Did you vote out of the EU? Are you doubting your decision?

nheather

Distinguished Member
That is the trouble with margins Nigel, they're so variable, we have too accept the fact that elements will remain of those that will moan moan and more moan because they can't accept the result. We have become a nation of remoaners, never thought I say that but how it is, a bit like we have too apologize for everything, even what our forefathers did decades ago just to appease some lefty liberal who has done nothing. Well I say bollocks to that! Guess I am old skool in that regard.

Someone shouted at me the other day, * Hey Hamps, Peoples vote? I shouted back *Guess aliens voted in the 1st one*
I think we are agreeing with each other. All I was saying is that if we find ourselves in a situation where referendum results are being overturned or rerun because the margin is so small and enough people might have changed their minds to reverse the result, then the only mitigation is to insist on such a margin that result cannot be denied.

But I agree with you about the problem of margins which is why I gave the examples where people had complained a margin that went against them was too smaller but celebrated victories with much smaller margins.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Doghouse Riley

Active Member
I think that most younger remainers are of that opinion as they just don't want the slightest inconvenience if we leave. They've never beem "inconvenienced" in their whole lives and wouldn't be able to handle it, as did most of my generation.

What they fail to understand is that to stay would inevitably mean the same situation that the Labour government caused in the early sixties by making many grammar schools become comprehensives.
This happened to my school after I had left. Instead of a general raising of educational standards, it just dragged the more able down to a lower level. The comments of those who experienced the change at my school on the old Friends Reunited messageboard are testimomy to that fact.
Those running the EU won't be satisfied until all the better off countries are dragged down to the same lower economic level. We'll forever be picking up the tab with a consequent lowering of our standard of living.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
I think we are agreeing with each other. All I was saying is that if we find ourselves in a situation where referendum results are being overturned or rerun because the margin is so small and enough people might have changed their minds to reverse the result, then the only mitigation is to insist on such a margin that result cannot be denied.

But I agree with you about the problem of margins which is why I gave the examples where people had complained a margin that went against them was too smaller but celebrated victories with much smaller margins.

Cheers,

Nigel
Someone somewhere will moan. :)
Here we go again.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
...but I never thought I'd see a possible reunification of Ireland in my lifetime...
I always assumed that a United Ireland was inevitable and would occur in the next 10 to 20 years.

As I understand it the Good Friday Agreement enshrines the principle that whether NI remains part of the UK or unites with Ireland will depend upon the wishes of the majority of the population.

There are currently more Protestants than Catholics in NI. The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, 3% more than Catholics at 45%. However, the proportion of Catholics in NI has been steadily increasing. Young Catholics outnumber Protestants by around 3:2 - of those of school age in NI, 51% are Catholic and only 37% Protestant. So there is a demographic shift toward a significant Catholic majority. Obviously, being Catholic in NI does not necessarily align with being in favor of a United Ireland but it may be a strong indicator.

If the majority of NI do vote to leave the UK then that should not be regarded as a negative event. The majority should always decide. (Except in the case of Brexit. :cool: Did I mention that I'm a remainer?)
 

Clem_Dye

Well-known Member
I think that we’ve had Brexit — it’s unlikely to happen. MPs who agreed to honour the results of the referendum are realising that for the first time in a very long time, they’ll actually have to do something, rather than have the EU do it for them, and it scares them. MPs have always been a duplicitous lot, but recent events show that they cannot be trusted at all. I have no idea who’d vote for in any forthcoming election. The Conservatives have made a complete hash of things, the LibDems want to revoke Article 50, any Labour government will ruin the country and the Brexit party is a one-trick pony.

What I don’t get was why, once the vote was in, the Conservatives didn’t take a multi party approach to getting things sorted. Teresa May’s deal would have the UK become a vassal state of the EU. Looking at things overall, I’m not too fussed about NI per se. What I think aren’t up for grabs are the surrender of our fishing rights, management of immigration (both from within and without the EU) and letting the ECJ have any sway in our legal process.

Boris Johnson is an utter clown, and has no chance of getting anything done. Parliament has seen to that. The EU don’t want to negotiate. Why would they? They have us exactly where they want us.

What remainers don’t realise is that if they get their way, and by some means we end-up staying part of the EU, we as a country will be punished for having tried to leave the bloc.

The Mother of All Parliaments is a farce, just like the UK is. I’d emigrate, if I could, but I’m too old now. Oh what it is to be British in 2019 ...

Clem
 

Dony

Distinguished Member
I always assumed that a United Ireland was inevitable and would occur in the next 10 to 20 years.

As I understand it the Good Friday Agreement enshrines the principle that whether NI remains part of the UK or unites with Ireland will depend upon the wishes of the majority of the population.

There are currently more Protestants than Catholics in NI. The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, 3% more than Catholics at 45%. However, the proportion of Catholics in NI has been steadily increasing. Young Catholics outnumber Protestants by around 3:2 - of those of school age in NI, 51% are Catholic and only 37% Protestant. So there is a demographic shift toward a significant Catholic majority. Obviously, being Catholic in NI does not necessarily align with being in favor of a United Ireland but it may be a strong indicator.

If the majority of NI do vote to leave the UK then that should not be regarded as a negative event. The majority should always decide. (Except in the case of Brexit. :cool: Did I mention that I'm a remainer?)
That could be beyond my lifetime (almost 50 now), but the process has been brought into today's thinking due to Brexit.
There needs to be a lot of serious dialogue with all concerned to see how a United Ireland will work for everyone on the island of Ireland. As you say, not all Catholics will vote for it, but not all Protestants will vote against it either. 56% voted here to remain, so it certainly wasn't an us v them result that you normally get in N.I politics.
 

trevor432990

Active Member
Voted Leave and remain a leaver ..... oh darn it I mentioned remain grrrr!
The only way a clean Brexit will be delivered is a) If the Brexit party manage to win a majority of seats (tall order considering they have no MPs yet) or b) the local Tory party committees ALL oust their Remain voting MPs where they voted contrary to their local constituents, before the next general election (even taller order) c) the EU kick us out (even less likely as they need our money).
In the meantime I have to look for a new TV to replace the ones I've broken so far watching the likes of Anna Soubrey, Gina Miller, Misc Scottish pipsqueaks telling us we must have a deal.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
I don't understand, who has more of a democratic say within the UK?
I'm glad you asked.

Let's compare with Scotland.

We get less MPs per head in England than in Scotland.

We don't have devolved powers to decide things for ourselves. So for example the SNP can block Sunday trading laws in England despite having the same laws in Scotland.
 

Doghouse Riley

Active Member
The EU is like a leech, they are difficult to remove without causing some personal injury, but once they are gone it will get better. Much preferable than having your blood sucked dry.
 

psikey

Well-known Member
Similarly, Farage is like a dogsh*t you've just stepped in with brand new shoes.
Actually Farage is nothing at all until a GE is launched. Just another mouth on the media circuit. (oh and an MEP but nobody is bothered about them).
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Mutualistic Symbiotic Parasite is a more accurate description. Both entities closely connected, producing a mutually beneficial relationship for both parties.
'Tapeworms cause health problems around the world and can even kill since they rob us of nutrients, block our intestines, and take up space in organs that stop them from functioning normally.'
 

SteakAndCake

Suspended
'Tapeworms cause health problems around the world and can even kill since they rob us of nutrients, block our intestines, and take up space in organs that stop them from functioning normally.'
A tapeworm isn't a mutualistic symbiotic parasite though. I dispute your analogy as the UK has received huge benefits from it's membership in the EU. IMO, the parasitic relationship is not one of commensalism but of mutualism .
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
There's a song by The Smiths (best band EVER!) called "Shakespeare's Sister" and features the following cracking lines:

"Oh, I can smile about it now
But at the time it was terrible"

Morrissey foresaw Brexit! :)
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Just move on, its not worth the hassle :D
When he posted that I immediately thought of white ants and their protozoan hosts, but realised there might be a deeper meaning to all of this and left it hanging while moving on to other posts to read.
 

RMCF

Well-known Member
As an Irish resident, I don't think many voters in the UK thought about the Irish border and/or the Good Friday Agreement at the time of voting.

Having said that, I followed all the campaigning, and it was rarely spoken about.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
As an Irish resident, I don't think many voters in the UK thought about the Irish border and/or the Good Friday Agreement at the time of voting.

Having said that, I followed all the campaigning, and it was rarely spoken about.
They haven't, and it's become clear to me over recent months many still need educating on the history of the border. Those that dismiss it as nothing major do so in error. And perhaps don't understand the impact a No Deal would potentially have on dealing with the US.

Interesting second point too. At some point in this section I was arguing with someone that I didn't think it was mentioned much. They assured me it was.

Nice to get a resident Irish perspective on it. Having friends in Ireland, they have echoed the same.
 

RMCF

Well-known Member
It might have been mentioned in passing, but there was no lengthy debate about how they would resolve the border issue and how it would impact free travel zone and customs controls.
 

Shared

Well-known Member
Voted out, and become more convinced with each passing day that I was right to vote out.
 

Doghouse Riley

Active Member
At this very moment plans are finalised within the EU hierachy to impose a massive percentage increase in contributions from member countries because they're in the mire.
How do I know this?
It's the EU, innit?

They are only delaying the implimentation of this because if they announced it before October 31st, a high proportion the of "remainers" would want to leave too.
 

leedebs

Active Member
Voted out, not changed my view, in fact due to the verbal abuse of some who wanted to stay it has only strengthened my opinion, maybe if those people who were so incensed at the result had sensibly explained reasons for staying I may have taken to debate but......
 

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