Desperately need help, have i damaged my speakers

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Molliwopp, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    First time poster but have visited the site on many occasions. Right well my problem is this!!! I've been using a a300 Cambridge audio amp to power a pair of wharfedale 10.2 the amp being 50w pc and the speakers being 100w. I haven't noticed any clipping but did notice distortion when turned it up loud. I never new under power was worse than overpowered. So whenevrr it would distort I would, by ear turn it down until I couldn't hear it. The amp doesn't give a db. reading so I dont know how loud I pushed it but probably over halfway afew times though. Maybe 3/4 when I was try to annoy the neighbours. What are the chances ive damaged my speakers. There about 5 months old and haven't had much use if that even matters.
    :(
     
  2. PSM1

    PSM1
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    As long as you turned it down when it started to distort you will have done no damage to the speakers at all so no need to worry.
     
  3. MaturityDodger

    MaturityDodger
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    Sound advice from PSM1 to your actual question. But for a little background reading that you might find useful or interesting...

    Clipping is not necessarily caused just by having an underpowered amplifier.
    It's more likely to come if your amp isn't capable of pumping out enough current relative to the (voltage) gain levels it sets itself. So lower-impedance speakers with an amp that can't give much current is a combination that causes clipping too.
    In my experience of older CA amps like the A300, they have quite a lot of gain. I had one (the 65W version 2) and it was reasonably loud by about 15% on the dial. Turn it up, and although I'd assume it was trying to increase linearly, it just couldn't give enough current to keep up with itself.
     
  4. Molliwopp

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    Thanks for the quick reply! Im known to over worry about anything. One minute I'm not botherd and the next minute im at the other end of the spectrum. I do have another question... weather its applicable in this thread I'm not sure. I got a pair of celestion dl4s and they kick out such such a nicer sound using my ca300 than my wharfes. The only thing better in the wharfes is the low end. But there such an old speaker. And it confused me quite alot having spent a couple of hundred on the 10s I didn't expect much from the celestion dl4s but it actually made me smile inside hearing them. They didn't cost anything someone was literaly tipping them in a skip. There 8ohm 89db and 10-75w. Any idea. I'm making a 5.1 out of wharfes and I'm really considering a different speaker
     
  5. PSM1

    PSM1
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    A good speaker will remain a good speaker for many many years. Not sure how good the Celestion was in its day but if was good then it will still be good now. Your Wharfedale Diamonds are pretty much an entry level speaker, good for the money but not a particularly high end model. Hence you may need to move up the speaker ranges to get something that satisfies you (although this will cost more).
    The other explaination is the Wharfedales paired with the CA receiver is just not to your personal taste hence a different make of speaker could be needed.
     
  6. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    Indeed, well I think I may change speakers if its the case. I'll be getting the denon 2312 at the end of Feb so I will decide if I like the match with the wharfedales. Living an hour and a half away from any richer sounds is so irritating not being able to demo anything. At 400beans the denon is hard to beat am I right? Have you had any exp with denon and if so is there a speaker u can suggest? I may even look into preowned speakers can u recommend a speaker for 200-300beans second hand or new. Everyone seem to rate BnW speakers. I thinly its the 685 I was looking at wud they be an improvement and do u think theyd match the denon. Bookshelf speakers are what I'm looking at.
     
  7. PSM1

    PSM1
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    The Denon 2312 is a real bargain at £400 so I do not think you can go far wrong. Not sure how well it is going to pair with your Wharfedales as both are considered warm sounding but you would have to listen to know this. B&W speakers are often recommended for Denon receivers so should be a good match. You should also look out for some Focals (700/800 series) as these are often overlooked speakers but very good IMHO. Monitor audio speakers would also be worth looking at. If looking new then the BX range would be the one to listen too but if looking second hand then you may be able to get some RS speakers within budget (if not then look at the BR range).
     
  8. Molliwopp

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    Ouch, some expensive alternatives lol. They all seen highly rated though. I like the look of those focals actually and I've only ever heard the name afew times so your probably right by saying they're underrated. It's annoying because I was going to get the mabronze and at the last minute bought the wharfedales! I should do whatever I can to audition speakers. I should of spent more money on a 2.0 and then later bought other bits, and that's what I'm going to do!! I've decided. Those silvers look sooo sexy too. I will definitely get the avr and go from there. Can I also say I'm not looking for blow your face off power but precision and detail. My theatre is in a small room just under 4x4m. Nothing in the room except a sofa recliner and a piece of pine furniture 11ft long. Long enough for everything to fit on. Is it worth raising the speakers somehow? Or can I just place them toward the front edge so there isn't as much reflection? ... oOo and do u wanna buy a pair of wharfedale 10.2 while I'm here;)
     
  9. PSM1

    PSM1
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    Speakers are not going to sound their best on a a cabinet. You would be better getting some proper speaker stands and put them either side of the unit. If your current Wharfedales are on the unit then stands may help them to sound better as well. A speaker on a unit will interact with the unit and this will affect sound quality.
    Higher end equipment is not about the power (although higher end amp will have more power) but the improved clarity an separation of sound. Something like the RS/RX range will give improvements in both. The Focal also had great clarity and separation (better than the BR range when I demoed them back to back). The only issue with the focals is that they are not the best with the deep stuff but by the sounds of it heavy bass is not a big requirement for you and a sub can always fill that in anyway. Definately go and demo a lot of different options so you understand what you like, it is also a lot of fun playing with all the different equipment.
     
  10. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    Argh! More complications then. I'd love to get rid of the pine unit altogether but I can't. And its too long to have speakers in each corner. The unit covers the whole wall and only leaves half a metre each side. The speakers would be too far apart. The rooms 3.5m one way and 4m the other so I've obviously positioned it acousticly. What about on a small stand on the unit? Or I guess:S I could move the unit again to a different wall and have my tv on a stand. But then is feel like I had to fork out double for some floor standers. Ideally I want to leave everything where it is because aestheticly it looks much better. Is there anything that can stop the furniture effecting sound? Might have to get afew pics up to show u how it is. Any info appreciated
     
  11. PSM1

    PSM1
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    A few pics would certainly help. You could try some isolation pods (or squash balls cut in half) and have the speakers so that the fronts areat least level with the front of the unit. This may help but it will still not be ideal. What the speakers need is a solid, non resonating base to sound their best. Although the 10.2 are commonly called bookshelf speakers, they do not like being put on shelves, a better name for them is standmounts as they really should be on proper speaker stands to sound their best. If looking to spend more on better speakers then to make it worthwhile you will need to find a way to get them on proper speaker stands.
     
  12. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    Right new question, i manged to sort all that other things out. Ive changed amp and cd player to a CA640 v2 and now they sound great now. Im looking at a av system now for the same room. Ive got it down to 2 options. A denon 1912 with kef 2005.2 or an onkyo 509 with wharfedale 9.0s and a 9cc. Which do you think would be the better choice? If you were spending the money which wud you buy.
     
  13. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    I think either would be big/loud enough for my room and are around the same price but which do you think would sound better IYO?
     
  14. PSM1

    PSM1
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    The 1912 is a better receiver and the 2005 are good speakers so this would probably be the one I would go for (assuming you will not be listening to much music on the system due to the other amp/CD player in the room).
     
  15. Molliwopp

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    Well the denon is only 269 now which is a steal. Kef eggs should be a good match too right? Is the subwoofer included as good as say the sw150? I know a direct comparison is hard to answer.
     
  16. MaturityDodger

    MaturityDodger
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    Not sure on the merits of each of the options you mention, but I'd just like to throw a potential spanner in the works for you.

    To save on clutter and possibly expense, you can share the same pair of speakers for your stereo hi-fi and the fronts in your surround setup.
    All you need is a speaker switch like the Beresford TC-7220 TC-7220 AUDIO ROUTER
    Bear in mind though, that for your 5.1, you want to have well-matched fronts and centre. Matching to the surrounds is less importand, and subwoofer almost irrelevant.
     
  17. Molliwopp

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    Well i think the matching centre for the 10.2, the cm or even the cs are to big and wud block the bottom half of my tv unless i found a neat and tidy way of rasing it up. I like the sound of using my 10.2s in the 5.1 because the subwoofer wouldnt be missed while i collected the funds to buy one. But at the same time i dont look at more speakers as clutter but decoration of the room.
     
  18. MaturityDodger

    MaturityDodger
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    I'm guessing you don't live with a wife/girlfriend/partner ;)

    (if you are female yourself, then I apologise!)
     
  19. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    Lol no im a guy but molliwopp is quite misleading. But defining what it means would be breaking the rules. The kefs are quite small anyway and for a 4x3m room doesnt need a wharfedale 10. 5.1 or 7.1 it would be total overkill. In this room my ca 640 and whafe kick out more than enough sound. The fact that the rears have to be away from the wall would put them far too close to the seating position. Wouldnt be able to walk around them. I can get the kef 2005.2 for 350ish and the denon for 269 totaling 620ish. Can u think of anything else that can match for this price?
     
  20. Gixxerblade

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    I would buy a receiver with pre-outs and use your front speakers for music and movies. A good or even bad dealer should be able to advise and hopefully demonstrate the options if you live near one.
     
  21. Molliwopp

    Molliwopp
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    Right.. Im getting the denon 1912. I can get a pair of wharfedale 9.0 for cheap. Should i risk it or just wait for a set of 2005s?
     
  22. 33L

    33L
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    Did you manage to find a 9cc in stock as I haven't and wouldn't mind one.
     
  23. Molliwopp

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    Theres afew on ebay actually but not in black. Mmm i dunno what to do about the wharfedales or kefs. Anyone heard either denon
     
  24. 33L

    33L
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    After the black one myself, may end up after different center altogether. Not sure which.
     
  25. Molliwopp

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    Im not expert but choosing a different centre if you already have 9s for the front is a bad choice because the tone at the front idealy wants to be the same. Just buy one in a different colour? Theres some beach 9.0s on ebay and a beach centre, if you dont have your rears you could move the black ones to the back. I dunno, it could work.
     
  26. Molliwopp

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    Went for alittle demo of the denon 1912 today and thought it sounded good. I rang up and he said hed connected some 3005s to it that morning.
    But when i arrived the assistant tried to fool me by having a sound bar wired underneath hidden! And i nelt down to look at the amp and noticed where the sound wasbcoming from. And the assistant acted like id caught him having relations with my wife when i pointed out that the sound wasnt coming out of the 3005s. The sub was connected on the other hand and that was powerful enough to shake afew thing off there stands actually.
    Pitty i didnt get to hear any speakers other than (i think) a kef sound bar.
    The denon 1912 is definitely enough for my requirments and at 269 is an absolute steal. Will be placing my order tomorrow.
     
  27. Molliwopp

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    So now i ask you.. Mordaunt short alumni, wharfedale 9s, kef 2005s. Or something else? Im gonna try my wharfedale 10.2s out when it arrives and see if i like the sound. The dealer at the shop i demoed wanted 315 for the denon! Dropped to 300 but wouldnt match online. Im just thinking weather its worth buying from them because its close and if anything goes wrong i can take it back to them instead of posting! Any thoughts?
     
  28. KUBBY

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    This is the same dealer that concealed a soundbar in your Demo?

    Do you want to deal with this Person??



    K.
     
  29. Molliwopp

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    I know but he did mention before the demo that the 'main' guy wasnt there who i spoke to on the phone about the demo. But he still tried to fool me yes. He said he could do me some 3005 for 800 which i thinks reasonable. Or the denon with a set of 1005s for 550. Ideally if funds allowed the 3005 would be my choice but there expensive little thinga arnt they! But the sub is very very beautiful. Argh i need money lol.
     
  30. KUBBY

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    I'm sure that someone will correct me if necessary but,that 3005 set seems a little cheap.I can only find it at £899 after a quick look round.

    Going back to this dealer,does he have a 1912 on display? why not take your 10.2s along and get a demo with them and the 1912? you don't have to buy it from him,but you'll see how they sound together.


    K.
     

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