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Denon System Too "warm"

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Loxor, Sep 25, 2005.

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  1. Loxor

    Loxor
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    I have:

    Denon 2900 dvd
    Denon 2805 reciever
    Chord Carnival Bi wire
    Wharfledale Evo 30 speakers
    Hitachi 5300 42" Plasma
    DVD is connected by scart to tv
    QED componet cable between tv and reciever
    Speakers two feet away from plasma on each side toed in
    carpeted floor not woodfloor

    I dont have a sub as it sounds too warm already LOL
    No centre speaker yet

    Heres the problem:-

    Everything works but sounds sorta too warm and rounded. TV sound and dvd playback is ok But. No dynamics on tv or dvd playback. Sound is hard to describe but doesnt come at you. Just seems to hang round speaker. Very shallow soundstage. I have checked the settings in the reciever and it says its on Large for front speakers The speakers are well and truely burned in. I have tried changing position of speakers. seems to be a flat soundstage. Fron the shopping list of things I would have expected more better than this. I have used the auto calibration a few times and no difference. Everyone seems to thing I should have stuck with my 14" tv LOL I WANT to prove them wrong! :D

    some of the things whizzing through my head:-

    So am I missing a setting.
    Do I need to change the speaker cables. One forum reply said it was down to the chord carnical cables.
    Do I need to get a centre speaker. These speakers sounded great in the shop but flat on my setup
    I have tried to change the dvd player to a cheap £50 Sharp and it still retails a warm flat sound and I know this dvd player pushed out tinny treble
    Change reciever completely to another make

    My own thoughts is that it might be the reciever or a change in speaker cable but the carnival cable was was £100 so its expensive mistake again. When I demoed this in the shop they were amazing. No centre speaker. Nothing more than I have got here.

    Any thoughts on the above would be much appreciated
     
  2. Loxor

    Loxor
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    what makes of componet or Audio cables should I be using? any recommendations?

    any choices for a center speaker too please or I have to stick with Wharfledale?
     
  3. Jase

    Jase
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    Do you have any Surround Speakers at all? If not, then you really could do with some as well as a Centre and a Subwoofer. All speakers should ideally be from the same manufacturer and the same range so you have a tonal match. Not much point in having an AV amp with only two speakers.

    With what you have at the moment. Make sure the Fronts are set to Large and that no other speakers are selected in the main setup menu. Set the Amp to AUTO for the Input Mode and try Pure Direct Mode for all your sources. DVD's should also work in this mode but if not then leave it in Dolby Digital mode.

    More than likely it's down to your room acoustics, room size, layout etc as why the system sounds so different to how it did in the Shop.
     
  4. Cable Monkey

    Cable Monkey
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    1. Without a center speaker your amp is effectively having to downmix multi channel inputs and that could be having a detrimental effect on soundstage.

    2. The Denon is a warm, laid back sounding amp compared to Pioneers for instance (blanket reference). Using other warm sounding components may make this overwhelming.

    3. What is stereo performance like?

    4. How is the DVD connected for sound to the amp?

    5. What is the purpose of the scart?
     
  5. Eddy Boy

    Eddy Boy
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    If you have alot of furnishings in the room curtains, carpets etc they will absorb sound which may result in a more flat sound, in short certain frequencies are absorbed leaving you with the "warm" sounding ones. Compared to the open shop plan with wooden floors, no curtains, therefore giving you more reflections and so a more "live" sound.

    As Cable points out why have SCART connected when you have component, unless you use this when you don't want to turn the amp on.
     
  6. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Additionally, Check to see if you have any compression switched on the 2805.
    I think it's either in the Advanced Play or Option Setup menus. Many players
    also have this option.
     
  7. Loxor

    Loxor
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    First of all Thank you to those who replied. I am working through every offered idea here. But tonight I have managed to persuade my friend to drive 60 mile round trip with his Pioneer Ax5 and suddenly the whole sound stage came back. I plugged in everything the same way as before but by golly it was a big open dynamic sound. I have no idea why. I am truely convinced that I need to change to the Pioneer. I think you hit the nail on the head. Too many warm components. The scart is from the dvd to the tv because I am lazy LOL Ok I promise to do it the component way when I get the pioneer av amp. Sad really as I rather like it. I have checked all the settings as described above and its not set on any compression I can find. As much as I hate to leave the denon brand because I think they really are good, I will be trying to track down a good price on a Pioneer VSX-AX5Ai-S Home Cinema Receiver. Although I only have two front speakers the sound stage bounced out. Playing things like Babylon 5 or any of the star wars/star trek dvds now really come to life. You can feel the atmosphere of the scene come out of the speakers. You can feel a space ship shoot across screen and across both sperakers. Now this is more like it! Sad really but its been bugging me for ages. Just one of those things that if you dont ask then you wil never find out! It has spured me on to find suitable centre speakers. I think the evo 30 range is now discontinued so I will have to start to look now.

    Thank you very much for all your suggestions. You have helped alot.
     
  8. Loxor

    Loxor
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    in the sales room there was wooden floors and open space. the usual sort of thing as I had booked an appointment. At home I have tv in front of bricked up fireplace/chimney breast and loudspeakers in each alcove. Its a biggish room but alot of sofas and curtains which dont help. The Pioneer amp made a huge impact. Everything went more trebly without being razor sharp and it put space in between things and the soundstage leapt out of the speakers. The Evo 30 speakers now sound as exciting as they did in the shop. My friend had a hard time getting his amp back off me. Plugging the denon 2805 back in only proved that its one warm product too many. Sooundstage disappeared. Everything went warm. Oh well off to do some overtime I guess! :D :D


    I would still like to see what system can do with the pioneer reciever, some mains filters / Russ andrews mains cables. The subwoofer and pioneer amp now looks like an option too at a later stage.

    I am so pleased that I know whats wrong. Only thing is listening to the denon while I wait for the pioneer :D
     
  9. Cable Monkey

    Cable Monkey
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    What a friend! :D
    I am trying to think who I would unplug and transport any of my kit for and the list is infinitesimally small!
     
  10. Loxor

    Loxor
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    My friend geoff is worse than me for hifi things. As soon as he heard about my problem he stripped his pioneer out of his. He is the sort of friend who, if you left him alone in the room with a hatpin he would have had the denon 2805 stripped down to tiny bits in seconds without seeing if it at least switched on first LOL . He just cant leave things alone when it comes to hifi/av equipment. :D :D :D
    but without his help I wouldnt have found out the problem so big thanks to him too
     
  11. Jase

    Jase
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    Before you hurl the Denon out, try tweaking it with the Manual EQ and/or the Tone Control settings. Just bear in mind that the Tone Controls can't be used for the Pure Direct/Direct Modes but you can use the EQ for this mode if you enable it in the Setup Menu (Direct Mode Setup). You can adjust the Tone Controls in Stereo Mode. :)
     
  12. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Or even switch the eq out. Originally I only liked the sound with eq in, but since
    (probably because my speakers have run in properly now) I much prefer the eq out! Especially when you think that to get a really good outboard stereo digital eq for mastering costs above £5000 or an additional software of Massenberg eq for TC6000 is £800. So, the quality of eq you are geting in a 3805 really is likely
    to mess with the sound and tho it does cure some problems it also creates some. Although, it's pretty good for the price.

    T.
     
  13. RSD123

    RSD123
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    I have a Denon 3805 and in the past i've had pioneer products and in my experience Denon's sound alot better. On the 3805, at least different settings make it sound alot different.
     
  14. Cable Monkey

    Cable Monkey
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    Problem is that 'better' is a very subjective term in audio. He likes Pioneer, he has a mate who will help him with setup if he needs. That is not such a bad scenario!
     

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