higher horizontal refresh rate (up to 110 Khz),usefull for some computer applications.

    However, for home theater viewing this is largely irrelevent as the Data 808s can scan up to 75Khz which is more than enough for 960p (or quad) which most people find difficult to set up for anyway. Many 8" PJ owners eventually settle on 720p (triple) or therabouts.

    The main weakness of both these projectors is that they are both Air-Coupled as opposed to being Liquid-Coupled. In certain scenes (most noticable in the credits) where there is a large black area and very small white area there is a pronounced glow around the white.This does not occur in Liquid coupled PJ's as the Liquid absorbs much of the light bounce back.

    This however is not a big problem for most (including me).

    Eric

    [ 14-09-2001: Message edited by: uncle eric ]
     
  9. jlcrawford

    jlcrawford
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    I actually run my 808s Graphics in economy mode and this is plenty bright so I think I am putting less wear onto the CRTs and extending their life.Hence I would wait for the 808s -Fulabeer I bought mine from Atul and when I found a burn on the blue tube he sent me a replacement-I got a better price from him than quoted anywhere else. My main advice would be to take off the lenses before buying any CRT and physically check the Face.
     
  10. Rob

    Rob
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    Atul,

    I did read your post carefully. Did you read mine?

    I agree that the 808 cannot accept a progressive input from a progressive player, but it can accept a progresssive input from a scaler/ PC. I have an 808 myself and there is no problem with this. My point was that I don't know that many people would run a player straight to an 808/808s without some sort of scaling. Be interested to know what other people are using.

    Regards Rob
     
  11. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Roland. I think that answered all my questions!(And if it didn't, then somebody take me outside and shoot me!).

    Thanks also to all the other replies!
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    So Paul what is it going to be?
     
  13. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Nic, that all depends on you! if you know what i mean. (ask Gordon!)
     
  14. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Red squirrel has bought his bannana.
     
  15. uncle eric

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    Roland,How do you rate the MEC tubes as opposed to the Sony tubes.I have never compared these side by side but its said that the MEC's are a little more desirable for reasons I stated earlier.I bought my BD808s mainly for that reason (and the little matter of around 300 hours on the clock for 2 grand)It had been hanging in one of 'Anderson Consultings' conferance rooms in the West End for a few years without doing zilch.They decided to 'upgrade' to a Sharp LCD, so I helped them by taking it off their hands.

    At the time, they even had a brand new boxed (never opened) Sony 1292 which they wanted 8 grand for. I think it was worth a little more.

    Best Wishes

    Eric
     
  16. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Lots of good stuff here.I would have leapt on earlier, but I was away at the HiFi Show.

    The Barco 808 series of projectors were introduced in July 1994 to replace the flagging 801.

    There were two varieties of 808 the Data and Graphics.

    Barco have four projector categories Vision (video), Data (PC), Graphics (Workstation) and Reality (Serious high resolution)

    The key differences between the Data and Graphics 808 were:

    Graphics had Scheimpflug (diagonal optical focus)Data scanned to 69KHz Graphics scanned to 105Khz They both used the same tubes (MEC) and lenses (HD8).RGB Band width was 75Mhz on both.

    In July 1996 Barco announced the 808s the "s" is significant Again both the Data (a bit later) and Graphics models were upgraded in their specification. (Sony (G70 and Electrohome 8500 war).Yes the tubes were changed to Sony but only on the Graphics and no, it's not what the "s" stands for. It actually stood for Super or Superior Barco didn't feel the need to change to 809 because that was another product altogether.

    The key introductions with the 808 &#8221;s&#8221; families were.
    Component video
    2nd RGB input?
    Iris 2
    Internal Line doubler compatibility (LiDo)
    Graphics RGB Bandwidth increased to 120 Mhz
    Data remained at 75 Mhz
    Graphics Scan rate compatibility increased to 110Khz
    Memory Banks
    There were a whole host of internal changes both mechanical, electrical and software.
    Later in it's life the Data 808s increased to 75Khz to cope with 1280x1024 and boost sales

    The key issue here I believe is how are they relevant in Home cinema

    The three most significant are the introduction of Component video, Iris 2 and memory banks.

    IMHO The Graphics is easier to install (non of that messing with washers behind the lens business) other than that it make no difference.The 808 & 808s deserves an external scaller with RGB output due to their exceptional ability to resolve about 700 to 900 lines in 16x9 mode. The Component video input did not have the correct bandwidth to handle any thing above 15Khz (this was changed on the Cine8) Iris 2 is a nice toy and will perform the basic quick alignments do not expect it to be as good as the brochure says.Memory banks are important to allow 16x9 and 4x3 and anything else from the same source.

    Of LESS relevance is Drive mode. This only applied to peak full white screens like windows. (It gave a better ANSI light test folks) running your projector in economic, normal or boost for home cinema makes no difference. So I'm afraid the 808 and 808s are the same brightness 1000 lumens peak white.Seagull correction should not be needed for home cinema, no screen is that accurate.

    Chassis for the 808,808s Cine8 has never changed
     
  17. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    It is very difficult to tell the difference. Allegedly the Sony tube can take a higher voltage and has slightly higher resolution.

    Sony on all their devices, have done some strange things with red to improve the saturation. But they always looked a bit too warm to me. The MEC tubes are no more. I've not consciously done an AB test but I remember being able to see the difference when the change happened back in 1996 or perhaps that was marketing. There were loads of other changes internally which also made a difference.

    Trouble is there is so much else you have to get right before you can start choosing which Phosphor you prefer.

    If I had the choice I would go for the BG808s with the Sony tubes. But not because of the tubes.

    p.s. What happened to the 1292 in the end?
     
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