DExEU: An Insider’s View

D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
And what does any of that have to do with your accusation that I'm a sh*t stirrer, or that my feelings towards the article shared are somehow wrong, because they differ from yours? You accuse me of bias, and using bias sources, yet clearly state your own bias with regards to the Referendum and therefore the validity of the article. You're no different to me, yet suggest that I'm wrong and resort to name calling.
You accuse the writer of the post piece of having no knowledge, working in a supermarket, yet yours and 007 lacks even basic fundamental political and economic insights. Then try to frame the comments by saying its all about opinions. However, you started the personal assertions about me in another thread. So there you go and here we are bickering.

Basically you were poking fun at someone and I've poked fun back. Now what.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
You accuse the writer of the post piece of having no knowledge, working in a supermarket, yet yours and 007 lacks even basic fundamental political and economic insights. Then try to frame the comments by saying its all about opinions. However, you started the personal assertions about me in another thread. So there you go and here we are bickering.

Basically you were poking fun at someone and I've poked fun back. Now what.

So, back to my first response, was anything I said incorrect? I didn’t accuse him of having no knowledge, I linked to his public LinkedIn account and asked about his apparent rise to the
DexEU. The same query was raised by Bl4ckGryphon, including suggesting that the guy didn’t even write the article himself, yet you’re not showing the same aggressive posting towards him, what’s the difference? Surely you’re not just targeting me because we have different opinions regarding Brexit.

I also haven’t seen you poke fun back at me, just real off a random selection of political wording in the hope that you come across as superior. I’m not sure what thread I’ve already shown personal assertions towards you either?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Both you and rich skirt the line all the time. Rupert is doing the same. I would suggest all three of you drop it.
 
D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
Bl4ckGryphon has a working knowledge that other posters should take note of, so I have quite a bit of respect when he posts.
That'll be the end from me.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Well the last few sentences of post no. 26 explain everything now. So know all I need.

Agreed to moving on.
 

Tiarna

Standard Member
Parliament has just Started The Death of Democracy! Whether you voted Remain or Leave does Not matter to these morons! The fact that 17 .5 million voted in a Democratic referendum is what matters. Any Politician that votes against this result should be Charged with Treason against the People they are supposed to represent. This delay should by stopped Now! If Anybody supports this Second referendum They are NOT Democrats at all! How do Any of the People who want this 2nd referendum feel about a Democratically elected Prime Minister you want. Having the be forced to face a 2nd election? Then a 3rd, 4th etc
 

ostewart

Well-known Member
Parliament has just Started The Death of Democracy! Whether you voted Remain or Leave does Not matter to these morons! The fact that 17 .5 million voted in a Democratic referendum is what matters. Any Politician that votes against this result should be Charged with Treason against the People they are supposed to represent. This delay should by stopped Now! If Anybody supports this Second referendum They are NOT Democrats at all! How do Any of the People who want this 2nd referendum feel about a Democratically elected Prime Minister you want. Having the be forced to face a 2nd election? Then a 3rd, 4th etc

This is a laughable post, as if you look at the definition of a referendum, in the UK, you will see that it is nothing more than an opinion poll. Please do some reseach before posting such nonsense.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
An opinion poll that the government committed to honour the result of. :) However, I wouldn't describe not honouring it as treason :D
 

Tiarna

Standard Member
Your entitled to your opinion, I said Treason toward the people who they claim to represent. I know that the Govt, lawmakers or others will say Treason is only a crime if it is against the crown. If you are willing to elect anyone that doesn't honour an election, even if you like to say it is only an opinion and therefore irrelevant. I will agree then that you are allowed your opinions, it was a vote that the remainers choose to say is Not valid because they had their fingers crossed. Let me say this also, I am European and voted to remain, but i will Not agree with those remainers that now want a vote in Another Opinion Poll! If you wanted to have your Opinion count, You should have got off of your backsides and went to have your Opinions Counted! I have used the word Treason and upset one or two, however I believe that to have another Opinion vote to change the result Is important enough to warrant the use of said word. I am sorry that it has upset a few of you. I think that everybody in this country knew about the vote, Or am I wrong? Please tell us that did vote, why you didnt? Dog ate your polling card? Slept through the alarm? Whatever! I have heard for so long that at the general election if you did not vote, that You do Not have the Right to complain about who won! Have a pleasant evening.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Oh for goodness sake. Hardly any Leavers on this form are that vitriolic against remainers. Yet as a remainer you declare other remainers treasonous?
 

Kandler

Standard Member
Well, they say you should never Google your own name... I guess now I know why!😂

I am the author of the article in question. It is gratifying to know that *somebody* actually read it.

My first point would be to clarify that I resigned from the civil service before writing the article. My duty to the civil service code, which requires impartiality amongst other things, ended at the time of my resignation. The article is clearly an opinion piece, which one might have thought was obvious from its publication on a site called “BrexitCentral.” It doesn’t pretend to be anything else. I think the publishers slightly overplayed it as an insider’s view, but that wasn’t my doing.

Throughout my time at DExEU I abided fully by the civil service code and carried out my duties to the best of my ability, even where I disagreed with what I was being asked to do. A certain cognitive dissonance is expected of civil servants in Whitehall, whereby one takes pride in their work despite sometimes profoundly disagreeing with its direct consequences. Sir Humphrey sums it up best: “most government policy is wrong, but frightfully well carried-out.”

A few of you have pointed out that I worked in a shop before joining the civil service. This is perfectly true. I was 19 at the time; there are very few 19-year-old experienced diplomats! I joined DExEU through an apprenticeship scheme called Fast Track. There were 7 places available for every 220 applicants in 2017, so I must have done *something* right. Applicants were subject to extensive vetting, including an eight-hour interview and observation process overseen by existing civil servants at the final stage.

Let’s be clear; I was never in Brussels negotiating treaties with Barnier. I was a paper pusher based in a converted broom cupboard in Whitehall. It was my first white-collar job and I was in no sense a senior official. Nonetheless, I was good at my job, built connections across the Department and paid attention to the things that came across my desk.

Where I refer to my team as the very best of the civil service, this is of course hyperbolic - I wanted to be clear that I was not criticising the people I worked with, liked and respected. I worked with a lot of people far cleverer than me.

As for the suggestion that I can’t possibly have written the article myself... I’m not sure if this is based on an assumption that people who work in supermarkets are all illiterate? I grew up in a deprived area and was not fortunate enough to attend university, but nonetheless I can assure you that I do not need Dominic Cummings to ghostwrite my inane ramblings for me.

Finally, regarding my C in A Level Economics... hey, it could be a lot worse. I failed Geography altogether. I don’t claim to be prodigious in any sense of the word - I am patently not. But I am slightly disheartened by what I can only describe as an undercurrent of snobbery amongst some in this thread, to the effect that people who work in shops and fail to achieve straight A*s in their exams should have no right to work in the civil service or express an opinion about current affairs.

Our politics benefits when we debate ideas rather than identities. It is slightly odd behaviour to find someone’s LinkedIn profile and use their background to discredit their views rather than engaging with their argument; but I suppose this is the world we live in now!
 
D

Deleted member 27989

Guest
Welcome @Kandler :) I like your response, very suited for this section of an otherwise great forum :smashin:
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Well, they say you should never Google your own name... I guess now I know why!😂

I am the author of the article in question. It is gratifying to know that *somebody* actually read it.

My first point would be to clarify that I resigned from the civil service before writing the article. My duty to the civil service code, which requires impartiality amongst other things, ended at the time of my resignation. The article is clearly an opinion piece, which one might have thought was obvious from its publication on a site called “BrexitCentral.” It doesn’t pretend to be anything else. I think the publishers slightly overplayed it as an insider’s view, but that wasn’t my doing.

Throughout my time at DExEU I abided fully by the civil service code and carried out my duties to the best of my ability, even where I disagreed with what I was being asked to do. A certain cognitive dissonance is expected of civil servants in Whitehall, whereby one takes pride in their work despite sometimes profoundly disagreeing with its direct consequences. Sir Humphrey sums it up best: “most government policy is wrong, but frightfully well carried-out.”

A few of you have pointed out that I worked in a shop before joining the civil service. This is perfectly true. I was 19 at the time; there are very few 19-year-old experienced diplomats! I joined DExEU through an apprenticeship scheme called Fast Track. There were 7 places available for every 220 applicants in 2017, so I must have done *something* right. Applicants were subject to extensive vetting, including an eight-hour interview and observation process overseen by existing civil servants at the final stage.

Let’s be clear; I was never in Brussels negotiating treaties with Barnier. I was a paper pusher based in a converted broom cupboard in Whitehall. It was my first white-collar job and I was in no sense a senior official. Nonetheless, I was good at my job, built connections across the Department and paid attention to the things that came across my desk.

Where I refer to my team as the very best of the civil service, this is of course hyperbolic - I wanted to be clear that I was not criticising the people I worked with, liked and respected. I worked with a lot of people far cleverer than me.

As for the suggestion that I can’t possibly have written the article myself... I’m not sure if this is based on an assumption that people who work in supermarkets are all illiterate? I grew up in a deprived area and was not fortunate enough to attend university, but nonetheless I can assure you that I do not need Dominic Cummings to ghostwrite my inane ramblings for me.

Finally, regarding my C in A Level Economics... hey, it could be a lot worse. I failed Geography altogether. I don’t claim to be prodigious in any sense of the word - I am patently not. But I am slightly disheartened by what I can only describe as an undercurrent of snobbery amongst some in this thread, to the effect that people who work in shops and fail to achieve straight A*s in their exams should have no right to work in the civil service or express an opinion about current affairs.

Our politics benefits when we debate ideas rather than identities. It is slightly odd behaviour to find someone’s LinkedIn profile and use their background to discredit their views rather than engaging with their argument; but I suppose this is the world we live in now!

It’s been a while since I’ve been in this section, but thanks for commenting. When I first responded to the linked article, I saw that it was on BrexitCentral and being lauded as some sort of expose of the DexEU, hence me googling your name to find out more (outside of the less than impartial source sharing your piece). From there I saw your LinkedIn profile and could see the career change, hence my comment about your experience within DexEU. Apologies if that came across as accusatory, I was probably too quick to presume, due to the nature of the piece. In my following posts I did also comment on the information within the piece, as did other posters.

I think your opinion piece was picked up by BrexitCentral as it clearly followed those ideals of many of their readers. If it was misrepresented against why you originally wrote it, have you raised that with BrexitCentral?
 

gyorpb

Well-known Member
I do believe there‘s an entire thread dedicated to discussing the extent to which Ben‘s envisioned brexit opportunities have so far come to fruition.

Most resident brexiters seem unable, recently, to find their way there, however. So here‘s a link: Discussing the impact of Brexit
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
This old thread was a trip down memory lane :)

Old Pat and his love for Briefings for Brexit; one of the worst and most unreliable sites on Brexit there is.

Rupert claiming BG had a working knowledge. On Brexit it turned out to be anything but as it happened :laugh:

Then Ben Knight himself turning up - and then disappearing again immediately. Thinking back I was never quite sold on that cameo.... :D
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
This old thread was a trip down memory lane :)

Old Pat and his love for Briefings for Brexit; one of the worst and most unreliable sites on Brexit there is.

Rupert claiming BG had a working knowledge. On Brexit it turned out to be anything but as it happened :laugh:

Then Ben Knight himself turning up - and then disappearing again immediately. Thinking back I was never quite sold on that cameo.... :D

I’d forgotten about Ben Knight, and his one and only post on the forum. At the time I did think it was odd that someone with actual experience of the DexEU Department, who’s actually written an entire opinion piece about his time there, didn’t add anything further to the Brexit discussions on here.
 
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Erlang168

Well-known Member

A young civil servant at the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) gives an insight into the on-goings of a hapless, remain-led government at the pivotal time in our "negotiations".
The core problem at the heart of our failure to secure a good, strong deal was that Brexit was seen by the people in power as a Pandora’s Box of problems, as a challenge to be mitigated rather than an opportunity to be embraced. That is how we ended up with a Withdrawal Agreement which would deliver a Brexit in name only: because the objective was always to minimise the risks of Brexit, at the expense of any potential gains.

That paragraph is probably absolutely spot on.

The CS had 40+ years experience of the advantages of membership, and their role is always to mitigate the transitory 'ministers' causing too much long-term damage. I shudder to think what it would be like without the Withdrawal Agreement followed by a Hard Brexit.

Co-incidently my wife is from Biggleswade originally and some family is still there, strongly Leave area, I believe.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Just like you on the Brexit thread :D Come back, we miss you

I agreed with a certain Robot its just pointless baiting between the two views so stay out. I may pop in a couple years from now.

Baiting, a bit like your still trying now ;)

I intend my 2022 to be Brexit chat free as possible. This thread is about Scotland and I'm still interested in them having a 2nd vote so...

PS, Brexit thread will never go quiet :D

PSS. I only just realised my original post here was completely in the wrong place ! That was meant to go in the Scottish Referendum thread :facepalm:
 
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