Denon x2300w - Atmos on Firestick 4k?

cybergambit

Active Member
Hi all,

I have just got hold of a Denon x2300w (small step upgrade from my previous H/K AVR171). The main reason being that Iwanted to experience Dolby Atmos.

The issue is that I cannot get Atmos to work through my Firestick 4k (plugged into the Media Player HDMI of the receiver). I have Atmos working through the same Firestick when it is plugged into my Atmos enabled soundbar in the other room - Disney+ and Prime TV all state Atmos on certain content and also on the OSD when played), however when plugged into the receiver, everything shows 5.1 and also it only has DD+ surround on the OSD as audio input.

Any ideas?

By the way I also have a Roku+ stick plugged into the receiver and it does have Atmos working for AppleTV on there, so know that the receiver can do Atmos and also that the Firestick can do Atmos... they just won’t do it together!!

Thanks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Soundbars are a different beast to a full surround sound system when it comes to Atmos. To get Atmos with the X2300 you need a total of seven speakers in a 5.1.2 configuration. If you only have five in a 5.1 then the Denon will not decode or produce Atmos.

Can you confirm that you have the requisite number of speakers and are correctly configured within the Denon.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Soundbars are a different beast to a full surround sound system when it comes to Atmos. To get Atmos with the X2300 you need a total of seven speakers in a 5.1.2 configuration. If you only have five in a 5.1 then the Denon will not decode or produce Atmos.

Can you confirm that you have the requisite number of speakers and are correctly configured within the Denon.
Hi, thanks for your reply.

Here is my setup:

1. I have 2x speakers connected to the “Surround Back” outputs on the Denon (as well as of course the other 5x speakers + sub connected to the standard 5.1).
2. Within the Denon settings, I have the Bi-Amp set to “Front Atmos” (front upfiring) and when I carry out a test tone, all 7 speakers emit the tone correctly.
3. Even when watching Standard 5.1 (DD+) content, the info in the Denon shows the input signal for 5.1 but my output shows 7.1 (with the Atmos speakers still outputting some sound.. not sure what channel its duplicating, but there is sound).

As mentioned, Apple TV via a Roku stick shows on screen (in content details) Atmos labels and when playing that content, the Denon display says Atmos, the info says input signal as Atmos and there is sound from all speakers. It’s the Firestick which does not have Atmos showing for Disney+ or Prime via the Denon (but the same Firestick works fine when plugged into either my soundbar or my Atmos enabled TV in the other room). If you’re wondering why I dont’t just use the Roku... Roku doesn’t have Atmos for Disney+ or Prime.

I’ve checked all the audio settings on the stick and they are all set to enhanced, best available etc. Etc. (And actually remain unchanged from when working in the TV and soundbar anyway).
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Is you reassigned the back channel amplification and associated speaker terminals as FRONT HEIGHT then you would get Atmos, but if the speakers are still on your back wall or where back surrounds would ordinarilly be located then what you'd hear wouldn't be portrayed as intended. The speakers would be in the wrong location if assigning them as front heights. The options and the speaker locations are all illustrated in the owners manual.

No idea as to how to configure your source devices. You'd need to ask about the audio configurations needed to get Atmos in the relevant forum and or thread.

FRONT HEIGHT speakers sh=hould be located high up on your front wall. above your front left and right speakers and not at the back of the room.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Is you reassigned the back channel amplification and associated speaker terminals as FRONT HEIGHT then you would get Atmos, but if the speakers are still on your back wall or where back surrounds would ordinarilly be located then what you'd hear wouldn't be portrayed as intended. The speakers would be in the wrong location if assigning them as front heights. The options and the speaker locations are all illustrated in the owners manual.

No idea as to how to configure your source devices. You'd need to ask about the audio configurations needed to get Atmos in the relevant forum and or thread.

FRONT HEIGHT speakers sh=hould be located high up on your front wall. above your front left and right speakers and not at the back of the room.
On the Denon, the “Front Height” (height speakers pointing down to listener) and “Front Atmos” (upfiring speakers sitting on top of the standard L/R front speakers) are different selectable options. The speakers are still plugged into the “Surround Back” outputs in the back of the receiver, but they are assignable to multiple options. I have selected these as “Front Atmos” and they are upfiring from the front.

Unfortunately, my issue has not even got as far as the correct positioning of the speakers anyway - I’m not able to get an Atmos signal detected from the Firestick.

But as you’ve mentioned, it seems to be a Firestick issue needing resolve rather than receiver because the receiver has played Atmos sound from the other Roku stick in Apple TV. So I guess I need to post in the other forum relating.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If able to portray Atmos and if the AV receiver is indicating it is receiving and detecting Atmos metadata from other sources then the issue isn't with the AV receiver.

The issue is with the source not giving you Atmos which in this case would be your Firestick. THe receiver isn't indicating that ir is receiving Atmos from the Firestick simply because the Firestick isn't outputting anything inclusive of Atmosmetadata.

If all your speakers are being engaged while only receiving audio not inclusive of Atmos or DTS:X metafata then I'd suggest that you've an upmixing mode such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X engaged? These modes create additional channels for speakers that don't have a discrete channel present in the source or for sources not inclusive of Atmos or DTS:X metafata. Only these modes or the all channel stereo option as well as actual Atmos and DTS:X metadata would result in you getting anything from your upward firing speakers. ERgo, you've such a mode engaged if all the speakers are active even if not receiving Atmos or DTS:X audio.

Also note that if you've engaged the Neural:X mode relative to a source then the AV receiver will ignore any Atmos metadata present in the stream and simply give you the DD+ or TrueHD channel based audio with Neiral:X upmixing being applied to it.
 
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jwlawler

Active Member
I don't know whether your X2300W is the same as my X3200W but do you have a button on the remote labelled Info? It should show the type of signal being received and what is being output.

I have not had trouble with my 4k Firestick. I just plugged it in and it worked. Quite a few Atmos titles on Disney including the 4K remastered versions of the original Star Wars films. A few Atmos titles on Prime but you don't know whether they are Atmos until you play them. Jack Ryan is an example. I don't get Atmos from Netflix on the Firestick though I do from the app on my Samsung TV. The only reason that the Firestick is connected is that the Disney app on the TV does not give me Atmos.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
If able to portray Atmos and if the AV receiver is indicating it is receiving and detecting Atmos metadata from other sources then the issue isn't with the AV receiver.

The issue is with the source not giving you Atmos which in this case would be your Firestick. THe receiver isn't indicating that ir is receiving Atmos from the Firestick simply because the Firestick isn't outputting anything inclusive of Atmosmetadata.

If all your speakers are being engaged while only receiving audio not inclusive of Atmos or DTS:X metafata then I'd suggest that you've an upmixing mode such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X engaged? These modes create additional channels for speakers that don't have a discrete channel present in the source or for sources not inclusive of Atmos or DTS:X metafata. Only these modes or the all channel stereo option as well as actual Atmos and DTS:X metadata would result in you getting anything from your upward firing speakers. ERgo, you've such a mode engaged if all the speakers are active even if not receiving Atmos or DTS:X audio.

Also note that if you've engaged the Neural:X mode relative to a source then the AV receiver will ignore any Atmos metadata present in the stream and simply give you the DD+ or TrueHD channel based audio with Neiral:X upmixing being applied to it.
Thanks for the revert - completely agree that the issue must be with the Firestick (or at least the AVR settings to facilitate the Firestick) as Atmos has worked with the Roku. I am testing an Atmos blu-ray (San Andreas) via my PS4 later today to see what happens there.

Regarding engaging my Front up firing speakers for non-Atmos content - it is correct that the signal coming in is DD+ and getting up scaled to be 7.1 output using the updating front as “fake” surrounds.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If the incoming ay=udio is neither Atmos or DTS:X then the upfiring speakers will not be engaged unless you apply Dolby Surround Upmixing or DTS Neural:X upmixing to the audio. The only other mode that would engage those speakers in the Multichannel Surround mode.

Dolby Surround Upmixer
When you invest in a Dolby Atmos home theater, you expect to get full use of all the components, even when the content you are playing is not mixed in Dolby Atmos. This includes taking advantage of overhead and Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to further enhance the playback experience.
Included in the Dolby Atmos technology bundle is a new advanced upmixer designed to be compatible with traditional channel-based as well as Dolby Atmos speaker systems. The Dolby surround upmixer expands the audio of channel-based content, including native stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 content, for playback through a Dolby Atmos system-regardless of speaker number or placement-while simultaneously honoring and maintaining the artist’s intent for the mix.
The Dolby surround upmixer analyzes and processes multiple perceptually spaced frequency bands, accurately steering each individually. The result is a surround playback experience characterized by precisely located audio elements and a more spacious ambience.
In a Dolby Atmos system, the channel-based mix is fully honored. Dolby Atmos enabled speakers and overhead speakers are employed to lend a sense of atmospherics or room effect to the listening experience. This new technology will process and upmix channel- based content to as many as 17 speaker locations at listener level and to 10 Dolby Atmos enabled or overhead speakers. Note: To maintain an accurate frontal audio image, the upmixer will not send upmixed audio to the left wide and right wide speakers or any speakers that are located between the left, center, and right speakers. Audio is not upmixed to the center surround speaker.
A center spread on/off control enables you to spread the center image across a wider front soundstage. This optional feature is ideally suited for playback of two-channel music content or playback of channel-based content in a home theater design that employs a wider screen configuration than typical installations.
Select the Dolby surround and center spread function from the user interface of the AVR or preprocessor, or from the system’s remote control.



DSU basically creates pseudo Atmos if applied to non Atmos sources. DTS Neural:X has much the same effect, but creates pseudo DTS:X as opposed to Atmos.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
I don't know whether your X2300W is the same as my X3200W but do you have a button on the remote labelled Info? It should show the type of signal being received and what is being output.

I have not had trouble with my 4k Firestick. I just plugged it in and it worked. Quite a few Atmos titles on Disney including the 4K remastered versions of the original Star Wars films. A few Atmos titles on Prime but you don't know whether they are Atmos until you play them. Jack Ryan is an example. I don't get Atmos from Netflix on the Firestick though I do from the app on my Samsung TV. The only reason that the Firestick is connected is that the Disney app on the TV does not give me Atmos.
Thanks, this is great to hear! It means that something I’m doing is causing it not to work and can be fixed!

I have got the Info button and when Atmos is recognised (Apple TV via Roku), it says incoming signal is “Dolby Atmos”, when it is anything else, it shows the all the speakers in the set up and makes blue the ones engaged - and usually says “DOLBY digital + Surround”. This is the case for any Firestick apps I run.

As you rightly said, Disney+ was my go to app for Atmos, with most content showing ATMOS within the description itself and this works fine when in the TV it soundbar... but only shows 5.1 when in the Denon. I’m going to post some settings screenshots on here later on today and hoping you could help me get to the bottom of this as you seem to have a very similar model and have got it working so must just need a tinker...

Just a final point in case it is relevant, but my projector is 1080p (not 4K) so the AVR only displays “HD” on all the titles in Disney+. Can this be affecting there Atmos also, I read somewhere that if the video output is not 4K, the sound sometimes does not allow Atmos, but that doesn’t sound right. Can I ask if the display you are using is 4K?

Thanks
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Just a final point in case it is relevant, but my projector is 1080p (not 4K) so the AVR only displays “HD” on all the titles in Disney+. Can this be affecting there Atmos also, I read somewhere that if the video output is not 4K, the sound sometimes does not allow Atmos, but that doesn’t sound right. Can I ask if the display you are using is 4K?

Thanks


Atmos audio is ordinarilly only included/available with the 4K UHD variant of content accessed via streaming services.

You cannot access the Atmos soundtrack via the streaming services if unable to access the 4K version of the video and display it.
 
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jwlawler

Active Member
Thanks, this is great to hear! It means that something I’m doing is causing it not to work and can be fixed!

I have got the Info button and when Atmos is recognised (Apple TV via Roku), it says incoming signal is “Dolby Atmos”, when it is anything else, it shows the all the speakers in the set up and makes blue the ones engaged - and usually says “DOLBY digital + Surround”. This is the case for any Firestick apps I run.

As you rightly said, Disney+ was my go to app for Atmos, with most content showing ATMOS within the description itself and this works fine when in the TV it soundbar... but only shows 5.1 when in the Denon. I’m going to post some settings screenshots on here later on today and hoping you could help me get to the bottom of this as you seem to have a very similar model and have got it working so must just need a tinker...

Just a final point in case it is relevant, but my projector is 1080p (not 4K) so the AVR only displays “HD” on all the titles in Disney+. Can this be affecting there Atmos also, I read somewhere that if the video output is not 4K, the sound sometimes does not allow Atmos, but that doesn’t sound right. Can I ask if the display you are using is 4K?

Thanks

Yes, I am using a 4k display, a quite new Samsung. I have had the Denon for longer than the TV but I added the Atmos speakers after getting the TV. So, I have never run the Denon with Atmos speakers and a 1080 display. I could experiment next weekend but it seems that Dante has cracked it.

Do you have a UHD disk player? It would be interesting to see whether you can get Atmos from a disc but a 1080 image.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Atmos audio is ordinarilly only included/available with the 4K UHD variant of content accessed via streaming services.

You cannot access the Atmos soundtrack via the streaming services if unable to access the 4K version of the video and display it.
But then how is Apple TV outputting Atmos on the Roku? So confused!!
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Yes, I am using a 4k display, a quite new Samsung. I have had the Denon for longer than the TV but I added the Atmos speakers after getting the TV. So, I have never run the Denon with Atmos speakers and a 1080 display. I could experiment next weekend but it seems that Dante has cracked it.

Do you have a UHD disk player? It would be interesting to see whether you can get Atmos from a disc but a 1080 image.
Yes, I think Dante has made a very relevant point - but Atmos working with Apple TV throws me off in this situation...

I am also going to try and connect the Denon to a 4K TV and see what happens.

I don’t have a UHD blu ray player - I’m going to use the PS4 to play a standard blu ray which has Atmos soundtrack. Which again says that a 4K video stream is not necessarily required for Atmos (I assume the difference is Atmos over a DD+ stream is fine, but True Atmos requires a 4K stream?).
 

jwlawler

Active Member
Yes, I think Dante has made a very relevant point - but Atmos working with Apple TV throws me off in this situation...

I am also going to try and connect the Denon to a 4K TV and see what happens.

I don’t have a UHD blu ray player - I’m going to use the PS4 to play a standard blu ray which has Atmos soundtrack. Which again says that a 4K video stream is not necessarily required for Atmos (I assume the difference is Atmos over a DD+ stream is fine, but True Atmos requires a 4K stream?).

There is no technological need for 4k and Atmos to be linked. Not all 4k discs have Atmos and some 1080p discs do. I think that the point is that some streaming services choose to link them. E.g. to get Atmos, you may need to pay for their 4k option even if you don't want it. It had not occurred to me but it could also be the case that if your equipment says "I can't do 2160p" then the service not only drops the video quality but the audio as well.

I don't have a Roku, maybe they don't link 2160p and Atmos and give you the audio and video that you can cope with.
 
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cybergambit

Active Member
There is no technological need for 4k and Atmos to be linked. Not all 4k discs have Atmos and some 1080p discs do. I think that the point is that some streaming services choose to link them. E.g. to get Atmos, you may need to pay for their 4k option even if you don't want it. It had not occurred to me but it could also be the case that if your equipment says "I can't do 2160p" then the service not only drops the video quality but the audio as well.

I don't have a Roku, maybe they don't link 2160p and Atmos and give you the audio and video that you can cope with.
Yes that’s an excellent consideration - I didn’t consider that the streaming services may link 4K with Atmos so that if you are not in 4K it also automatically drops the sound to 5.1. I will test out the Denon plugged into my fully capable TV and put that to the test.

If that is the case, then it’s disappointing that I would need a 4K projector (which is exponentially more expensive than a 1080p) just so that I can make full use of my (theoretically) visually unrelated audio and speaker equipment. Especially as I personally don’t believe that 4K projection is as much of a huge step up from HD as it is for “traditional” TV viewing.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, I am using a 4k display, a quite new Samsung. I have had the Denon for longer than the TV but I added the Atmos speakers after getting the TV. So, I have never run the Denon with Atmos speakers and a 1080 display. I could experiment next weekend but it seems that Dante has cracked it.

Do you have a UHD disk player? It would be interesting to see whether you can get Atmos from a disc but a 1080 image.


You can and should be able to still get Atmos via a UHD player even if the output and the display it is going to are not 4K.

Many conventional Blu-ray tutles include Atmos soundtracks.
 

jwlawler

Active Member
Yes that’s an excellent consideration - I didn’t consider that the streaming services may link 4K with Atmos so that if you are not in 4K it also automatically drops the sound to 5.1. I will test out the Denon plugged into my fully capable TV and put that to the test.

If that is the case, then it’s disappointing that I would need a 4K projector (which is exponentially more expensive than a 1080p) just so that I can make full use of my (theoretically) visually unrelated audio and speaker equipment. Especially as I personally don’t believe that 4K projection is as much of a huge step up from HD as it is for “traditional” TV viewing.
Some tricks may be possible. I bought a Sony X500 UHD player as it was a cheap way to play UHDs and SACDs (which interested me). By default, it upscales 1080 discs to 2160. I hear that the slightly more expensive X700 has some apps. Maybe, it can downscale 2160 to 1080 and fool Disney. No promises here, I am just guessing.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Some tricks may be possible. I bought a Sony X500 UHD player as it was a cheap way to play UHDs and SACDs (which interested me). By default, it upscales 1080 discs to 2160. I hear that the slightly more expensive X700 has some apps. Maybe, it can downscale 2160 to 1080 and fool Disney. No promises here, I am just guessing.
Leading on from @dante01 comment, I was going to ask exactly this same question... Would a UHD player which has the streaming apps included loophole the situation and force Atmos via HD from the likes of Netflix/Disney+ etc?
 

jwlawler

Active Member
Leading on from @dante01 comment, I was going to ask exactly this same question... Would a UHD player which has the streaming apps included loophole the situation and force Atmos via HD from the likes of Netflix/Disney+ etc?
Since I have the cheaper model without the apps, I can't test it for you.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
You can and should be able to still get Atmos via a UHD player even if the output and the display it is going to are not 4K.

Many conventional Blu-ray tutles include Atmos soundtracks.
So I got around to testing the blu ray in my PS4 (Bitstream pass through setting on PS4) and it outputs Atmos (tried San Andreas, awful movie but great sound). So Atmos with 1080p is workable in this instance.

It seems that the issue lies with the Firestick itself - most likely the explanation given so far which is that the Firestick is not wanting to play Atmos on any of the streaming services because the video output is 1080p.

I’ll hook up a TV to the Denon and see if I can at least put this part of it to bed.

72F10041-3F63-4491-9EA2-04942CA55F17.jpeg
 

jwlawler

Active Member
So I got around to testing the blu ray in my PS4 (Bitstream pass through setting on PS4) and it outputs Atmos (tried San Andreas, awful movie but great sound). So Atmos with 1080p is workable in this instance.

It seems that the issue lies with the Firestick itself - most likely the explanation given so far which is that the Firestick is not wanting to play Atmos on any of the streaming services because the video output is 1080p.

I’ll hook up a TV to the Denon and see if I can at least put this part of it to bed.

View attachment 1506156
Atmos with 1080p is definitely workable but it does not prove that you can get around the problem of a streaming service deciding to link the two. Part of the reason to link the two is the obvious answer: money; it forces those who want either 2160p or Atmos to pay a higher fee. Another possible answer is that it is easier for them to have just two streams: 2160p with Atmos and 1080p without. I guess that quite a few might want 2160p but not care about Atmos but the other group (you) who wants Atmos but not 2160p is probably quite small.

Another example is the Atmos demos. They are Atmos but 1080p (well the ones that I have anyway).

So, if this is the explanation then you need to find a way to fool the service into thinking that you can do 2160p and Atmos. Of course, this will mean that you are pulling more video data down and then discarding much of it.

Are streaming apps available for your PS4? Do you have a laptop? That is worth trying before you buy a UHD player.
 

cybergambit

Active Member
Atmos with 1080p is definitely workable but it does not prove that you can get around the problem of a streaming service deciding to link the two. Part of the reason to link the two is the obvious answer: money; it forces those who want either 2160p or Atmos to pay a higher fee. Another possible answer is that it is easier for them to have just two streams: 2160p with Atmos and 1080p without. I guess that quite a few might want 2160p but not care about Atmos but the other group (you) who wants Atmos but not 2160p is probably quite small.

Another example is the Atmos demos. They are Atmos but 1080p (well the ones that I have anyway).

So, if this is the explanation then you need to find a way to fool the service into thinking that you can do 2160p and Atmos. Of course, this will mean that you are pulling more video data down and then discarding much of it.

Are streaming apps available for your PS4? Do you have a laptop? That is worth trying before you buy a UHD player.
Thanks for this.

Yes, its absolutely the case that the services (and especially Disney+ in this instance) is linking the 4k with Atmos and so if it detects your display is only HD, that automatically means 5.1 audio as the attached audio stream. Strangely AppleTV+ does not even switch to HD, instead it still inputs 4k video (and hence Atmos audio) for the AVR to then downconvert to the HD only projector.

None of the PS4 streaming apps give Atmos either (even when 4k), but setting the audio to Bitstream (Dolby) does produce the Atmos I showed in the San Andreas blu-ray example. I tried the Dolby demos (MKV and M2TS files) but they all played video fine but gave an error “audio cannot be played on this file” overlay on top and was silent,

I haven’t tried my laptop yet. I will do that as my next test,
 

jwlawler

Active Member
My first attempt to attach a picture. Here I am playing a Star Wars film from Disney using a Firestick connected to my X3200W and Samsung TV. If I used the app on the TV, I would not get Atmos.
 

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  • Atmos.jpg
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