anyone played it on pc yet??tempted but concerned that its had some critisism for being too console game like??
I bought it on PC and it certainly isn't as complex or as "RPGish" as the first. It is still a good game, but very buggy. I had several crashes whilst playing. The game is also VERY console centric in terms of user interface. I wound up getting the Xbox version (part-exing the PC version) which plays much better in this respect. Russell
I couldn't wait and imported it a couple of months ago. If you enjoyed the 1st one then I'd say go for it as it's more of the same. The game is enjoyable but still dissapointing as I was expecting so much more. The maps are no longer huge and tend not to be as involving as the last game. Unfortunately the fact that it was designed primarily for the xbox it's watered it down somewhat. The interface has been more streamlined and the graphics have been updated but not to a level that gives you a wow factor. The story and plot is pretty good but I didn't seem to have as much empathy for the characters this time around. The evironments didn't appear to be as interactive as the last game and the game is only about one third the length of the original which appears to be the trend with games these days. If I had to give is a score I'd give it a 7/10 (must try harder) lets hope thief is going to be better and that they learn from the reaction of pc gamers to the watering down of dxII . If they do the same with theif I'll be non too pleased as this series is the best PC gaming series to be had so far.
Like many things in life, these games are becomming victims of their own success. Games that due to their complexty, depth of gameplay and atmosphere attracted large numbers of supporters .... which the accountants and producers in the gaming industry wish to keep buying the games. Producers seem to want to cobble together parts from popular games to appear similar - and add to that aspects that will appease the lowest common denominator and subtract what they feel may put them off. Things that accountants and producers believe will appeal to the lowest common denominator: flashing banging graphics - the ooooooh look at the pretty lights factor fast action - the special need to stop the exceeding low attention span public getting bored and wandering off and switch on MTV Things that accountants and producers believe will not appeal to the lowest common denominator: anything that requires an IQ of more than 80 any function in the game that might have the sheer audacity to require the reading of a manual any control system that requires the use of anything other than just thumbs. anything that it takes more than 1min to get to an end of level boss or some such with BIG GUNS This rant has been brought to you by the 'owning a console is grounds for the removal of the right to vote' organisation
I had a similar discussion with one of my mates last night and he said something very similar and thats why the music and TV is in such a bad state as it is run to the lowest common denominator rather than up to a standard. As I have just posted in an other thread they have started to monkey around with Thief III, one of the thing making it playable as a 3rd person game. Probably with there eye on the console market.
I have found the best presented games don't require a manual They have a really good learning curve that shows you the basics but expects you to learn the intricacies on your own, games like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, System Shock 2, Black & White.... some very complex games that do not require a manual. However, I do agree that console games are becoming increasingly dumb..... that is one of the reasons I stick to spending ludicrous amounts on my PC, the games you get on the PC are a lot more in-depth and often are written for niche markets (you know people with beards!). Although, it is not fun to buy a flight simulator with a 200 page manual hehehehe
Don't get me wrong I did enjoy it but I had higher expectations that's all. It ticked most of the boxes imo but could've been better. Maybe us pc gamers are expecting too much
Ethics Gradient: The lowest common denominator reminds me of some other mass produced commodity - namely cars. One manufacturer (it may have been Rover or Vauxhall) produced designs and prototypes with the aim of showing them to the public. People would write on the supplied forms what they thought of the car. Any aspect that got too much attention - good or bad - was changed to a less radical design. The idea was that anything so outré would not appeal to as many purchasers as something more compliant. Therefore that company mainly churned out identikit boring cars with only very niche markets getting anything different. This working practice reminds me of what has happened with Deus Ex 2, happening with Thief III and the whole of EA. This dumbing down of ideas and appealing to the wide audience is something the music and film industries have been doing for a lot of years, now, in order to make as much money as possible. This isn't to say the entire games industry will fall into a vat of bland accountancy driven soup. There are still companies that produce the original goods, whether or not we like those games(otherwise they'd be just as bad as all the rest): Black and White, for me, was a complete disaster but it was different and it was adventurous; Super Monkey Ball on Gamecube - again not one of my fav's but I can understand why people like it; Knights of the old Republic - common fare on PC, but on a console! Who'd have thought a console would be home to such a large complex and "PC" title? Call of Cthulhu - Not released yet but it is looking good. Russell
I have got this on Xbox and I am well into it. Cant put it down. If any of you have an xbox I can certainly recommend it. But I could see why the PC version could be a disappointment. Top end P.C can do so much more these days, this was never going to be comparable to the latest PC Games comming out. I never played the first game on the PC really. Is it worth me going back to it ?
The first game is so much better than this palid sequel, it isn't even funny. I have played some way through the game and just can't abide the shallow gameplay. The very un-polished framerates make the FPS part of the game unbearable too. And just how many times do you need to use the stun prod? What incentive is there to sneak by when shooting is so much easier (even though is shouldn't be). Aparrently the PC version has some fixes for game imbalances, and is much smoother than Xbox version. I may wait until more bugs have been sorted and get the PC version second hand. Sorry, bit of a rant there, but I am so dissapointed with this game after the first. Let's hope they don't screw up Theif 3 the same way. Russell
just finished it,not bad but felt the ending was crap,still it passed a week away i guess.............................now what am i going to do
Spoiler ............................................. Yes I just finished playing it for the second time on the PC and it still is a great game and enjoyed it immensely.. My mate gave me a great tip: build your damage up with low tech weapons such as swords and also use the augmentation for the same purpose rather than for lifting heavy objects. Then you can use a sword and the special one later on. Advantages are you can break most locked door open (save your lock picks) and you can take opponents down without using all your ammo up (best at close quarters). Build your jumping skill up as you can get to places otherwise barred to you.
I will certainly revisit this. I have actually got this game somewere. I will dig it out and give it the attention it clearly deserves. I still like the xbox version. Must just be me !
Don't get ahead of yourself, console games have always been "dumb" in comparison to PC games, but I believe the gap is decreasing, not widening as you suggest.
But with the advent of the X-Box are PC games being dumbed down to so the same game can be played on both machines.
Making levels shorter, easier, not requiring as much brain work to get round a problem, making them so you can switch on and play for 10 minutes then switch off, rather than getting down to some quality involving game play time, etc.
Whilst I agree in part with what you're saying, in many ways I don't consider that to be "dumbing down". Speaking of shorter levels etc, I found Call of Duty for one to be over rather quickly, but it was still an intense, highly enjoyable gaming experience. I'd take a single short, good game over a dozen drawn out, poorly constructed boring ones. Also, games which you can pick up and play, and drop just as quickly I don't have a problem with either, and wouldn't consider it "dumbing down" - quite often that fits in with people's lifestyles.
And the obverse side can be said I rather have one involving long level than a dozen short mindless games. Take Thief for example it does not involve any shootem ups, the levels are long, but the game play is totally involving, and those who have played it general end up fan of it and had as a hard core following so much so a site has been set up for it by fans. It also has tones of atmosphere, so much so I have been told peoples wives have run screaming out of the room and others made brown marks on their undies. Or as the was stated earlier Deus Ex 2 is more like a console game, so where does that leave PC Gamers who like the original?
I'm of the opinion that certain genres will be programed as multiformat and thus will be geared towards the lowest common denominator. Deus ex2 was a good example of this imo as it is purely a console game in my eyes and could've been so much more on the pc if the development had been done seperately for each format. I'm afraid I think this will be the trend in future with most titles being multiformat to milk as much money out of the gaming public. Longer and more expensive development times have contributed to this too imo. It's going to be harder to find more involved diverse games in the future for the pc me feels as it's a lot harder to develop a game this way as your not appealing to as many customers and therefore maximising your return. I only hope the thief series continues in the same vain it has in the past and the fact that it's being released on consoles doesn't have the same impact as it did with deus ex 2.
I think the console owners were too busy answering this questionaire to con tribute to the debate on this thread National console owners quiz results
I appreciate what you are saying and yes consoles will never be able to keep up with PC game developements. Thus you will get games on the PC you wont be able to get at the same standard on the consoles. But I still thought Deus ex2 was a good game. And lets be fair. As long as console gamers want to buy inferior consoles (Sony) console gaming will always be second best.
I did enjoy it and thought it was a good game just not as good as it could've been if the pc version was developed seperately. If they utilised all of the technology and power offered by a modern pc it could've been so much better. The fact that it was a cross format produced game newted the game somewhat. All imo of course
Though it is true that PC developments will always overtake consoles in terms of raw power, this doesn't mean that involving games can't be done on consoles. Knights of the old republic is a fantastic game that started on console and was ported to the PC. It had depth, character and a (reasonably) good story. Therefore, there is no excuse for Deus Ex 2 not having the same involvement as the original on consoles. Russell
much like microwave meals ....... *** generalised rant follows: *** They fit it with 'some' peoples lifestyles but not everyones. From my perspective there are 3 distinct groups of computer game users: gamers, casual games players and 'general children gamers'. Gamers: Invest time and effort getting into the games they play, building up skill levels or characters - be it tactical war games, role playing and aventure games or fps clan gameing. They generally look for depth of enviroment and characters - places to explore, landscapes to exploit and hard learned techniques. Casual players: Come in from the office, the pub or inbetween other distractions and fire up a game that you can jump straight into - fire a few shots and make a few explosions. They don't want to have to mess about exploring huge areas, spend time working out where to allocate stat points or spend several hours at a time practicing a technique with a weapon or stratergy. They want to be able to switch on - run through levels and finish so they can turn off and get back to other important things in thier lives. General children players: The younger player that likes to spend hours messing about with their wwf wrestling player heros - not necessarily achieving much in the way of sucess ... or the latest cartoon characters in a badly constructed shambles of a game. Not really playing a game as much as 'playing' with a game machine or computer. cynical game manufacturers seem to be makeing games for the last two groups because it quick easy and cheap. Less developement time and effort goes into makeing a game where they just slap in the stereo typical heros and baddies with end of level bosses and some big explosions - you only need to use 4 buttons and 1/1000th of your brain. Easier to bang out another super hero ninja turtles game (see if anyone remembers how diabolically bad that was) that kids will demand their parents buy - rather than invest the time effort and expense of makeing a game that 'gamers' will crave because it gets decent reviews.
Consoles are not only lagging behind in the latest technology which PC games can keep up with but some do not have the benefits of the PC such as HD and large amounts of memory (although the X-Box does). So makers seem to either make their levels short to fit or need a lot of loading off the disc in levels.