Denon upgrade thoughts

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Why on earth would you pay £800 for secondhand electronics with no guarantee and no support when you can get a new one for £999 or ex demos, open box etc with full warranty for £919-£949? Just crazy.
@G Funk There's this NAD T777 - on clearance with full warranty. Only trouble is it's collection only from their Maidstone store:


Sevenoaks also have some Arcam AV20's on clearance - albeit a little over your initial £1500 budget.

Both of these AVR's are considered by many to have better Room Correction (Dirac vs Audessey)... Although I've personally not heard either a NAD or Arcam, so can't comment any further.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Plus Denon not the most cooling running and therefore reliability concerns
 

N1ck

Active Member
Peter Tyson had one open box, never used with 5 years warranty for £919 a couple of weeks ago. I don’t blame people trying it on with their 2nd hand prices but there are some right mugs out there willing to pay them.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Plus Denon not the most cooling running and therefore reliability concerns
Any actual data to back this up? Surely overheating can affect any amp. I've known many a yamaha overheat for example. Such issues are usually easily negated by ensuring adequate ventilation/airflow. A fact that should be followed for any equipment that produces heat.

Fwiw I've had my Denon 4500 in a enclosed cabinet (with lots of space all around it). I use some AC Infinity fans and it runs cool 😎
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Any actual data to back this up? Surely overheating can affect any amp. I've known many a yamaha overheat for example. Such issues are usually easily negated by ensuring adequate ventilation/airflow. A fact that should be followed for any equipment that produces heat.

Fwiw I've had my Denon 4500 in a enclosed cabinet (with lots of space all around it). I use some AC Infinity fans and it runs cool 😎

Would onkyos have hdmi board failure issues if they ran at 25 degrees c?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I’ve had many brands of AV gear over the last 20 years. Denon have consistently been at the top for reliability, hot running or not.
Agreed my 4500 has (touch wood! Lol) has rock hard reliability. (Owned from new).
 
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G Funk

Active Member
Why on earth would you pay £800 for secondhand electronics with no guarantee and no support when you can get a new one for £999 or ex demos, open box etc with full warranty for £919-£949? Just crazy.
Yeah that's a good point actually. Also is £900 still a good price compared to MSRP? The x700 range has been out for a while now. Guess there will be a new generation out this year?
 

N1ck

Active Member
@G Funk There's this NAD T777 - on clearance with full warranty. Only trouble is it's collection only from their Maidstone store:


Sevenoaks also have some Arcam AV20's on clearance - albeit a little over your initial £1500 budget.

Both of these AVR's are considered by many to have better Room Correction (Dirac vs Audessey)... Although I've personally not heard either a NAD or Arcam, so can't comment any further.

I noticed that Nad which appears to be a good price, however I remember auditioning a Nad 758 v3 at Sevenoaks sound and vision in Leeds 2 years ago. Trusting that they set it up correctly, I thought it was very disappointing. I also heard a Denon 6500 at the same time and it sounded considerably better.
Looking at the Nad 777 review on audio science, I wouldn’t buy one, even at a ‘discount’.
 

G Funk

Active Member
I've had 2 Onkyos during the last 20 years and both have died. The Denon has been extremely reliable.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I noticed that Nad which appears to be a good price, however I remember auditioning a Nad 758 v3 at Sevenoaks sound and vision in Leeds 2 years ago. Trusting that they set it up correctly, I thought it was very disappointing. I also heard a Denon 6500 at the same time and it sounded considerably better.
Looking at the Nad 777 review on audio science, I wouldn’t buy one, even at a ‘discount’.
As I said, I've no actual listening experience of any NAD, so your thoughts are interesting. I keep meaning to get a home demo of a Dirac based AVR. If for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity 😊
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
Plus Denon not the most cooling running and therefore reliability concerns
Richer Sounds with their free 6 year warranty on the X3700 don't appear to be concerned that the units are unreliable.

My two year old X8500 has four thermostatically controlled cooling fans sitting below the amp heat sinks. I've never seen them come on even when pushing the AVR hard (albeit my X8500 is sitting in free space on the top of the equipment rack).
 

G Funk

Active Member
@G Funk There's this NAD T777 - on clearance with full warranty. Only trouble is it's collection only from their Maidstone store:


Sevenoaks also have some Arcam AV20's on clearance - albeit a little over your initial £1500 budget.

Both of these AVR's are considered by many to have better Room Correction (Dirac vs Audessey)... Although I've personally not heard either a NAD or Arcam, so can't comment any further.
I can see the one £2k ex demo from Reading. Could stretch if it's gonna change my life!
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Richer Sounds with their free 6 year warranty on the X3700 don't appear to be concerned that the units are unreliable.

My two year old X8500 has four thermostatically controlled cooling fans sitting below the amp heat sinks. I've never seen them come on even when pushing the AVR hard (albeit my X8500 is sitting in free space on the top of the equipment rack).


As we see the peak temperature is 72 degree C (161 F) and this is the heatsink. The junction temperature for the power output transistors will be much higher. And this is with the AVR in "open air" and not in any kind of cabinet. So be careful about amount of airflow.

That's for 6700
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I can see the one £2k ex demo from Reading. Could stretch if it's gonna change my life!
Could ask if you can have one on Home Demo (before committing).*

That's the *only true way of knowing!
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
I can see the one £2k ex demo from Reading. Could stretch if it's gonna change my life!
It used to be the case with Arcam that the front amps are not reassignable. Also they only have 7 power amps. So 7-3 = 4 amps left to run your four atmos and your two surround speakers.

You would thus need another power amp unless you wanted to run two of your atmos speakers using 2 channels of the Rotel and use the Arcam for the front LCR speakers. The NAD T777 is also just 7 amp channels. I remember I discounted Arcam and NAD for that reason when I was buying my X8500 as an all in one box solution.
 
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G Funk

Active Member

G Funk

Active Member
It used to be the case with Arcam that the front amps are not reassignable. Also they only have 7 power amps. So 7-3 = 4 amps left to run your four atmos and your two surround speakers.

You would thus need another power amp unless you wanted to run two of your atmos speakers using 2 channels of the Rotel and use the Arcam for the front LCR speakers. The NAD T777 is also just 7 amp channels. I remember I discounted Arcam and NAD for that reason when I was buying my X8500 as an all in one box solution.
If I can't assign the front 3 that's a showstopper on the Arcam
 

G Funk

Active Member
I suppose what I'm really after is any first hand knowledge of room correction with and without the app and how much of a tangible difference it can make.
 

G Funk

Active Member
As you're not using the front three (power hungry) channels the remainder of the channels aren't really stretched at all. What volume do you normally play at with the X4200?

Personally I'd pay the £999 at Richer Sounds for the X3700 to get the bundled free 6 year warranty.
On the basis that my listening levels are -20 - -15 (peaking at -10) do you think an X3700 will be sufficient?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
On the basis that my listening levels are -20 - -15 (peaking at -10) do you think an X3700 will be sufficient?
I'd say so. I listen at similar volumes and my 4500 isn't that much more powerful.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
For more context. Here's a side by side comparison of a 3700 vs 4700:


And a nice "real world" comparison - done by an AVF member:

 

G Funk

Active Member
For more context. Here's a side by side comparison of a 3700 vs 4700:


And a nice "real world" comparison - done by an AVF member:

Funnily enough I was just using that site to compare 4200 and 3700!

Ah that's a perfect comparison between the 2 of the latest generation. I think I can rule out the 3700 in favour of the 4700 or maybe even the 6700 if the price is right. Much appreciated.
 

N1ck

Active Member
On the basis that my listening levels are -20 - -15 (peaking at -10) do you think an X3700 will be sufficient?
I am currently using an old beat up old Denon 2313 which is happily playing at -5 for movies and that’s with it sat in a cabinet getting hot.
 

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